Superchargers in California will be clogged in 12 months, unless?

[CHG-ON]

It is ironic that the Bay Area of CA has so few charging stalls. I mean, it is the heart of Tesla Country right now. Crazy.

The siting of the stations seems very odd to me. Why put one in a San Mateo mall? That just encourages locals charging, when I will bet that at least 50% of those shoppers live in single family homes, where they could charge. Yes, I could be way off. I thought the idea of SCs was to facilitate longer trips. I cannot think of one SC that is near a freeway on the Peninsula. The only one that I know of anywhere in the region is on the East Bay corridor at the factory, which they have thankfully expanded. But that doesn't help those coming up from Central CA after they leave Gilroy and need to take the west route, rather than the traffic trainwreck of the East Bay route.

Before they put in the Petaluma charger, I had to loop down and around San Jose so that I could top off at the factory in order to make it to Santa Rosa. And once I got there, I had to either charge at my sister's (yuk) 110 or search out a kind local gov't fleet lot that was open and would let me charge at L2.

I assume that they have people studying the usage needs. But I am not sure that they are meeting them here. Just look at the number of chargers in Europe and especially Norway. Their coverage is much better than CA. Is this an example of the "cobbler's kids needing new shoes" or what? Sorry for you young folks...!

Thankfully I can charge at home, or I would be screwed.

 

[SFOTurtle]

It is ironic that the Bay Area of CA has so few charging stalls. I mean, it is the heart of Tesla Country right now. Crazy.

The siting of the stations seems very odd to me. Why put one in a San Mateo mall? That just encourages locals charging, when I will bet that at least 50% of those shoppers live in single family homes, where they could charge. Yes, I could be way off. I thought the idea of SCs was to facilitate longer trips. I cannot think of one SC that is near a freeway on the Peninsula. The only one that I know of anywhere in the region is on the East Bay corridor at the factory, which they have thankfully expanded. But that doesn't help those coming up from Central CA after they leave Gilroy and need to take the west route, rather than the traffic trainwreck of the East Bay route.

Before they put in the Petaluma charger, I had to loop down and around San Jose so that I could top off at the factory in order to make it to Santa Rosa. And once I got there, I had to either charge at my sister's (yuk) 110 or search out a kind local gov't fleet lot that was open and would let me charge at L2.

I assume that they have people studying the usage needs. But I am not sure that they are meeting them here. Just look at the number of chargers in Europe and especially Norway. Their coverage is much better than CA. Is this an example of the "cobbler's kids needing new shoes" or what? Sorry for you young folks...!

Thankfully I can charge at home, or I would be screwed.

I think you could use a little refresher on SCs in the SF Bay Area! First, the San Mateo SC is not right in the middle of some big mall off the beaten path. It's maybe only 200 yards, perhaps less, and just a few seconds from 101. There is a Peets and a Whole Foods in this little mixed use area, but definitely not some big shopping mall that's hard to get in and out of. Definitely convenient if you're on 101 and need a quick charge. Second, the Mtn View SC is also just off 101, maybe only 250 yards and maybe 30 seconds from the freeway itself and easily accessible. Third, you're ignoring the Dublin SC at the 580/680 interchange. It is literally next to 580 with the freeway just a few feet away. Manteca is also in a convenient spot. So is Seaside. And now we have Ukiah and others planned for 101 northbound. I personally have never found it easier to get around the entire NorCal area using the SC network.

 

[bredi]

Cheaper home utility rates - why do rates keep going up? Are they a PUBLIC utility or a publicly shared corporate sponge? Seriously, what is a public utility anymore? public-hybrid, pre-historic failure is what they are.

The solution is simple. More charging stations.
Either at home, on the road or at parking stalls/destinations. Plugs. Plugs everywhere!
Tesla has the right strategy, they just need more funding to do it faster.

Solar, Wind
Solar, Wind
Solar, Wind
Not to be confused with solar - winds.


This really is about simple solutions. It just not may be profitable. And apparently, that is the only thing that matters.
(sarcasm, pessimism font?)

 

[Mike K]

The thing that people may not be thinking about is that with a projected range of only 200 miles, the Model 3 is going to have to use superchargers more frequently than Model S/X vehicles do. For example, we can make a round trip to Folsom from the Bay Area with one stop at a supercharger in our P85D. With a Model 3, we'd probably have to make two stops at superchargers.

Another thing to consider is that they'll have smaller batteries which means they'll be charging at a slower rate than the vast majority of Model S's. So more cars, charging slower.

Personally, I think there should be some kind of block on "locals" using SuperChargers. Something like your car won't charge at a SuperCharger if that SuperCharger is within 10 miles of your home. Or maybe Tesla just charges you if you use a SuperCharger within 10 miles of your home.

With all due respect, stating how many times you've been at a supercharger in just two weeks of ownership is a bit silly. I charge at home 95% of the time but I rent a house and I can't put a 240 outlet in. 99% of the time this doesn't matter because I only drive 30 - 40 miles a day which means even at a slow rate of charge I'm generally ending the day with more miles than I started with but if we get back from a road trip I might pull in with 30 or 40 miles and then head to a local supercharger the next day to get some miles. This is not abuse.

