Supercharger - Issaquah, WA - Gilman Blvd. (permit Feb 2022, 16 V3 stalls)

[MP3Mike]

Probably designed to output to only 2 posts for NEVI compatibility (150kw/stall no sharing). And maybe some type of 800V compatibility built in. We won’t know until we see the data plate and site design.

Nope. Tesla has said that they have three ways to meet the 150kW requirement of NEVI:

• Put fewer than 4 posts per cabinet.
• Add extra cabinets.
• Use software to enforce requirements.

For example in Maine their first NEVI site has 2 cabinets, with 8 posts, but only 5 are NEVI funded. The remaining 3 posts share whatever power is left over. If all 5 NEVI stalls are requesting 150kW, or more, the remaining stalls only have ~20kW to share between them.

Tesla says that they have confirmation that 800v support isn't required.

It sounds like the same plan here. We just don't know how many posts would be NEVI funded. (Is this site even NEVI funded?)

 

[Mrbrock]

Nope. Tesla has said that they have three ways to meet the 150kW requirement of NEVI:

• Put fewer than 4 posts per cabinet.
• Add extra cabinets.
• Use software to enforce requirements.

For example in Maine their first NEVI site has 2 cabinets, with 8 posts, but only 5 are NEVI funded. The remaining 3 posts share whatever power is left over. If all 5 NEVI stalls are requesting 150kW, or more, the remaining stalls only have ~20kW to share between them.

Tesla says that they have confirmation that 800v support isn't required.

It sounds like the same plan here. We just don't know how many posts would be NEVI funded. (Is this site even NEVI funded?)

The plan here as confirmed by site plans is 4 cabinets for 16 stalls so no NEVI.

 

[MP3Mike]

The plan here as confirmed by site plans is 4 cabinets for 16 stalls so no NEVI.

It could still be NEVI. But no more than 10 of the posts could be NEVI funded.

 

[Mrbrock]

It could still be NEVI. But no more than 10 of the posts could be NEVI funded.

Sees worthless to put in 16 stalls if there is no power for the last 6.

 

[MP3Mike]

Sees worthless to put in 16 stalls if there is no power for the last 6.

What you don't get is that every current V3 site is like this, they just don't give 150kW priority to some posts. If every post is connected to a hungry vehicle they would all get ~90kW. The NEVI funded sites just "steal" power from the non-NEVI funded posts to ensure the NEVI funded ones get at least 150kW when demanded. If anything, it could give you a nice queuing method for the next 6 arrivals, but that doesn't really work since someone plugging in to a NEVI funded post once it is vacated would steal the power back. (Maybe which stall is designated as NEVI funded is dynamic and not fixed, based on plug in order...)

Tesla says that it is very rare that you would have more than 10 EVs all at the same time that are empty enough to demand that much power.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768663919403708843

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768669357876363713

I do question that somewhat, as OOS ran into what appeared to be site power limits a couple time on their Coast to Coast run in the Cybertruck. Hopefully, they will monitor this and add cabinets at the sites that hit site power limits frequently. (Assuming that utility supply is available to do such.)

 

[Mrbrock]

What you don't get is that every current V3 site is like this, they just don't give 150kW priority to some posts. If every post is connected to a hungry vehicle they would all get ~90kW. The NEVI funded sites just "steal" power from the non-NEVI funded posts to ensure the NEVI funded ones get at least 150kW when demanded. If anything, it could give you a nice queuing method for the next 6 arrivals, but that doesn't really work since someone plugging in to a NEVI funded post once it is vacated would steal the power back. (Maybe which stall is designated as NEVI funded is dynamic and not fixed, based on plug in order...)

Tesla says that it is very rare that you would have more than 10 EVs all at the same time that are empty enough to demand that much power.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768663919403708843

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768669357876363713

I do question that somewhat, as OOS ran into what appeared to be site power limits a couple time on their Coast to Coast run in the Cybertruck. Hopefully, they will monitor this and add cabinets at the sites that hit site power limits frequently. (Assuming that utility supply is available to do such.)

