Sports car enthusiast opinions wanted

[UTMB]

I’m still in my honeymoon, but as someone who buys a car and keeps it for 10 years, I don’t have the sheer numerical experience that the other posters have, but I have owned two German cars, so that should make my opinion valid. My first nice car was a 1998 Audi A4 manual. Fun to drive, but from day one it had serious quality problems: speedometer that failed on the way home, cv joint boot breaks that let dirt in and destroyed the joints, burned out info displays, etc. It was a real dog, but like I said, fun to drive and quiet and just nice interior. My 2008 BMW 135i was a no brainer: incredibly fast, “no lag,” much, much, much more nimble than the 335i, great visibility, endless power reserve, nice interior, great tech, but abysmal climate control. Nevertheless, as I started to think about getting a new car this year, I felt sad. Realizing that the Model 3 could perform similarly made me even more sad thinking that the romance with my beloved 135i would eventually end.

My decision to buy the Model 3 was half love of tech, half love for performance. It still amazes me how well this thing handles. And it is insanely quick. I’ve taken co-workers for rides; there is a stereotypical response to acceleration from 0-40. The same applies to 60-75. You pick the range. People put their hands to their chests and say OMG or something similar. I feel the same every time I punch the accelerator. But that’s just a stupid pet trick. Steering, when set on sport mode has the same feel as my 135 did. Cornering at high speeds has about the same body lean as the 135 (reviewers who compared the 135i to the Porsche Cayman picked the Cayman for its lack of lean). Braking in the AWD LR Model 3 is every bit as good. Regen braking takes some acclimation. The day I took ownership the car made me a little queasy.

This car is not just insanely fast, it’s insanely smart. Yes, the GUI can be a little convoluted, but for the number of features, it is actually easy to use.

The sound system is very good but not top notch, and probably not as good as the Model S, but as good as I need.

Charging at home is so completely awesome. Charging at the grocery store in completely awesome. Scheduling a charge to start at 2:00 AM is completely awesome. Getting up at 1:00 AM to unplug your car when you hear a thunderstorm approaching kinda sucks...

I finally have a car with perfect climate control, one that I can precool or preheat without idling a gas engine.

I didn’t buy a car made by sorry-excuses-for-human-beings emissions cheaters who should never get another dime from people who want environmental responsibility from corporations. That includes BMW.

I bought American...FWIW. The car was made in America! Of course, if you dig deep enough, batteries and parts are ultimately sourced from other continents, but when someone give me grief about my pseudo-elite car, that’s my retort: “I bought American. Maybe I should have bought a Kia or a Benz, or a Toyota?”

The Model 3 is a multi-camera dash cam that wakes up when someone approaches it.

Didn’t think that I would care so much about headlights, but the Model 3 gives great road illumination.

Back to my old BMW. Now I’m REALLY regretting not trading in the 135. Its old and needs some work. I don’t feel like driving it, especially on hot days. Could’ve saved money on a trade in and I suppose on sales tax.

Things I don’t like about the Model 3:

Interior isn’t as nice as either of my German cars were.

It’s inexcusable that the rear seat release is in the cabin and not in the trunk itself. That has created a security nightmare for owners, whether they keep things in the trunk or not.

Road noise could be better muted with better insulation.

Rear visibility isn’t as good as I would like.

No blind spot monitor blinkers on the side view mirrors.

Each of my new cars has been the best I’ve ever owned, and each has seemed to be an order of magnitude better than the last. If I’m lucky enough to live another 10 years, my next car is going to be incredible.

 

[Ludalicious]

Not true anymore. Legit suspension gear upgrades, of different varieties, from at least 2 vendors. The UP front and rear spoilers claim to be legit performance enhancement (drag reduction AND downforce), and MPP likely has aero parts in the works too since they have done a body scan. Brakes & wheels obviously, of various real performance impact. MPP has the Party Box for RWD.

<edit>Forgot UP's replacement sway bars. Oh, and Cameron's had a custom wing or something made IIRC. So there is indeed stuff well beyond "lipstick".

To each of their own. Sounds like PEP Boys modifications.

 

[Gpa9504]

I traded my 2016 Jaguar F Type R convertible for the Tesla M3P. I do somewhat miss the obnoxious V8 roar when I punch it. But that’s really about it. The Tesla is one of the funnest cars I’ve had. It. Just. Goes. It’s really quick and acceleration is so sweet.

