Sudden Unintended Acceleration

[claudelaval]

1/18/2018, morning 9:05 AM.

I was pulling in to my office parking spot where I parked for 6 years, I let the car slow to roll closer in front of the curb. All of a sudden the car accelerated, got on the curb, hit the office building. The car was still going until I applied the brake. The acceleration point was right before the curb, measuring from the point to the wall is only 7 feet. Tesla said I was on the pedal for a second long, I applied pedal from 0-18%, and quickly applied the brake. If I applied the pedal, I would not be able to apply my brake in a split second. Tesla refused to provide the force given to the pedal and any telegraphy. Tesla said they will not be responsible for any damage and said it is driver's error. I told my car was only 6 week new, I no longer feel safe to drive this vehicle, I request to return the car. Tesla refused. Tesla claimed there is no parts failure and refused to do any failure analysis without even looking at the car and accident pictures.

Tow truck driver told me I was the second brand new Model S he towed the same week. The other lady had the same problem SUA and the car ran into her laundry room, broke the drywall.

What can I do at this point?

This is why I don't trust my Autopilot with some close call I got. We are very far to complete driverless Autopilot glad I didn't pay for fully autonomous AP

 

[claudelaval]

Haha, that's what I was thinking. Unintentional means you still did it!

Uncommanded acceleration would be bad.

About 30some years ago I remember a segment on 60 minutes on CBS about some Audi that accelerate suddenly...nothing is impossible.

 

[claudelaval]

The problem with Tesla is that the cars accelerate so massively. If you make a mistake there's no time to correct it before you're embedded in a wall.

Unfortunately, there's no easy solution. Maybe except only buying slow cars with massive turbo lag.

Wait until some 2012 MS lose enough value for youngsters (read: young driver with baseball cap unpaid down driving a used Honda Civic) to be able to buy one...insurance won't like them so sure...

 

[eye.surgeon]

I had sudden acceleration once in a parking lot but it didn't cause an accident because I caught it quick.

The cause was accidentally engaging the cruise control because the control for that is right next to the directional and it can be accidentally triggered.

A bigger problem I have is that when the service center lends me an older Model S it has the directional and cruise control levers reversed.

I'm not sure what the fix for this is but maybe cruise should not be able to be engaged when you are going under 15-20mph? This is true in all the "normal" cars I've owned.

I'm glad you caught it quick. But you also did it in the first place. Saying your car had sudden acceleration in that scenario is inaccurate. You caused the car to suddenly accelerate. My car suddenly accelerates a lot, right after I press the accelerator pedal.

 

[DarkMatter]

Does the cruise engage at that low of speeds? I have tested it before and seem to recall that it doesn't engage below 18 MPH.

 

[Ampere_90D]

I had a little bit of SUA twice, but I wasn't even in the car! I was summoning the car (S90D AP1) into the garage and the car came to a complete stop with the little "ding I'm done." The car initiated the garage door homelink command and the garage door came to a complete close. I noticed to myself "Huh, the car is still on, no parking brake noise either", then lo and behold the car bolted forward about 4 inches and pushed the water softener into the wall. Thankfully no significant damage, and I'm sure it was some kind of weird sensor glitch each time, but now I definitely stop the car with the key every time I get the finishing ding. (Yes, I reported this to Tesla both times. Yes, both times they said they saw no issue with the car.)

 

[Ollie Jones]

This is a significant downside to the instant low-speed torque available on DC electric motors.

There was simply no way my old Honda Insight first-generation hybrid could have caused much damage by acclerating from a parking speed, commanded or uncommanded, intended or unintended.

If there were some kind of Superchill mode available, with the purpose of limiting torque when the car's moving at parking-lot speeds with static obstructions ahead, I would definitely enable it for everyday use.

My use of the line "Put your heads on the headrests. Hold my beer. Watch this." is always fun, but I don't do it very often. Never with the "hold my beer" part. Mostly I don't need high-g operation.

