Summons Fail - Crashed - Body Shop Repair Estimate

[Garlan Garner]

Here's the problem with continuous press.

You need to send a signal to keep the car "pushing".

What if there is a bug where "push" = off, is still registered as ON, anywhere in the firmware, middleware, or application layer.

@voip-ninja and I gonna have to slap a fool if they using UDP instead of TCP for the summon feature.

Dropped packets is catastrophic here versus a telephone call.

Not sure what protocol they use. I trust EAP with my kids in the car, but I have NEVER enabled summon on any of my cars.

Dropped packets won't be catastrophic depending on the cars response to dropped packets.

In other words.....If I haven't received a "stop forward" in 100ms or so after the last packets were "forward"...then Summon will STOP the car immediately. UDP, TCP....doesn't matter.

That would be like me powering off my phone with the forward summon button pressed. Which I did.

 

[run-the-joules]

That’s probably 99 percent of the reason for the fob.

Ehhhhh I think people getting angry about their phone sporadically not working as a key is a bigger factor. I like this car more than I like most of my family, but even I get mad when the phone key spazzes out. This morning, I put something in the trunk, and then the door wouldn't open until I opened the mobile app on the phone. At MOST 4 seconds between these two events.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Get those boxes out of the garage. Make more room for your Tesla

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ehhhhh I think people getting angry about their phone sporadically not working as a key is a bigger factor. I like this car more than I like most of my family, but even I get mad when the phone key spazzes out. This morning, I put something in the trunk, and then the door wouldn't open until I opened the mobile app on the phone. At MOST 4 seconds between these two events.

I disagree. I think people are happy with their phones used as a key.

 

[voip-ninja]

Dropped packets won't be catastrophic depending on the cars response to dropped packets.

In other words.....If I haven't received a "stop forward" in 100ms or so after the last packets were "forward"...then Summon will STOP the car immediately. UDP, TCP....doesn't matter.

That would be like me powering off my phone with the forward summon button pressed. Which I did.

100ms or 1/10 of a second when a car is getting within inches of objects is an enormous delay. When dealing with control of something like a voice or video call, connectionless protocols like UDP can be used since you put timers in that will take actions if the transport is dropped or interrupted. If it takes your phone 1-2 seconds to respond to loss of signaling control and your phone call or video call is borked that is not really a big deal.

If your car is pulling into a tight spot and you are going to use a timer on loss of signal to take an action that might not be enough time.

TCP is specifically designed for connection based control which is what you are doing if you are "controlling" your car via a radio (LTE, WiFi, etc.).

Other manufacturers offer this stuff, but they oftentimes use the fob to do it, I expect they are using proprietary radio control to handle it and the response times to interruptions and such would be pretty much instantaneous.

 

[ngogas]

Sonars should always override the summons connections even if the user has the button hold down.

 

[voip-ninja]

Sonars should always override the summons connections even if the user has the button hold down.

Depends on how accurate the sonars are when you get objects extremely close to them. When I pull out of my garage the rear bumper is only a couple of inches away from the door frame.

If the thought process of Tesla is that the owner can keep moving the car even if it is getting into the red on proximity then they need a better control tether than going all the way out to the internet and looping back down to the car over LTE/4G..... in my opinion anyway.

 

[mswlogo]

Someone on the forum ordered a new front bumper cover and I forget how much but was on the order of $300.00
To his surprise it came pre painted !! This might have been an error. But who knows.

It looks like your damage is limited to the front bumper.

 

[MXWing]

2 is 1 and 1 is none in this case.

It would be low tech but a sticker beacon that Tesla cameras can read would be a good system to help prevent accidents as I’m sure most people summon in and out of the same spots most of the time.

- Ultrasonic
- image recognition
- fob
- vehicle proximity training

The more redundancy the better.

 

[ceekz]

They're big YouTubers. Ie, free publicity for Tesla. Of course they're getting preferential treatment. If you're a big name that gets Tesla great PR, you're getting extra help.

Same thing with Tesloop getting batteries and motors replaced under goodwill so they can report shockingly low maintenance costs.