You do get used to it eventually, then you will realize there is not that much power above 70. But trust me, by the time you hit 70 mph you’ve already made a statement.

I love the interior. Seats are great. Sound system is exceptional. Very nice to carry 4 people. My 8 year old daughter enjoys it. So all in all I have zero regrets on the trade.

 

[CarlK]

Definitely not true. 30-60 is the sweet spot for a performance model 3. At 30mph it's instant pull unlike at 0mph, while still having some time to enjoy the pull before you hit 60 where the car admittedly doesn't compete.

Are you kidding me? Apparently you have never driven one.

You don't beat a BMW M3 on track for not competitive at 60 and above.

https://i.imgur.com/O1EglTZ.jpg

 

[lencap]

You ask an interesting question. I’ll add my thoughts to the many excellent replies. I’m a “senior citizen”, code for “old guy”. I’ve been driving for 50+ years, owned dozens of cars and high performance motorcycles (my avatar is a picture of my MV Agusta Brutale), and in that time lots of things have changed, which may give some perspective. In the 60s Corvettes were the American performance cars, but initially they weren’t as much about pure performance as style. Their brakes were not capable of handling high performance. They were two seaters and had a different approach than European cars. Lots of HP, but handling wasn’t a top priority. For me top end speed and acceleration were fun, but not as much fun as having a good handling car, or a car with character. I favored the Alfa Romeo cars (Spider/GTV6) and Fiat (124 Spider) that had good handling. It was also more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow. I learned to keep momentum through curves, and, I believe, became a better driver as a result.

Over the years lots of things changed - ABS took away the risk of careless braking (especially in tight curves), power steering became commonplace, reducing road feel a bit, and power increased along with handling across the board, regardless of brand. Tire technology grew exponentially making even mediocre cars able to grip the road better than the skill level of most drivers to handle them in aggressive driving situations. I moved into a Porsche and I was in heaven, but truth be told that was a very hard car to drive well, with snap oversteer just a heartbeat away (if you haven’t experienced it consider yourself lucky). With all these changes there was always a group of enthusiasts that called each technological advance “the end of performance cars”, citing the changes as taking away fun and the mechanical connection to the joy of driving.

My love affair with cars continued unabated, and the sound of a high performance engine at red line is indelibly etched in my memory, never failing to bring a smile to my face. But the reality is that for the last two decades, at least, performance cars have changed into something very different from years ago. 500 HP cars are commonplace; ABS, adaptive steering, AWD, dual clutch transmissions, and much more make today’s cars unrecognizable to us old timers. Do many people actually drive at 140MPH, not to mention topping 200MPH? How much of the capabilities of today’s cars do we use driving in everyday situations? What may accelerate the fun of EV cars is that their performance is usable. Anyone can enjoy a quick shiftless run from 30-60 everyday. Same for quick runs on entry ramps. EVs excel at this. And you don’t have to worry about speeding tickets or other related issues - just drive and enjoy every ride. That’s new to most performance drivers, and it may take time to adjust to it, but it will come. My old Alfa could only dream of having 200 HP, but I smiled every time I drove it. And I think that the question you’re really asking -“Is the Tesla fun to drive?”

For me the answer is a big YES, but the experience is very different from an ICE experience, and I believe that’s the biggest adjustment to performance EV driving. Until Tesla came along there were no performance EVs. I owned a Leaf and 2 BMW i3s - they’re not performance cars by any means. Until Tesla showed the way no one knew what a performance EV should be, and that’s what is prompting a re-evaluation of what is a sports car? Some may not be able to make the leap to acceleration without the sound of an ICE at redline. Others will miss a manual transmission (I miss both), but from an objective viewpoint the performance of Tesla’s overall is remarkable. Add to that the unique features of the cars bd I expect as people become more familiar and comfortable with EVs in general, and performance EVs in particular, many will take the plunge. It’s a process, no doubt, but consider how little time has passed since Tesla unleashed “ludicrous mode” and how few of those cars are on the road, and I think we’re off to a good start. Wait until the new Roadster is available - there won’t be anything that can touch its performance envelope. The coming years will turn everything on its head, and do so at a far quicker pace than in the past. It should be a lot of fun to watch, and I hope to see the shift become common and accepted.