I still think driver training should teach us to respond to unwanted acceleration by Lift - Move - Push.

• Lift your foot.
• Move it over the brake (to the left)
• Push your foot.

 

[ElectricSteve]

American Tesla’s must be different from european Tesla’s as we don’t have SUA incidents, followed by “let’s blame Tesla” crap over here. Or folks blaming Tesla for screwing up by driving into things and saying that “auto-pilot did it”. We don’t do donkey doo like that either.

Honestly, knock it off, start taking responsability for your actions and stop acting like children.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

American Tesla’s must be different from european Tesla’s as we don’t have SUA incidents, followed by “let’s blame Tesla” crap over here. Or folks blaming Tesla for screwing up by driving into things and saying that “auto-pilot did it”. We don’t do donkey doo like that either.

Honestly, knock it off, start taking responsability for your actions and stop acting like children.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

 

[MP3Mike]

This is a significant downside to the instant low-speed torque available on DC electric motors.

Tesla only uses AC motors.

 

[Electroman]

American Tesla’s must be different from european Tesla’s as we don’t have SUA incidents, followed by “let’s blame Tesla” crap over here. Or folks blaming Tesla for screwing up by driving into things and saying that “auto-pilot did it”. We don’t do donkey doo like that either.

Honestly, knock it off, start taking responsability for your actions and stop acting like children.

Well someone has to say it like it is. High time.

I will see you in Snippiness brother.

 

[Icer]

About 30some years ago I remember a segment on 60 minutes on CBS about some Audi that accelerate suddenly...nothing is impossible.

Claude, that was found to be driver error.
And deception by the media.
The promotion of the story involved some seriously shady biz. by CBS' 60 minutes program.
" "60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a self-styled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump—just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket."

Manufacturing the Audi Scare | Manhattan Institute

Memory of this is likely why so many folks, including me are wary of this story.
We had heard it before, we had been deceived before.
Now, there is an actual record of what happened in the car.
Same result.

People react emotionally, do not realize they are bashing the wrong pedal.

 

[etmax]

1/18/2018, morning 9:05 AM.

I was pulling in to my office parking spot where I parked for 6 years, I let the car slow to roll closer in front of the curb. All of a sudden the car accelerated, got on the curb, hit the office building. The car was still going until I applied the brake. The acceleration point was right before the curb, measuring from the point to the wall is only 7 feet. Tesla said I was on the pedal for a second long, I applied pedal from 0-18%, and quickly applied the brake. If I applied the pedal, I would not be able to apply my brake in a split second. Tesla refused to provide the force given to the pedal and any telegraphy. Tesla said they will not be responsible for any damage and said it is driver's error. I told my car was only 6 week new, I no longer feel safe to drive this vehicle, I request to return the car. Tesla refused. Tesla claimed there is no parts failure and refused to do any failure analysis without even looking at the car and accident pictures.

Tow truck driver told me I was the second brand new Model S he towed the same week. The other lady had the same problem SUA and the car ran into her laundry room, broke the drywall.

What can I do at this point?

I write embedded SW for a living. imagine Tesla has a bug where an errant routine decides to write a new value into the throttle position register/buffer. The car will put that into the telemetry buffer because it can't tell the difference between an actual throttle press and one that was placed there by the ghost in the machine.

Note I am not saying this is the case, or that Tesla has any SW bug that might do such a thing, only that it is a possible avenue should such a bug be present.

Note that there have been millions of kilometres driven in Tesla's in all sorts of conditions and so far nothing has stuck, so I do think it's an extremely remote possibility. You now get chill mode, I would recommend all new users use it for a couple of months until they get used to responsiveness of the vehicle. I've been in reverse instead of forward a few times and pressed on the throttle. Luckily I've responded in the time the car has only travelled a few cm.