Summon is for calling your car. Summons is a legal thing you probably want to avoid.

When I try to use Summon, I often receive a failure error because I'm "blocking the sensor". Where is the sensor- on the phone or the car? I'm standing either in front, behind, or beside the car.

 

[voip-ninja]

Someone on the forum ordered a new front bumper cover and I forget how much but was on the order of $300.00
To his surprise it came pre painted !! This might have been an error. But who knows.

It looks like your damage is limited to the front bumper.

If you look at his photos again he has body damage (C pillar?) and window trim damage from where the car hit a grill. Fixing that one area will be well over $1,000.

 

[Garlan Garner]

100ms or 1/10 of a second when a car is getting within inches of objects is an enormous delay. When dealing with control of something like a voice or video call, connectionless protocols like UDP can be used since you put timers in that will take actions if the transport is dropped or interrupted. If it takes your phone 1-2 seconds to respond to loss of signaling control and your phone call or video call is borked that is not really a big deal.

If your car is pulling into a tight spot and you are going to use a timer on loss of signal to take an action that might not be enough time.

TCP is specifically designed for connection based control which is what you are doing if you are "controlling" your car via a radio (LTE, WiFi, etc.).

Other manufacturers offer this stuff, but they oftentimes use the fob to do it, I expect they are using proprietary radio control to handle it and the response times to interruptions and such would be pretty much instantaneous.

You can apply any time that you like. I think you get the point.

 

[voip-ninja]

You can apply any time that you like. I think you get the point.

I do this stuff for a living. TCP > than UDP for this type of application, not TCP >= UDP. Stateful vs stateless protocols are different for a reason.

You want to swim in my pool you should bring bigger flippers.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Summon is for calling your car. Summons is a legal thing you probably want to avoid.

When I try to use Summon, I often receive a failure error because I'm "blocking the sensor". Where is the sensor- on the phone or the car? I'm standing either in front, behind, or beside the car.

I use Summon all of the time.

Its a wonderful "show off" feature.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I do this stuff for a living. TCP > than UDP for this type of application, not TCP >= UDP. Stateful vs stateless protocols are different for a reason.

You want to swim in my pool you should bring bigger flippers.

What?

This is simple stuff. Its not complicated at all. You don't even need small flippers.

I fully understand the uses of the protocols......UDP is just fine....as long as you account for it.

Just like texting.....its udp…...you might get your texts....or you might not - as long as you know that....its all good.
In other words...you shouldn't text a marriage proposal.

 

[MXWing]

Honestly guys.. it’s not remotely a debate that Tesla HAS to use connection oriented protocol.

You can’t fling packets without verifcation given what it is at stake.

If I send stops mixed in with gos, it better catch the stop IN THE RIGHT ORDER.

RTT should be less than 10MS given the damage potential.

 

[JeffK]

Confirmed V9 still sucks at connecting.

 

[run-the-joules]

I disagree. I think people are happy with their phones used as a key.

The people for whom it works all the time? Sure. I am not ok with having to take my phone out of my pocket to get into my car any percentage of the time. The people who are unhappy are the ones who are driving the need for a fob, imo. This is also consistent with the documentation they provided to the FCC.

Don't want a fob? Great, don't bloody buy one. But let's not pretend the phone key is perfect for everyone.

 

[Blikblik]

OP is your car wrapped? If yes, are the sensors?

Was the obstruction in front of the car all one plane, or was the contact point sticking out further than the rest of the wall/obstruction?

I can see the connection loss causing issues, but I would think the car should just stop if it loses connection. Summon aborts for no good reason all the time, so a connection issue certainly ought to stop it.[/QU

OP is your car wrapped? If yes, are the sensors?

Was the obstruction in front of the car all one plane, or was the contact point sticking out further than the rest of the wall/obstruction?

I can see the connection loss causing issues, but I would think the car should just stop if it loses connection. Summon aborts for no good reason all the time, so a connection issue certainly ought to stop it.

Not wrapped. All one plane, just that one box was dense. It stopped every other time.

 

[Blikblik]

Body repair - 2 Gs. Tesla will do the work. Being told 2-3 weeks.