 

[phantasms]

I've had several crazy sports cars and have driven tons of spots cars and supercars. I love this car, and it's not even the Performance model. In a perfect world I'd have a raw manual car for the weekend BUT I'm very much getting used to the electric and it would be odd to buy another gas car. I guess I'll have to save up for a Roadster, or a McLaren F1.

Here's a review I wrote for Hagerty on the very subject.

Gearheads can still enjoy the Tesla Model 3

Best,
Gene

 

[caskater47]

I've had my P3D since last September. Previously I drove a 2006 Audi S4. Prior to that was a 2003 Mustang and prior to that was a Porsche 968. All were manual transmission.

While I absolutely love the unbridled throatiness of my S4 I don't miss it 99% of the time. The Tesla may be heavier than any other car I've owned but it feels more nimble and quick around a turns than all the others. It's lightning fast and easily wins in a horsepower race.

As others have pointed out what I liked most about my previous cars, especially the Audi, was the direct driving engagement it provided. The P3D has incredible drive feel. It's even more heightened on a track. I've had one track day with it and am really excited to have more.

Possibly the best part is in saving hundreds of dollars per month in gas. My Audi costs about $90-100 to fill up right now. A full charge of the Tesla at a supercharger is $15.

 

[Abdullahf123]

My Tesla P3D is one of the best car for the price. I own many cars in that price range like the BMW M4 and M3 and Mercedes C63s AMG. The Tesla is a lot of fun due to the fact of instant torque but when it comes to top speed and 60-120 mph is where I like to drive the other ICE cars. The Tesla is insanely fun to drive and going around corners and on the track and it feels as good as my 458. The only thing besides 60-120 mph speed is the noice. Otherwise the Tesla is the amazing car and am planning on buying the Model s P100D

 

[GreenMtnM3]

This is an interesting topic and one I thought about a lot before buying my Dual Motor LR Model 3. My previous cars were an 94 BMW325i (not a lot of power, but really balanced and refined); a 2001 BMW325ix wagon (big disappointment, nose heavy and a maintenance nightmare); a 1999 Miata (just fun!), a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata (even more fun!), a 2011 Subaru WRX (amazing car, did everything well and super fun) and a 2016 Chevy Volt (not so fun, but an impressive package). Other than the Volt, all were manual transmissions. I've also had motorcycles for the past 30 years.

I love my Model 3, and it is likely the best vehicle I've owned. It is certainly the fastest, by any metric I can think of. But it is not the most fun to drive. The Miata or the WRX would win that contest. I think it was Peter Egan that said "It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow." I drive on New England Roads and I drive responsibly. So I'll see 75mph on the highways and under 60 on rural roads. In this mode, the Tesla is never working. It requires almost no skill to 'get the most' out of the Tesla. If you want to be going 50mph, boom, the car is going that fast. Its amazing, and I love it, but it is not 'fun driving' the way I think of it.

If you spend any time on a track, I can see that the M3, parcticularly the P3D may really come into its element. I'm looking forward to getting mine into a track day soon. In that environment, you likely can really make it work. Don't get me wrong, I love my M3, and will happily take it anywhere. But if offered the chance to take a 20 year old Miata over a mountain pass (or my old WRX if it was snowing), and I was just driving to drive, I'd choose one of those cars.

For trips or commuting I'll take the Model 3. When I want to enjoy a twisty drive, I hop on my motorcycle. It gives my my 'fix' of exhaust note and shifting practice.

 

[SleeperService]

Others have posted the 30-50, 50-70, and 70-90 times. The Model 3 AWD, without even P, is stupid fast. 30-70 for example is about 3.2s. The gap between the D and the P begins the narrowing above about 45mph, and by 90mph it is not that big, but that's comparison relative to the rather spritely D.

Dig around here, IIRC there's a drag race between I believe a D and an S3 where the S3 keeps up until 60ish and then the D pulls away.

60-80 of 2.04s (measured by me, on my P3D). Not too shabby... I think the only reason acceleration above 60 mph feels "soft" is because the acceleration from 5-50 is so ferocious. It's still a very quick car anywhere between 0 and 100 mph (in my experience...that said, I do not have the sports car pedigree that many of these fine folks have...just a 2001 Mustang Cobra that I sold when I got married 12 years ago and boring commuter cars/trucks until I got my P3D).

