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Superchargers open to all other EVs later this year (2021)

Zybane

Member
Oct 22, 2015
377
119
Washington D.C.
1626816208312-png.7552



This is an epically bad decision. Tesla will regret this. This decision is ONLY a negative for all current Tesla owners AND future Tesla owners.

SC network is already unable to keep up with the Y/3's coming onto the road. The SC build out has been way slower than planned. So now Tesla owners have to share those limited spots with Nissan Leaf's and whatever else crap out there?

Alienating Tesla owners is not a good move. There is not a single positive to this decision for Tesla owners.

There are two main reasons why Tesla was ahead of everyone else:

1. Tesla SC network making it relatively easy for Tesla owners to charge on trips.
2. Autopilot/FSD.

Now they've removed one of them. Now I am seriously considering changing my Cybertruck purchase to a Rivian R1S. Since now I can charge the Rivian at SC's and the Rivian has room to sleep/camp in unlike the Cybertruck.

Once the SC change happens, Tesla forums will be flooded with people waiting in line for slow charging non Tesla vehicles taking up spots. You wait and see.
 

DOCAL

Member
May 5, 2016
483
845
San Jose, CA
Now they've removed one of them. Now I am seriously considering changing my Cybertruck purchase to a Rivian R1S. Since now I can charge the Rivian at SC's and the Rivian has room to sleep/camp in unlike the Cybertruck.

Who says you'll be able to charge a Rivian at a supercharger?

Until Tesla lists which countries this applies to, and which other EVs, I think that's quite a leap. Sure, it could be any EV in any country, but it could also be limited to certain countries (those with CCS connectors and legal incentives to open things up), or it could be limited to other manufacturers that have signed an agreement for access.
 
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Zybane

Member
Oct 22, 2015
377
119
Washington D.C.
Who says you'll be able to charge a Rivian at a supercharger?

Until Tesla lists which countries this applies to, and which other EVs, I think that's quite a leap. Sure, it could be any EV in any country, but it could also be limited to certain countries (those with CCS connectors and legal incentives to open things up), or it could be limited to other manufacturers that have signed an agreement for access.

In a later tweet he says the SC network worldwide. Why wouldn't a Rivian be able to charge is he says he's opening it up to other EV's?
 

DOCAL

Member
May 5, 2016
483
845
San Jose, CA
In a later tweet he says the SC network worldwide. Why wouldn't a Rivian be able to charge is he says he's opening it up to other EV's?
He said "Over time, all countries", that's a pretty ambiguous timeline. However, that still doesn't mean it'll be open to all EVs. They might require a manufacturer agreement to help build out the network.

As I said, you're making quite the leap to assume that a Rivian will be able to use the US supercharger network. Maybe it will, but right now I don't think there's enough info to make that claim.
 
Oct 28, 2019
411
431
Texas
I agree that *if* SCs are opened to all other manufacturers - one huge incentive to get a Tesla is going away. The charging network is the *main* reason I drive a Tesla and recommend them over other EVs. You simply cannot roadtrip in Texas/ non-coastal states with ease without SCs.

If Mach E / F150 Lightning / i4 and Co all can use the SCs ... this changes quite a bit.
 

No_ICE

Member
Jul 18, 2021
21
17
SoCal Ventura County
This is a real problem for me. I have a MY on order with delivery at the end of September. The Tesla only superchargers was a big selling point. Here in SoCal this is going to cause big problems as the Tesla chargers are predominate and other options are few and far between. I helped justify the cost of the Tesla figuring I was also paying for the superchargers. If I can use them for another manufacturers EV I just might give up my $100 and look at less expensive EV's. Really put out on this.
 

TracyM

New Member
Jul 22, 2021
1
3
Arizona
1626816208312-png.7552



This is an epically bad decision. Tesla will regret this. This decision is ONLY a negative for all current Tesla owners AND future Tesla owners.

SC network is already unable to keep up with the Y/3's coming onto the road. The SC build out has been way slower than planned. So now Tesla owners have to share those limited spots with Nissan Leaf's and whatever else crap out there?

Alienating Tesla owners is not a good move. There is not a single positive to this decision for Tesla owners.

There are two main reasons why Tesla was ahead of everyone else:

1. Tesla SC network making it relatively easy for Tesla owners to charge on trips.
2. Autopilot/FSD.

Now they've removed one of them. Now I am seriously considering changing my Cybertruck purchase to a Rivian R1S. Since now I can charge the Rivian at SC's and the Rivian has room to sleep/camp in unlike the Cybertruck.