 

[Candleflame]

The solution for condos and apartments isn't an expanded DCFC network, it's an expansion of L2 chargers that can be used overnight. There's no technical reason that L2 chargers can't be installed in every condo or apartment's parking structure, or indeed on the street for people who have to park there. L2 charging is cheap, it doesn't make sense to build out expensive fast chargers to handle uses that L2 charging can do just as well. There are real obstacles, but they're political; convincing your apartment/condo management to allow installation of chargers, and the like. I think that will change naturally with time. Right now, managers feel comfortable refusing such requests because there are few EV owners. Once a decent percentage of their potential customer base owns EVs, it'll be something they'll have to accommodate in order to remain competitive.

if you even have onsite parking that is...

 

[BertL]

Personally, I believe SpC will have to be an option with M3. It's gonna be tough to eek out sufficient dollars in a $35K base price to pay for lifetime SpC use.

Let's also not forget, Elon has stated Tesla will turn a profit in 2016. Slowing the SpC build-out reduces cost and implementing only as many SpC as they MUST will improve Tesla's bottom line (no different than Tesla electing to not resolve long outstanding and acknowledged firmware bugs). Elon won't (or can't) go back on his profit statements to Wall Street without major consequences. Given SpC locations cannot be found, procured, permitted and built over-night, action is needed now to avoid increasing problems for all Tesla owners at M3 rollout in any volume -- assuming M3 stays on schedule and ships in any volume at first . It takes what, more than 6 months to go through just the permit-to-availability process on average? Anyway, I bet Tesla is closely managing it and trying to defer as far as they can -- I'm just worried given Tesla's track record, present owners will suffer for some period of time when it comes to the SpC network...

 

[cman8]

This has been a problem for Hong Kong supercharger network for the last 12 months.

During holiday season, I was in line at a 6 stall charger area (largest one we have) and there were 9 cars WAITING while 6 are charging.

This is a big issue for our city as private apartment housings do not allow installation of wall boxes in private stalls even if you own the spot (which is no cheap affair ... my parking stall cost $11,500 USD and that's inexpensive compared to some regions).

YET Tesla Hong Kong keeps increasing superchargers where there are way less demands than the constantly congested stations. Sometimes I don't understand Tesla's methodology as a company and whether they really listen to our demands or if it's just for publicity sake.

Although i feel for you guys, tesla doesnt sell you the car saying that you should use the supercharger network for daily use. They always push you towards home installation. I dont know how it becomes their problem that you cant install a home charger. maybe there will be some type of law as EV become more and more relevant where stall owners have the right to install an outlet.

 

[Xpress]

So many people are discounting the Chevy Bolt and saying the Model 3 has supercharger access which will make the Bolt a failure. Personally it won't matter to me as the replacement to my Volt will be a commuter car with only occasional longer distance trips using a plug-in SUV (with a roof rack) of some sort for the rest of my driving.

The reality of supercharger access on the Model 3 will hopefully soon be revealed but I think a lot of important and reality based points were brought up in this thread.

 

[CHG-ON]

I think you could use a little refresher on SCs in the SF Bay Area! First, the San Mateo SC is not right in the middle of some big mall off the beaten path. It's maybe only 200 yards, perhaps less, and just a few seconds from 101. There is a Peets and a Whole Foods in this little mixed use area, but definitely not some big shopping mall that's hard to get in and out of. Definitely convenient if you're on 101 and need a quick charge. Second, the Mtn View SC is also just off 101, maybe only 250 yards and maybe 30 seconds from the freeway itself and easily accessible. Third, you're ignoring the Dublin SC at the 580/680 interchange. It is literally next to 580 with the freeway just a few feet away. Manteca is also in a convenient spot. So is Seaside. And now we have Ukiah and others planned for 101 northbound. I personally have never found it easier to get around the entire NorCal area using the SC network.

Thanks. You are right about the San Mateo being near the 101. Sorry about that. My understanding is that the San Mateo charge, while near 101, is in the garage of a mall. Thanks for clarifying that. i haven't seen the Mt. View one. My bad. There is also Burlingame. But that's a good 10 min from the freeway. Sunnyvale is a bit of a hike also. I would love to see a charger on the 280/85 side, which is usually the quickest way to get up north quickly, due to the traffic on 101. Yes, The East Bay is well covered. I think the peninsula needs help.

 

[Gizmotoy]

TThere is also Burlingame. But that's a good 10 min from the freeway. Sunnyvale is a bit of a hike also.

I'm pretty sure there's no supercharger in Burlingame or Sunnyvale.

 

[bxr140]

As I've said in other threads about this, and I'll say it again here, if you can't charge at home\work then don't buy the car.

And that is still a short sighted and elitist perspective.

More teslas = more chargers, period. That benefits everyone on the system, AND also furthers Tesla's mission of mass ev adoption.

