Supercharger for the Roadster (Elon said "No")

[xytor]

You must be new here . Seriously, this has been discussed into the ground in other threads. Roadster Supercharging?

Hi Bonnie,
Yes I'm new here. Thanks for the link :biggrin: I should have searched around...

You could delete my post, but there might be some value in discussing a portable but cheap ad-hoc solution that doesn't even come close to matching the speed of the supercharger when connected to it. Something of a last-resort that is moderately better than a wall outlet.

Although that might be a thread for the Technical sub-forum...

 

[scotty2541]

Hi Bonnie,
Yes I'm new here. Thanks for the link :biggrin: I should have searched around...

You could delete my post, but there might be some value in discussing a portable but cheap ad-hoc solution that doesn't even come close to matching the speed of the supercharger when connected to it. Something of a last-resort that is moderately better than a wall outlet.

Although that might be a thread for the Technical sub-forum...

All I have been asking is that they put the same Roadster charger I have in my garage at the super charger locations. Not rewiring the car, not worrying about AC/DC. Just let me extend my range a bit. After all, just one of them along with those 3,4,5, or 6 bays for the Model S... how difficult could that be to support their first customers. But it's fallen of deaf ears.

Such a good feeling being one of the trail blazers and being left behind.

Why Tesla roadster owners can't charge at new free station - Dallas Business Journal

-Scott

 

[djp]

All I have been asking is that they put the same Roadster charger I have in my garage at the super charger locations. Not rewiring the car, not worrying about AC/DC. Just let me extend my range a bit. After all, just one of them along with those 3,4,5, or 6 bays for the Model S... how difficult could that be to support their first customers. But it's fallen of deaf ears.

Such a good feeling being one of the trail blazers and being left behind.

Why Tesla roadster owners can't charge at new free station - Dallas Business Journal

-Scott

I'd love to see this too, but the Roadster HPC uses a different line voltage than the SuperChargers, which would require another transformer to be installed at the SuperCharger sites. The high install cost is hard to justify considering the small number of Roadsters that might use them on a road trip.

You'd be better off picking up a CAN SR and charging at the Model S HPWCs that are being added as part of Tesla's Destination Charger program.

 

[ecarfan]

IYou'd be better off picking up a CAN SR and charging at the Model S HPWCs that are being added as part of Tesla's Destination Charger program.

I agree, and would add that Roadster owners with the CAN SR can also charge at the growing number of Tesla Service Centers and showrooms with HPWCs.

The CAN SR is awesome!

 

[strider]

All I have been asking is that they put the same Roadster charger I have in my garage at the super charger locations. Not rewiring the car, not worrying about AC/DC. Just let me extend my range a bit. After all, just one of them along with those 3,4,5, or 6 bays for the Model S... how difficult could that be to support their first customers. But it's fallen of deaf ears.

The answer is it would be incredibly difficult and expensive. As djp said, the SC's use a different voltage (commercial 3-phase) and so Tesla would have to bring in an additional and separate 2-phase electrical service. That would be an immense cost for just a handful of Roadsters. And when Model 3 rolls out they will need every one of those bays for Model S, X, and 3 owners. Sacrificing a bay that could SC 15-20 cars for less than 1 Roadster per day doesn't make any sense.

Tesla never promised you free charging when you bought your car. I'm so tired of this "Tesla would be dead without Roadster owners so they owe us wahhh, wahhh, wahhh" mentality. You bought a car, Tesla gave you that car, the transaction is over. It's like Model T owners complaining that Ford doesn't offer a bluetooth audio upgrade for their cars. The only reasons we're getting upgraded battery packs is because Tesla has contractual obligations to owners w/ battery warranties and they can make money selling packs to other owners. Tesla cares about its future customers; that's what they're supposed to care about. That's all any company cares about. They only care about current customers insomuch that they will buy again in the future and are brand advocates to other potential buyers.

All the HPCss I know of in the wild were put there by Roadster owners working with the landowners, often buying the HPCs themselves. If you have a corridor you travel often and need a charger then get a group of owners together and work it out.

 

[PV-EV]

I am definitely NOT in the "please add supercharging" camp. However, the request for an EVSE to support Roadster owners at existing supercharging stations is not incredibly difficult or expensive. No new service is required. All that is required is a 480X208Y transformer and a disconnect (and of course the EVSE), which are an industry standard. It only needs to be about 20KVA to support charging one Roadster. A quick check online finds that the transformer costs about $3000. As an electrician, I would rate installing a new circuit to supply a transformer and a new transformer with disconnect as EASY. Especially if the 480 MDP had a spare breaker space. If this was done in the initial installation of the Supercharger station the extra cost would be minimal.

