Is there any precedent in the Auto Industry where if a part fails UNDER warranty it is replaced by a re--manufactured part instead of a new one? These HV battery failures being addressed by re-manufactured and de-rated (as compared to new) seems weird to me. They would certainly not do that to your 12V battery.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Yes, the industry standard is that they can use a new, or remanufactured, part at their discretion. (As is clearly stated in the warranty.)
For a lot of things like 12v batteries, fuel tanks, suspension components, etc. they really aren't remanufactured, so you get new. For other things like engines and transmissions you almost always get remanufactured. (Sometimes remanufactured is better than new, sometimes it is worse than new.)
altenators, starters, water pumps, 12 volts batteries, power steering pumps can be re- manufactured. Some parts are not such as crank shafts, connecting rods. pistons, drive shafts and ect
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Volt capping is always an attempt to mitigate something wrong inside the cells. "Something wrong inside the cells" is always degradation. Volt capping is because of degradation. Something changed within the cells, that something is not a good thing, hence, degradation, no matter how often your try to pretend otherwise. Bad thing inside cells = degradation.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Good analogy. The ICE had "damage", also known as "degradation", so Chevy artificially limited RPM's to prevent further damage. No, that's not acceptable as a long term solution but it might be acceptable as a short term solution if Chevy didn't have any new engines available to fix your truck.
obviously we know that's not true, but I hope tesle says what you just said. It would be interesting to hear them try and explain fires as degradation.
Degradation is one thing, it doesn't mean "everything bad or wrong"
I did like what I read earlier though, about Tesla selling pre-degraded packs you can pay to un-degrade later. It's funny when we use that word for everything. I set my battery to 90% degradation every day.
Volt capping isn't an attempt to mitigate anything wrong. It's just an artificial limit. Every SR model 3 is sold volt capped new. So we're btx85 75kwh Tesla's, and 60D Tesla's. All taycans and ipaces and etrons are sold volt capped. It's not mitigating failures it's just software. Maybe Tesla is illegally hiding the fact that they mitigated a defect that leads to failure, we don't know. But we will.
Charge gate and Battery gate was initiated due to possible battery pack fires. not degradation
Yes, absolutely a precedent for replacing parts under warranty by re-built part. Nissan did that with their CVT transmissions when they couldn't find the shudder problem. In my case it was a Transmission Control Valve but I had complained about it from the first week I owned the car. Standard response is we can't fix it if we can't reproduce the problem. Finally I just told the dealer that it was staying in the shop until it was fixed and I wouldn't accept any excuse. They found the problem and fixed it.
"Something wrong inside the cells" is always degradation. State the authority for this statement.
Volt capping is because of degradation. According to who?
Bad thing inside cells = degradation. State the authority for this statement.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
well, I have been told not to accept arguments from authority, so lets use a little logic first....
Something wrong inside the cells is a pretty large bucket, it could include temperature or voltage differences across cells or modules. This could be affected or aggravated by many things besides just degradation, like cooling or BMS issues.
No.
"something wrong inside the cells" means defective cells. A degraded cell is not a defective cell. There is a big difference between defect and worn out.
So tired if this. I am no battery expert at all but when I know my car could reach me a certain distance and charge at a certain speed or time and then is drastically changed after a firmware update I'd be a fool not to notice. This thread wouldn't be a thing if this sh*t wasn't happening. So people quit trying to change our minds or say it's normal. There are some guys that know their stuff here and have tracked their cars better than I have an noticed this capped change and not degradation. We all seen minimal/normal degradation within time 5+ years and it was never this drastic. I hope Tesla fixes or comes clean or people sell their stock while it's up because Tesla is going towards dooms day if they don't do the right thing and fix this issue. Which most of us hope it doesn't happen but at this rate **** Tesla and their ****en goal.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Something changed inside the cells, that change was not an improvement. What else would you call something that made things worse if not degradation?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The "authority" is that words have meaning. "Something wrong" is bad, right? If a cell is not as good as new it has degraded. If the compression in an ICE has dropped it has degraded.
See above. Words have meaning. If you don't know the definition of degraded or degradation look it up. I promise you it doesn't mean "everything is perfect".
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
You're misunderstanding. There can be abnormal degradation. Some people seem to be focused on a very narrow definition of degradation which only includes expected gradual capacity loss. Yes, that is normal degradation. This is obviously not that. It's an unforeseen change inside the cells which can lead to faster capacity loss and/or possible fires. To mitigate that Tesla lowered charge voltage, charge rate, and regen rate. Those are artificial imposed limits that Tesla introduced as a short term "fix" for the bad things going on inside the cells, also known as abnormal degradation.
I'm not trying to say this is normal or that what Tesla has done is right.
It would be difficult to find anything logical in anything he said, but if I tried it would have to equal.
Tesla battery fire burns a Tesla to the ground = something went wrong in the battery = DEGRADATION = bingo, Tesla not responsible.
Battery completely fails = something wrong in the battery = DEGRADATION = bingo, Tesla not responsible.
Diagnosis = massive koolaid overdose, causing koolaid stoke = logic seriously damaged.
Even Tesla isn't that delusional.
Well who knows, all I know is my car is not doing what it used to be able to do. Get me farther,charge as fast and hold a charge. I've had my car 5 years so I'm not newbie to EV and don't believe Tesla's bs recommendations to achieve what I used to get no problem.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
You've also misunderstood. I never said Tesla isn't responsible. Read my replies above. They are in fact quite logical.
words DO have meaning. "Degradation" has meaning and it definitely isn't some catch-all Aloha word that means whatever we change it to this minute.
You're using it to mean "defect" or "design flaw" in your context. Defects and design flaws, especially dangerous fire related ones, must be mitigated under the guidance of federal authorities. We are hoping that's not what Tesla is trying to hide. Word confusion is not an effective legal defense for them.
I suggest you listen to what you say. You definitely should look up what degradation is, it's not a catch all word.
Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
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