Once the SC change happens, Tesla forums will be flooded with people waiting in line for slow charging non Tesla vehicles taking up spots. You wait and see.
While I can't claim to understand the economics behind this decision, I can state unequivocally, it will lower the value I see in my Tesla. It will also negatively impact my Tesla experience as charging using the super charger network will become less practical and less predictable, maybe to the point of making long trips a thing of the past. I haven't done a lot of long trips, but I've already experienced wait times in excess of 60 mins. These wait times have been the result of a combination of out-of-service chargers and more users. Tesla's sales continue to be strong - meaning more cars on the network. What will opening Tesla's superior charging network to others mean for usage and wait times for those of us who paid for Tesla automobiles? A large part of the decision to spend more on a Tesla is because of the charging capability and experience, it's one of my top 'brags' I give to everyone who asks me "What's it like owning a Tesla?"

Losing that part of my Tesla experience will make me sad. :(
 

srs5694

Active Member
Jan 15, 2019
1,167
1,392
Woonsocket, RI
This is a real problem for me. I have a MY on order with delivery at the end of September. The Tesla only superchargers was a big selling point. Here in SoCal this is going to cause big problems as the Tesla chargers are predominate and other options are few and far between. I helped justify the cost of the Tesla figuring I was also paying for the superchargers. If I can use them for another manufacturers EV I just might give up my $100 and look at less expensive EV's. Really put out on this.
IMHO, many people are reading too much into too little data. AFAIK, all that's publicly known are four things:
  • What's happening in Europe -- Tesla, under pressure from some European nations, is opening its Supercharger network in Europe to non-Tesla vehicles. Even the details of what this means are unclear, though. Also, Europe, including Tesla, has pretty much standardized on CCS2.
  • US compatibility -- Currently, Tesla Superchargers are not physically compatible with non-Tesla EVs in North America. This is a critical difference between Europe and North America.
  • Elon Musk's tweets -- Musk has recently made two extremely vague tweets that are relevant. The first read "that said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year" and the second read "over time, all countries." That second tweet is often de-emphasized in discussions, but it's a caveat that's likely to be very important.
  • Elon Time -- Musk has a history of making public statements about timelines that are, shall we say, optimistic. Some Musk pronouncements have come to nothing at all. (Remember "funding secured?")
The way I see it, Musk probably meant that some or all European Superchargers would be opened to non-Tesla EVs this year. (Whether this timeline will be met is another matter -- see "Elon Time" point above.) Musk's "over time" comment (how much time?) suggests a later opening of Superchargers to non-Tesla EVs. That is, in combination, I interpret Musk as saying that Superchargers in some areas (likely part or all of Europe) will be opened this year, with other continents to follow later. Note also that Musk didn't specify which EVs would be able to use Superchargers, particularly in the US market, which is where most people in this thread are located. As I see it, there are three ways that Tesla could open up the Supercharger network to non-Tesla EVs in North America:
  • Partnerships with Tesla connectors on cars -- There are reports that Aptera is using the Tesla charging connector, at least on prototype vehicles. A deal to give Aptera vehicles access to Superchargers would be sufficient to satisfy the truth value of Musk's two tweets, noted above, for the North American market. This would have minimal impact on Supercharger use. Superchargers would not be flooded with Chevy Bolts or Ford Mustang Mach-Es, and buyers like @No_ICE would have no change in incentive compared to the world of a week ago, since nothing will have changed for them. Similar deals could theoretically happen with other automakers, but I know of no evidence that any such deals are in the works.
  • Sale of adapters -- Tesla could sell (or license others to sell) Tesla-to-CCS1 and/or Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapters, thus enabling drivers of non-Tesla EVs to use Superchargers. Given the price of adapters that go the other way, such adapters would likely cost $400-$600, so I doubt if there'd be a mad rush of non-Tesla EV owners to buy them, although of course some would. There might also be charging-speed limitations.
  • Addition of CCS1 support to Superchargers -- Similar to what Tesla has done in Europe, they could add CCS1 plugs to existing or new Superchargers in the US. This approach would have the greatest potential to bring in non-Tesla vehicles to charge at Supercharger stations. It could also be part of a plan to transition Tesla vehicles onto CCS1 in North America. (I have no evidence that such a plan exists; but if Tesla did plan to transition their cars to use CCS1, they'd need to add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers at some point anyhow.) Note, however, that even if Tesla did add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers, there's no guarantee that all cars would be supported. Tesla might only support cars with Plug-and-Charge capabilities, for instance. There could be similar plans with CHAdeMO, too; but if not, Nissan Leafs and other CHAdeMO-using vehicles would not gain access to Superchargers.
If Tesla has been working on any of these approaches, they could make an official announcement tomorrow; but it could also be months or years before anything comes to fruition. Depending on which -- if any ("funding secured") -- of these things happens, impact on Tesla owners, and benefits to non-Tesla owners, could be minimal.