I should probably answer your questions too:
Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)? Not really, no. Thought I would, have said for a long time the only car I would ever buy that DIDN'T have three pedals would be electric...and here I am.

Do you miss the sound? No. My Cobra had long tube headers, off-road x-pipe, and dual mode (FR500) exhaust pressure actuated valved mufflers that sounded AWESOME, but it was also pretty obnoxious for commuting and had a distinctive odor. That said, if I could have a Ferrari 812 SuperFast I might have a different opinion...

Would you recommend having a weekend car? Unless you are going to beat the heck out of it at the track or really want a convertible, no.

What regrets do you have due to your move to electric? None whatsoever.

 

[dcdttu]

Biased suggestion incoming...

Any energy that comes out of an engine that doesn't turn the wheels is wasted energy - including the loud exhaust of ICE cars. Maybe that will help you realize it's not needed. Top Gear even said they preferred the P3D to the M3 due to how quiet it was and how easy you could hear what the tires were doing during spirited driving.

As for a manual, it's not needed in an EV due to how much power electric motors have at nearly any RPM. A gearbox is a crutch to keep an ICE engine in the sweet spot. My last car was a 6 speed manual and, while it was fun to be so involved, it isn't as rewarding as the control I have in my Model 3.

Dump the Blackberry and go for the iPhone. There's a learning curve, but it's unmistakably the future.

 

[Triplett]

60-80 of 2.04s (measured by me, on my P3D). Not too shabby... I think the only reason acceleration above 60 mph feels "soft" is because the acceleration from 5-50 is so ferocious. It's still a very quick car anywhere between 0 and 100 mph (in my experience...that said, I do not have the sports car pedigree that many of these fine folks have...just a 2001 Mustang Cobra that I sold when I got married 12 years ago and boring commuter cars/trucks until I got my P3D).

I should probably answer your questions too:
Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)? Not really, no. Thought I would, have said for a long time the only car I would ever buy that DIDN'T have three pedals would be electric...and here I am.

Do you miss the sound? No. My Cobra had long tube headers, off-road x-pipe, and dual mode (FR500) exhaust pressure actuated valved mufflers that sounded AWESOME, but it was also pretty obnoxious for commuting and had a distinctive odor. That said, if I could have a Ferrari 812 SuperFast I might have a different opinion...

Would you recommend having a weekend car? Unless you are going to beat the heck out of it at the track or really want a convertible, no.

What regrets do you have due to your move to electric? None whatsoever.

Not to shabby at all:

Performance Statistics: 60-80 mph

 

[SleeperService]

Just realized that the 60-80 number I gave above was from before the latest "power boost" the current number is 1.88s. I'm not sure in what world that isn't "quick" (other than true supercars...and even then downshifting and romping on it will eat into their power advantage even at that speed).

 

[SammichLover]

Just realized that the 60-80 number I gave above was from before the latest "power boost" the current number is 1.88s. I'm not sure in what world that isn't "quick" (other than true supercars...and even then downshifting and romping on it will eat into their power advantage even at that speed).

It is really the shifting that kills just about everything else. Be it a standard, an automatic hunting for a gear, or even stuff like manual paddling of BMW's DCT to an extent; By the time they're in the "proper gear" to match up with the engine's best power band and the drivetrain is settled out from the shift I'm about halfway done the speed delta.

 

[SammichLover]

Don't get me wrong, I love my M3, and will happily take it anywhere. But if offered the chance to take a 20 year old Miata over a mountain pass (or my old WRX if it was snowing), and I was just driving to drive, I'd choose one of those cars.

I get the Miata, the Model 3 is roughly the anti-Miata. But the WRX? I so want to get my LR D into snow, and the P on Track Mode even more so.

 

[SVL77]

I've had my P3D for about a month - my first EV. I traded in a 2015 Mercedes S 63 AMG, also own a 2003 SVT Cobra, 2015 GMC Yukon Denali XL 6.2, and a 2017 VW Jetta. My answers:

Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)? Not one bit.
Do you miss the sound? No - The Tesla has a "sound", just very different (but no less addictive).
Would you recommend having a weekend car? Yes
What regrets do you have due to your move to electric? Zero. Only wish the Model 3 power was as quick/fast as the P100D S/X. I like the design and size of the P3D better than S/X, and no way I was going to pay 130k+ for an EV. Just don't like the fact that there are quicker Tesla's.