No, I DO get this. What you seem to be overlooking is the 150kw per port is required whether the vehicle needs 10 or 150. So 10 NEVI stalls need 1500kw available at all times. Hard locked from the rest of the site. So no NEVI stalls in use doesn’t mean 1500kw for remaining 6 stalls. With only 4 cabinets at 387 kVa each, that’s 1548kw total for the site. So that leaves 48kw for 6 stalls. Pointless.

I don’t think Teslas interpretation of using software for NEVI compliance works because how do you designate which stalls were NEVI funded? You can’t say that it’s the first 10 stalls plugged into regardless of physical stall.

 

[MP3Mike]

No, I DO get this. What you seem to be overlooking is the 150kw per port is required whether the vehicle needs 10 or 150. So 10 NEVI stalls need 1500kw available at all times. Hard locked from the rest of the site.

Wrong. The 1500kW can be used for other posts, as long as a vehicle connected to a NEVI funded posts can get the 150kW when they ask for it. Just like that 1500kW can all go to 6 of the NEVI funded posts, at 250kW/post, if the rest of the site is vacant.

It is just like the people that insist that a NEVI funded stall has to be able to deliver 900v. But the clarifications from FHWA say otherwise, and Tesla has confirmation from the states that have granted them funding that their stalls being limited to a maximum of 500v is acceptable.

I don’t think Teslas interpretation of using software for NEVI compliance works because how do you designate which stalls were NEVI funded? You can’t say that it’s the first 10 stalls plugged into regardless of physical stall.

Did you not read the post from a Tesla official, that contained this:

As a result, we've made some adjustments which states and the Feds have been good with up till now.

They have sign-off that their software power management is acceptable.

As for which posts are considered NEVI funded, we don't know. Maybe the first x, or maybe they got permission to dynamically assign them by connection order. (Would seem to be the most reasonable solution to me.)

 

[Poiu]

I checked the location today - no progress - no digging has been done yet.

 

[sdawg]

Here are a few photos to show the latest activity

 

[sdawg]

 

[sdawg]

View attachment 1037881View attachment 1037883View attachment 1037885

 

[Poiu]

More activity today, with a bunch of excavation work done and dirt getting taken away.

There are still 8 Supercharger cabinets on site, but apparently that was a mistake and only 4 will be used on this site, with the other 4 being used elsewhere.

 

[supergeek]

Swung by yesterday. Conduit has been laid in that second trench, and the posts / bases are now on site. Otherwise everything looks about the same. The posts are labeled "Ocelot" which is probably the v4 post codename.

 

[Mrbrock]

Looks like they are outsourced and being made in Canada, not buffalo! If it was just the exterior cabinet for the posts I would expect them to be repackaged once all the internal have been added.

 

[Big Earl]

Looks like they are just a packaging provider. Here is their e-mobility information.

Packaging solutions for the Lib and E-mobility Industry

www.nefab.com

 

[supergeek]

Ah, makes sense. Mississauga is only about an hour and a half drive from Buffalo. Mississauga and the greater Toronto area is considerably closer than any other major metro area. Cleveland and Pittsburg are 3+ hours away, NYC is 6 hours away despite being in NY as well

 

[Mrbrock]

Looks like they are just a packaging provider. Here is their e-mobility information.

Packaging solutions for the Lib and E-mobility Industry

www.nefab.com

My theory is much more interesting . Odd that they leave the Tesla format QR code shipping label on a box that it just packaging when they put the actual charge posts in said packaging.

 

[Mrbrock]

 

[ImScotty]

I stopped by this morning. No new progress has been made to the site since @supergeek's post.

 

[floatplane]

Just to chime in on the NEVI 150kW requirement that was discussed earlier, there is a whole branch of mathematics dealing with sharing limited resources called "trunking". As an engineer for cellphone companies a long time ago (in a galaxy far far away), we'd dimension the number of radios installed based on a certain busy-hour blocking factor. An "Erlang B" calculation would let you figure this out so that only during the daily busy hour (4-5pm typically) a small percentage of call attempts would be blocked. This reduces the capital outlay, as to serve 100% of the traffic becomes prohibitively expensive for little revenue gain.

The same principles can be applied to sharing the power available from these chargers. The probability of more than 10 of 16 posts drawing 150kW at any one time is very low. So the NEVI "rules" may mean they only fund 10 posts, but you'd still put 16 in.