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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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Yes. Your original post said this:



I showed you what the EPA rated consumption was (380 wh/mi) and that is NOT the same as "When projected range = rated range" ;)
Well, OK...
EPA rated consumption from the battery pack. ie, the number that the computer divides the total available energy in the battery pack (not including the anti-bricking buffer at the bottom) by to determine the rated range available.
Is that better?
 
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Very well said. It looks like VT_EE either does not understand or just wants to create confusion.
Unless it's intentional (and he wouldn't do that, would he?) I believe the underlying behavior comes from being often confused. Evidence to that is much earlier in this thread when he was asking what the word degradation even means, and needed someone to define it for him so he wouldn't be confused. I think even after being educated on what the word means he periodically forgets again. That's how this repeating behavior wouldn't be intentional.
 
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You make a valid point, but taking features/range away after the agreed upon price was paid for those features and range without compensation in a sudden and dramatic and unexplained way is not fair to the consumer.

If you bought a phone that had 85GB of memory and 2 years in, the phone manufacturer, out of an abundance of caution and to prolong the life of the phone decided to take away 12GB of that memory, wouldn't you want to be compensated for that reduction? I certainly would.
Actually, I wouldn't want any compensation. The modified phone does not do what I wanted it for. My only remedy is to take it back and find / buy something that does meet my needs.
 
That's the purpose in your phone company downgrading the phone in the first place. They don't want to support your warranty any more and if they can convince you to sell it off they can claim the warranty was only valid for the first owner, or that downgrades in between owners are legal and OK. Tesla is doing exactly this when they claim it is OK to downgrade any used Tesla sold anywhere, whether Tesla owned it or not, when they remove "free supercharging for the life of the car" to save money. And, of course, what has been done to us obviously.
 
Well, OK...
EPA rated consumption from the battery pack. ie, the number that the computer divides the total available energy in the battery pack (not including the anti-bricking buffer at the bottom) by to determine the rated range available.
Is that better?

No, that is not the "EPA rated consumption". What I gave you is. Don't mix the EPA's 380 wh/mi with the rest of your post. That's all ;)

The only EPA numbers are these two:
  • 380 wh/mi
  • 265 miles range
That's it.
 
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Actually, I wouldn't want any compensation. The modified phone does not do what I wanted it for. My only remedy is to take it back and find / buy something that does meet my needs.

Even if the phone manufacturer was still selling that same model of phone without the capping? You REALLY would just throw it away and go buy a new $70,000-$115,000 phone? And not expect that company to provide a reason why some phones need this bandaid and some dont? Sorry, I highly doubt that.
Oh, wait, you said "take it back". Back where? That assumes the manufacturer wants it back and will pay you for it or let you trade it in for a similar non-reduced model. (I think that's called a warranty replacement.) I'm pretty sure all of us affected would LOVE your solution. But, as you can see,nearly 6000 posts in, Tesla is NOT doing that for us. That's the main reason the lawsuit has been filed. To force the company to tell us what is wrong with "our" batteries that needed this reduction as opposed to ALL batteries.
 
Or, Like I suggested... sell them on Ebay for a profit. Removing liability for used packs. Costing little in Tesla time and effort to renew. These will all be used in environmentally suitable applications like home power, ev conversions, etc.
That doesn't do anything positive for us and I seriously doubt Tesla wants to be seen doing that. They aren't going to be able to dodge responsibility anyway if they start catching fire/blowing up.
 
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@Guy V @Droschke @Chaserr

Lets revisit this since you disagree:

@raphy3 said "The quickest thing to do would be to yank the bad modules and remanufacture the battery with the rest of the good modules as one level lower battery, and use it for warranty repairs of vehicles with smaller batteries. So, 75, 70, 60... and even 40"

There are two situations in this overall.

1. the 16th module is bad, leaving 15 good modules
2. Tesla currently uses packs with either 16 modules or 14 modules.

Without having to do crazy logistics and special BMS firmware they have two choices

A. grab a usable module from another pack and replace the 16th module to have 16 total. This is what WK057 said wasn't doable. He said something to the effect that the pack would be out of balance no matter how hard you tried to find a matching module and it'd be right back into the same limited situation very quickly.

B. take out one bad and one good module out and put 2 dummy modules in to convert the pack to a lower capacity. This could be done but turns a 85 pack into a 60 and wouldn't be quick or easy.

So if you look at a list like 85, 75, 70, 60 it won't just step down one place on that list. It'd drop multiple places on the list.

Neither of these are things WK057 does on a regular basis. What he does is swap entire working packs or tear down the pack and sell loose modules for use NOT with a tesla but somewhere else like a home system or a custom conversion of a non Tesla.
"something to the effect" is NOT what he said. If you want to tell us what he said, then quote him, accurately.
 
I charged my 85D to 100% yesterday from a 7kwh ac source over 9 hours.

At 100% the car showed my range as 238 miles, down from 255 prior to the software cap.