 

[PokerBroker]

The only reasons we're getting upgraded battery packs is because Tesla has contractual obligations to owners w/ battery warranties and they can make money selling packs to other owners.

According to a little birdie, Tesla initially had zero intentions of making the battery upgrade available to current Roadster owners. When announced, it was simply to demonstrate how far the tech had come in a short time and what they were capable of doing. It only became a commercial opportunity when the Roadster community went nuts over it.

 

[hcsharp]

According to a little birdie, Tesla initially had zero intentions of making the battery upgrade available to current Roadster owners. When announced, it was simply to demonstrate how far the tech had come in a short time and what they were capable of doing. It only became a commercial opportunity when the Roadster community went nuts over it.

Well I guess that shows that little birdies don't always have the right information.

 

[bonnie]

Well I guess that shows that little birdies don't always have the right information.

Agreed! There are a LOT of little birdies chirping different tunes out there.

 

[slcasner]

I am definitely NOT in the "please add supercharging" camp. However, the request for an EVSE to support Roadster owners at existing supercharging stations is not incredibly difficult or expensive. No new service is required. All that is required is a 480X208Y transformer and a disconnect (and of course the EVSE), which are an industry standard. It only needs to be about 20KVA to support charging one Roadster. A quick check online finds that the transformer costs about $3000. As an electrician, I would rate installing a new circuit to supply a transformer and a new transformer with disconnect as EASY. Especially if the 480 MDP had a spare breaker space. If this was done in the initial installation of the Supercharger station the extra cost would be minimal.

What Dan Myggen told me was that the cost of the additional transformer and EVSE was less of an issue than that the contractors doing the Supercharger installation did not normally deal with anything less than 480V -- a matter of different trades -- so other contractors would be required. I don't have any personal knowledge to allow verification of that statement, but since Dan's role was in planning for Supercharger installations, I presume he knew what he was talking about. This conversation was at Laguna Seca after TMC Connect.

 

[PV-EV]

What Dan Myggen told me was that the cost of the additional transformer and EVSE was less of an issue than that the contractors doing the Supercharger installation did not normally deal with anything less than 480V -- a matter of different trades -- so other contractors would be required. I don't have any personal knowledge to allow verification of that statement, but since Dan's role was in planning for Supercharger installations, I presume he knew what he was talking about. This conversation was at Laguna Seca after TMC Connect.

Sounds like a line of BS to me. Journeyman electricians work on both, often in the same day on the same location. Now if it was residential sure, maybe the contractor doesn't do resi. I never heard of a commercial contractor that excluded 208 but then I've only been in the biz for 15 years. This kind of stuff is spec'ed by the engineer. If it gets spec'ed, the contractor builds it.

 

[PV-EV]

Sorry if I sounded snippy. I'm just saying that in my opinion as an electrician the reasons I've heard for why there would be no EVSE for Roadsters at a SC are pretty lame. I'm sure there are reasons, but incredibly difficult and expensive? No. The contractor wouldn't do it? No. More likely I suspect that the engineering firm that designed the SC was not asked to include it and now it is hard to go back and change the design. In a word, paperwork.

 

[TEG]

Personally, I think the reason we have seen so little for Roadster is just financial. There aren't enough Roadsters out there (compared to Model S and future vehicles) for it to help the 'bottom line', and they want to focus on things that can make them money. I think we all can appreciate that the auto business is a tough market and they need to be careful with their investments to increase the likelihood of long term viability.

Typical auto industry practice is to provide the "new good stuff" for the newer models only so that those with older vehicles feel compelled to "upgrade" and buy something new. For Tesla, with only one upgrade path from Roadster, this is a 'hard pill to swallow' since Model S is so different from Roadster, and many Roadster owners wouldn't see it as a natural progression.

(...Captain Obvious was here...)

 

[slcasner]

Providing a clarification here. In post #91, I said:

What Dan Myggen told me was that the cost of the additional transformer and EVSE was less of an issue than that the contractors doing the Supercharger installation did not normally deal with anything less than 480V -- a matter of different trades -- so other contractors would be required. I don't have any personal knowledge to allow verification of that statement, but since Dan's role was in planning for Supercharger installations, I presume he knew what he was talking about. This conversation was at Laguna Seca after TMC Connect.