"Now that I got mine Jack, $&@# you" is an unfortunate, if not somewhat expected response from a few folks who bought a car only [currently] affordable for the affluent and assume they also bought into some level of exclusivity.

 

[jeffro01]

"Now that I got mine Jack, $&@# you" is an unfortunate, if not somewhat expected response from a few folks who bought a car only [currently] affordable for the affluent and assume they also bought into some level of exclusivity.

Not only did I not say that, you keep associating my position with this conclusion which isn't correct or accurate at all. Stop putting words into people's mouths on this issue. I did not buy the car to be in some special exclusivity club, I bought the car because it's an awesome car, and for other reasons that are really none of your business.

Furthermore, more cars do not equal more chargers. I am not sure why you seem to be so sure that's the case but it simply just isn't at all. In fact, the current reality is quite the opposite. More cars are equaling consistent congestion at superchargers which Tesla is not building nearly fast enough to keep up with demand.

So again, if you can't charge at home\work, don't buy the car. I can't be any clearer or more consistent with this position than I am today.

Jeff

 

[CHG-ON]

I'm pretty sure there's no supercharger in Burlingame or Sunnyvale.

The Service Centers have them. Good luck getting in!

 

[SFOTurtle]

The Service Centers have them. Good luck getting in!

Interesting, I had not heard that. I know the Service Centers have a number of HPWCs, but the SC must not be for public consumption. BTW, the Burlingame Service Center is literally right off 101. The back of the Service Center faces 101, and the exit off the freeway is maybe 1/4 mile south of the Service Center. I've used the HPWC there in a pinch with my 60 before the San Mateo Supercharger was opened.

Also one correction -- the San Mateo Supercharger is not tucked underground in a garage. I probably read the same post a long time ago suggesting as such. Nope, they're in the open air and about 150 yards from Whole Foods and Peets.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Interesting, I had not heard that. I know the Service Centers have a number of HPWCs, but the SC must not be for public consumption.

Me neither. I was just there on Monday and they had the usual HPWCs, but nothing that looked like a Supercharger bay. A year or two ago they mentioned they might get one inside the service center for testing. Maybe that happened?

Searching for Supercharger and Sunnyvale on Google comes up with this thread and not much else. Don't see any mention of it in the California Supercharger locations forum, either.

 

[CHG-ON]

Interesting, I had not heard that. I know the Service Centers have a number of HPWCs, but the SC must not be for public consumption. BTW, the Burlingame Service Center is literally right off 101. The back of the Service Center faces 101, and the exit off the freeway is maybe 1/4 mile south of the Service Center. I've used the HPWC there in a pinch with my 60 before the San Mateo Supercharger was opened.

Also one correction -- the San Mateo Supercharger is not tucked underground in a garage. I probably read the same post a long time ago suggesting as such. Nope, they're in the open air and about 150 yards from Whole Foods and Peets.

Yes, Burlingame is right next to the 101. But I found that by the time I got through the lights and all, it seemed like a bit of hassle. Thanks for the clarification on San mateo. Sorry to all for the inaccuracy.

On centers having SCs, I think Burlingame has three right in front. Seaside has 4 right there. And I have to recant my comment about Sunnyvale having them because I can' visualize where they are.It seems like it would be an obvious choice to have Scs at all centers. They certainly have the infrastructure.

So...my original post was pretty darn inaccurate. Sorry about that to all.

But I still want one on the 280 corridor!

 

[trils0n]

On centers having SCs, I think Burlingame has three right in front. Seaside has 4 right there. And I have to recant my comment about Sunnyvale having them because I can' visualize where they are.It seems like it would be an obvious choice to have Scs at all centers. They certainly have the infrastructure.

Burlingame has 4 HPWCs out front for anyone to use. There is a supercharger inside the service area (go inside and look through the glass doors into the service area and you can see it -- for service only)


As to chargers being clogged in CA, the last few times I've been to Gilroy, San Mateo and Mountain View, I have been the only car there. Really depends on when you travel if they are crowded or not.

 

[sorka]

So many people are discounting the Chevy Bolt and saying the Model 3 has supercharger access which will make the Bolt a failure. Personally it won't matter to me as the replacement to my Volt will be a commuter car with only occasional longer distance trips using a plug-in SUV (with a roof rack) of some sort for the rest of my driving.

The reality of supercharger access on the Model 3 will hopefully soon be revealed but I think a lot of important and reality based points were brought up in this thread.

The point is there will be many folks who want to travel long distance in their electric car and the Model 3, for the same price as the Bolt, will give them that option. Even if I were buying an EV for local commuting, which do you think I'd choose if one could be driven across the country NOW vs the other one that CAN'T for the same price?

 

[Xpress]

The point is there will be many folks who want to travel long distance in their electric car and the Model 3, for the same price as the Bolt, will give them that option. Even if I were buying an EV for local commuting, which do you think I'd choose if one could be driven across the country NOW vs the other one that CAN'T for the same price?

"NOW" being the operative word.... as in 2016? ;-)

 

[McRat]

Car - Charger > Charger - Car