When I drove the car, the regen section on the dial showed a limit of (I’m guessing) 15kwh but it felt like the car had virtually no regen and coasted quite easily.

Prior to to the software cap I would still get full regen at my old 90% ( around 235 miles), so Tesla have changed a few parameters in the BMS.

I also see the yellow power limit warning triangle when I floor the accelerator to demand 300kwh from the battery.

This doesn’t seem dependent on range as I’ve seen it at different ranges and during different types of driving. I only ever used to see this in the past when the battery was cold.

And finally in answer to your question, sorry but I don’t have a hard number for the regen limit at 100%.




Same for me and I also noticed a noise of either a compressor or something going on and bring the charge level down quick while standing. They definitely messing with it. They gave me a few miles/range back but making the car work to bring down the state of charge.
 
You think your car has been affected and know how dishonest Tesla has been with the impacted owners, yet you want to buy another car from them?
I would buy another car from Tesla but if it becomes affected like this one I expect to be made whole with it. This pending lawsuit, I believe, will force Tesla to make us whole. Sadly, so far, they have not cooperated in helping their customers with this issue or even communicated by directly informing affected customers of the details.

This legal action hopefully will make it clear to Tesla and other manufacturers that (now and in the future) they cannot do as they please but legally have to abide by some rules/laws that protect the consumer.

My affected car is still better than any other brand out there except other currently non affected Tesla's. I expect Tesla to replace our batteries with ones that are not capped or charge limited.

Even if it takes legal action to get them to do what is fair to consumers, they aren't the first car company to be slapped by the law and they won't be the last.
 
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Sadly, so far, they have not cooperated in helping their customers with this issue or even communicated by directly informing affected customers of the details.
Their latest direct communications are worse than not communicating - now we're being told we are test subjects in an unethically administered test none of us agreed to participate in.
 
That doesn't do anything positive for us and I seriously doubt Tesla wants to be seen doing that. They aren't going to be able to dodge responsibility anyway if they start catching fire/blowing up.

The positive thing for us is it costs Tesla nothing to replace our defective packs. They replace our defective packs, then sell the defective one for a profit.
 
I see the Tesla apologists and unaffected trolls are still trying to take over this thread with misinformation...

We need a hide posts from button.
I also see some Tesla employees are making up yet another BS line about being 'randomly selected for a test'.

Someone PM me when there is REAL news. I want my STOLEN range and charge rate back. Thanks.
(Waits for the normal suspects to show themselves with the Disagree button)
 
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I posted the rated range change in my vehicle because I thought it might provide insight with regard to the discussion on the consumption multiplier.
At this point you've been refuted enough, so this is just piling on, but, no, your post about your model 3 range was not relevant or helpful, and combined with your other posts throughout this thread that either feign confusion or redirect issues into unrelated points (like the model 3 range) I derive, if you're intelligent, that you desire to sow confusion and uncertainty into this thread. Your actual goal seems to be to limit the propagation of damaging information that you hope isn't true, but you end up simply coming off as a defender of the faith. If you actually want to help in some way as you claim, then stop trying to change the subject, redirect points onto unrelated tracks, and stop making naive statements about degredation, etc. Here's an example. You claimed that there was a debate as to whether this was actually degredation or not, since maybe the bms missed it and has just now been corrected. This argument misses the forest for the trees. You somehow present it as a way to make the conversation about degredation and not capping, and thereby move the discussion into a category that you can now use to excuse Tesla with, since someone might say "and degredation isn't covered so case closed". The point people were making during that discussion was not to bicker about degredation vs capping. The point people were making was that even if a faulty bms hid degredation, it's is as bad as capping anyway. So, if you stop raising red herrings and leading the discussion down irrelevant avenues, that would be helpful.

you are moving the goalposts there quite nicely. The quote was "The quickest thing to do would be to yank the bad modules and remanufacture the battery
Ok, so, you're pretty laser focsed on me for a few posts now. Gosh, I appreciate it. Anyway wk said it would be hard to replace modules to keep the battery at the same badge, he didn't say downgrading is not possible or even comment much about it. So you're mixing apples and oranges there a bit. Also, someone else pointed out to you that you missed that an 85 could be downgraded to a 70. Anyway, it doesn't matter, we get your point. It isn't easy. Good to know.
 
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Even if the phone manufacturer was still selling that same model of phone without the capping? You REALLY would just throw it away and go buy a new $70,000-$115,000 phone? And not expect that company to provide a reason why some phones need this bandaid and some dont? Sorry, I highly doubt that.
Oh, wait, you said "take it back". Back where? That assumes the manufacturer wants it back and will pay you for it or let you trade it in for a similar non-reduced model. (I think that's called a warranty replacement.) I'm pretty sure all of us affected would LOVE your solution. But, as you can see,nearly 6000 posts in, Tesla is NOT doing that for us. That's the main reason the lawsuit has been filed. To force the company to tell us what is wrong with "our" batteries that needed this reduction as opposed to ALL batteries.
Taking it back simply means make you WHOLESOME. Full restitution.