In posts #92 and #93, PV-EV responded:

Sounds like a line of BS to me. Journeyman electricians work on both, often in the same day on the same location. Now if it was residential sure, maybe the contractor doesn't do resi. I never heard of a commercial contractor that excluded 208 but then I've only been in the biz for 15 years. This kind of stuff is spec'ed by the engineer. If it gets spec'ed, the contractor builds it.

Sorry if I sounded snippy. I'm just saying that in my opinion as an electrician the reasons I've heard for why there would be no EVSE for Roadsters at a SC are pretty lame. I'm sure there are reasons, but incredibly difficult and expensive? No. The contractor wouldn't do it? No. More likely I suspect that the engineering firm that designed the SC was not asked to include it and now it is hard to go back and change the design. In a word, paperwork.

Rather than BS, it was my misunderstanding of the conversation. Dan clarified that the contractors who build Supercharger sites definitely can install level 2 stations, but since they are only working with 480V service for those installs, there's no cost advantage to having things done at the same time. As we've discussed earlier in the thread, it would require a transformer to step down the power feeding the Supercharger unless there is existing 208V or 240V service, but even in that case a long conduit run might be required. Instead, Tesla's preference is to hire a different electrician to install level 2 at location where it makes more sense, say at a hotel or restaurant where travelers would be more comfortable for a longer stay and where they can take advantage of existing 208V service to lower the installed cost per connector.

There is another consideration that had not occurred to me. Dan says that Tesla actively seeks out hotels that are along Supercharger routes but purposely a little ways away from a Supercharger so that if there is a complete blackout at the Supercharger, travelers can at least spend the night somewhere that hopefully is unaffected.

That's all fine, we just need that hotel/restaurant fill-in process to happen at a pace similar to the rate at which the Superchargers are being installed along the Interstate routes.

 

[stevejust]

Well, I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but this was posted after April 1st, and purports to be a shot of a Roadster 3.0 test car at the Fremont factory:

 

[tomsax]

It's no big deal to put a Model S connector on a Roadster to enable charging from a Model S HPC. Roadsters at the Fremont facility with Model S plugs have been known at least as far back as July of 2014. I have a photo of one I took myself while charging there after TMC Connect.

Enabling Supercharging is an entirely different matter.

Note that this photo shows NOTHING that's expected to be on a 3.0 Roadster. Claiming that it's a Roadster 3.0 preview seems like nothing but trolling for publicity for a boring photo.

 

[bonnie]

It's no big deal to put a Model S connector on a Roadster to enable charging from a Model S HPC. Roadsters at the Fremont facility with Model S plugs have been known at least as far back as July of 2014. I have a photo of one I took myself while charging there after TMC Connect.

Enabling Supercharging is an entirely different matter.

Note that this photo shows NOTHING that's expected to be on a 3.0 Roadster. Claiming that it's a Roadster 3.0 preview seems like nothing but trolling for publicity for a boring photo.

Yep. There are a handful of Tesla employee-owned Roadsters that have been upgraded to a Model S port. You can almost always see one charging in Fremont in one of the rows of Level 2 HPWCs over in front of the main employee entrance (to the north of the Superchargers - turn left at the guard shack instead of going straight ahead to the delivery center/superchargers).

Not anything in that photo to indicate a Roadster 3.0. And nothing to indicate anything about supercharging.

 

[scaesare]

Nor does that cable/handle assembly match those on existing superchargers in either gauge or configuration. That's a HPWC cable, not a supercharger cable.

 

[stevejust]

Nor does that cable/handle assembly match those on existing superchargers in either gauge or configuration. That's a HPWC cable, not a supercharger cable.

Yeah, I was thinking the diameter of the cable was more HPWC and less supercharger, but they're pretty close in diameter so it's hard to tell.

I didn't know that there were employee Roadsters with the S plug.

RIP CAN Sr.?

__________________________
Edit: Instagram user who posted photo has confirmed HPWC, not supercharger.

 

[bonnie]

Yeah, I was thinking the diameter of the cable was more HPWC and less supercharger, but they're pretty close in diameter so it's hard to tell.

I didn't know that there were employee Roadsters with the S plug.

RIP CAN Sr.?

__________________________
Edit: Instagram user who posted photo has confirmed HPWC, not supercharger.

I was going to try to finagle getting my Roadster swapped out, but then realized how many Roadster HPCs here on the coast I would not be able to take advantage of, if I did so. With the adapter, I have the best of both worlds. Swapping out the connector just did not make sense.