 

[fren]

I use two feet when navigating tight spaces. It saves the time it takes to switch pedals. When rock crawling off-road, this is a necessity as well. I know some people feel that 2-foot driving is not as safe, but I disagree and have a lot of experience to back up my opinion. Safely hitching up to a trailer and driving my tractor both require 2-foot driving to be safe as well. In fact, 1-foot driving a tractor isn't even a possibility unless you're a contortionist. Try stopping an ATV or motorcycle with only your throttle hand and you'll soon find yourself maimed or dead too. So why people think a passenger vehicle only requires one foot to drive safely is beyond my comprehension.

1 foot for 2 pedals
2 feet for 3 pedals
thats how it should be done, but mayby u didn t learn well and never drove a non automatic car ?

 

[Electroman]

I write embedded SW for a living. imagine Tesla has a bug where an errant routine decides to write a new value into the throttle position register/buffer. The car will put that into the telemetry buffer because it can't tell the difference between an actual throttle press and one that was placed there by the ghost in the machine.

Yes that is definitely a possibility. However remote, that is the only possibility that i can think of. Errant 'buffer-overrun' code writes a value in 'accelerator pressed' variable, and downstream code logs it and also takes action. So if you look at the logs, everything points to the user pressed the accelerator.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Yes that is definitely a possibility. However remote, that is the only possibility that i can think of. Errant 'buffer-overrun' code writes a value in 'accelerator pressed' variable, and downstream code logs it and also takes action. So if you look at the logs, everything points to the user pressed the accelerator.

As has been mentioned multiple times, there are two sensors. So two values would have to be overwritten erroneously at the same time in a way that is consistent and meaningful. A way more remote possibility. Not going to happen.

 

[Pentium2004]

This is why I don't trust my Autopilot with some close call I got. We are very far to complete driverless Autopilot glad I didn't pay for fully autonomous AP

My garage wall appears as a vehicle so I’m thinking I shouldn’t have a problem with unintended acceleration lol.

 

[richman0841]

I liked the idea of putting a camera where it could see what actually happened (in slo-mo). I also wonder why, with 16,000 similar accidents, no one has found a way to make it nearly impossible to make that error.

 

[ElectricSteve]

Yes that is definitely a possibility. However remote, that is the only possibility that i can think of. Errant 'buffer-overrun' code writes a value in 'accelerator pressed' variable, and downstream code logs it and also takes action. So if you look at the logs, everything points to the user pressed the accelerator.

Yes and European Tesla's must have different software, as that kind of "we must find a way to explain to ourselves why the poor TS had this happen to him" behaviour does not happen anywhere else outside the USA. Plenty of SUA's here on the continent, but always the human driver to blame, who readily admits it. I mixed up D and R once myself. Wrecked my son's bike as a result (2 ton car vs Bike = 1:0).

Here in Switzerland, a local soccer-mom pressed on the go-pedal of her MS, then, pressed it some more as she thought she was pressing the stop-pedal and drove it straight into the concrete wall before here. Kablam !!
She did not even try to blame it on anyone but herself. No "the car did it" baloney. No sorry it was me. I messed up. I'm sorry for damaging your building Sir. I will inform my insurance and i'll take care of it.
It did not even make it to the news (it helps not having media-manure like CNN, FOX or CNBC over here, no media-chopper above you with a sleezeball reporter blowing things totally out of proportion, all for the ratings, all for the money...)

It is a mentality issue. Americans love conspiracies, blaming others, dragging their asses into court over everything. I'll sue i'll sue is the first thing that seems to come to many peoples minds when something happens.
It has become a cultural thing. But it's not normal. Do you know what people in the rest of the world say when they hear/read about this sort of thing? They say "only in America".

I love the USA. Have been there many times, both for business and holiday and the people are so friendly and everything. But folks honestly, don't act like this.

 

[Dr. J]

It is a mentality issue. Americans love conspiracies

The complete history: https://www.amazon.com/Fantasyland-America-Haywire-500-Year-History/dp/1400067219