 

[CarlK]

60-80 of 2.04s (measured by me, on my P3D). Not too shabby... I think the only reason acceleration above 60 mph feels "soft" is because the acceleration from 5-50 is so ferocious. It's still a very quick car anywhere between 0 and 100 mph (in my experience...that said, I do not have the sports car pedigree that many of these fine folks have...just a 2001 Mustang Cobra that I sold when I got married 12 years ago and boring commuter cars/trucks until I got my P3D).

I should probably answer your questions too:
Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)? Not really, no. Thought I would, have said for a long time the only car I would ever buy that DIDN'T have three pedals would be electric...and here I am.

Do you miss the sound? No. My Cobra had long tube headers, off-road x-pipe, and dual mode (FR500) exhaust pressure actuated valved mufflers that sounded AWESOME, but it was also pretty obnoxious for commuting and had a distinctive odor. That said, if I could have a Ferrari 812 SuperFast I might have a different opinion...

Would you recommend having a weekend car? Unless you are going to beat the heck out of it at the track or really want a convertible, no.

What regrets do you have due to your move to electric? None whatsoever.

Another thing people forgot is the in gear rolling 60-80 never represents the real world situation for ICE cars. No one keeps the car at high rpm to be ready for the instant acceleration all the time. That's why many auto magazines will only give top gear ~50-80 number which is the more meaningful number you can use. When you do that most ICE cars will look sluggish compare to the Tesla.

As for engine sound we used to like it only because we subconsciously tied it to performance, the same as the visual que of long hood, large grille or multiple tailpipes that indicates a powerful engine. By time when we get used to the fact that the opposite is true, such of short hood for mid-engine supercars, the perception will change accordingly. It's won't take long for those lawn-mowerish engine noise to sound annoying if not embarrasing. It has already happened to few of us. It will happen to everyone in a few years. You don't need more proof of that than seeing that even Harley Davidson is going electric and without fake engine sounds piped into speakers.

 

[SleeperService]

I get the Miata, the Model 3 is roughly the anti-Miata. But the WRX? I so want to get my LR D into snow, and the P on Track Mode even more so.

I would replace "Miata" with "S2000" but otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[GreenMtnM3]

Surprisingly yes, the WRX was really, really fun to drive. In the summer it was fun, but in the winter it was unbelievable. I've never had a car that let you control a drift so well on snowy roads. I paid $25K for it brand new, it did 0-60 in under 5 seconds, held 4 people, towed a small trailer, never needed any service other than scheduled maintenance, and was a blast to drive. I do miss it from time to time, as you can likely tell. Its only downsides were noise (blindfolded you won't confuse it with a Lexus, much less a Tesla) and the mid 20's MPG. The Tesla is faster by any measurement, and is a FAR better car for covering miles in. But I would not say that it is as 'fun' to drive, just for drivings sake.

The Dual Motor Tesla is a fine machine in the winter, and the traction control algorithms do a great job of ensuring you don't get stuck and even allow some nice throttle-on oversteer in the turns. But you don't have the manual control you have with your right foot in the WRX, and you have another half ton of mass to control through the slide, so it is not quite as playful.

The incredible performance of the Tesla design makes me curious how well the new Roadster will do. I believe Tesla's acceleration and speed claims. If they hit their goals, I believe it will be the fastest production car in the world. On paper it makes everything from Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Mclaren obsolete. But will it engender the same passion for driving? Unless you are on a track (and even on a track you better know what the heck you are doing) it will be hard to get the Roadster to its limits. With ICE supercars, you hear the car working, you feel it, and you even smell it. I predict the Tesla will be amazingly fast and efficient. No fuss, no muss, you will just be going 100mph-150mph, however fast you want. It will likely be faster than the ICE supercars, but unless you are racing, does that matter? I don't know the answer, and I'm not in the market for a Roadster or a Ferrari, but I'm curious to see how it plays out in a few years.

 

[SammichLover]

I'm entirely unsold on not being stoked about getting to drive Track Mode in the snow, forward to about the 6 min mark:

This is the core of my regret of not taking the plunge on the P- when I had the chance, being able to back the nannies off (without going to the eventual 3rd party solution). Though at the time I was ordering there were volumes of things I had no comprehension were going to happen, primarily Track Mode and and the $5K back.