Also remember that, if non-Tesla access to Superchargers happens, that access will also mean more revenue for Tesla, which will help them to build out the Supercharger network. Thus, although there may be temporary problems caused by increased demand at some stations or at some times, in the long run I doubt if there will be any significant problems for existing Tesla owners. Should Tesla decide to transition its cars to CCS1, then over time capacity issues at busy Superchargers might be reduced, since CCS1-capable Teslas could fast charge at non-Tesla DC fast charger locations.

Anybody who's followed Tesla knows that Teslaworld is chaotic. Elon Musk creates chaos with his tweets, Tesla changes pricing and options as often as many people change their socks, Tesla's growth as a company creates growing pains, the EV industry in general is volatile, etc. This chaos is part of the price of owning a Tesla -- or in some cases of not buying a Tesla. Right now we have very little information on what Tesla is planning with respect to Supercharger support for non-Teslas in North America, which creates a sort of self-created FUD problem for Tesla. "Wait and see" may be a worthwhile attitude for people like @No_ICE who want to buy an EV; however, if Tesla clarifies its plans in a month or two, another issue may arise at that time to create another "wait and see" period. Sooner or later, we consumers just have to make a decision, knowing that we have incomplete information. That's always the case -- it's just more so whenever Tesla is involved.
 

No_ICE

Member
Jul 18, 2021
21
17
SoCal Ventura County
IMHO, many people are reading too much into too little data. AFAIK, all that's publicly known are four things:
  • What's happening in Europe -- Tesla, under pressure from some European nations, is opening its Supercharger network in Europe to non-Tesla vehicles. Even the details of what this means are unclear, though. Also, Europe, including Tesla, has pretty much standardized on CCS2.
  • US compatibility -- Currently, Tesla Superchargers are not physically compatible with non-Tesla EVs in North America. This is a critical difference between Europe and North America.
  • Elon Musk's tweets -- Musk has recently made two extremely vague tweets that are relevant. The first read "that said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year" and the second read "over time, all countries." That second tweet is often de-emphasized in discussions, but it's a caveat that's likely to be very important.
  • Elon Time -- Musk has a history of making public statements about timelines that are, shall we say, optimistic. Some Musk pronouncements have come to nothing at all. (Remember "funding secured?")
The way I see it, Musk probably meant that some or all European Superchargers would be opened to non-Tesla EVs this year. (Whether this timeline will be met is another matter -- see "Elon Time" point above.) Musk's "over time" comment (how much time?) suggests a later opening of Superchargers to non-Tesla EVs. That is, in combination, I interpret Musk as saying that Superchargers in some areas (likely part or all of Europe) will be opened this year, with other continents to follow later. Note also that Musk didn't specify which EVs would be able to use Superchargers, particularly in the US market, which is where most people in this thread are located. As I see it, there are three ways that Tesla could open up the Supercharger network to non-Tesla EVs in North America:
  • Partnerships with Tesla connectors on cars -- There are reports that Aptera is using the Tesla charging connector, at least on prototype vehicles. A deal to give Aptera vehicles access to Superchargers would be sufficient to satisfy the truth value of Musk's two tweets, noted above, for the North American market. This would have minimal impact on Supercharger use. Superchargers would not be flooded with Chevy Bolts or Ford Mustang Mach-Es, and buyers like @No_ICE would have no change in incentive compared to the world of a week ago, since nothing will have changed for them. Similar deals could theoretically happen with other automakers, but I know of no evidence that any such deals are in the works.
  • Sale of adapters -- Tesla could sell (or license others to sell) Tesla-to-CCS1 and/or Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapters, thus enabling drivers of non-Tesla EVs to use Superchargers. Given the price of adapters that go the other way, such adapters would likely cost $400-$600, so I doubt if there'd be a mad rush of non-Tesla EV owners to buy them, although of course some would. There might also be charging-speed limitations.
  • Addition of CCS1 support to Superchargers -- Similar to what Tesla has done in Europe, they could add CCS1 plugs to existing or new Superchargers in the US. This approach would have the greatest potential to bring in non-Tesla vehicles to charge at Supercharger stations. It could also be part of a plan to transition Tesla vehicles onto CCS1 in North America. (I have no evidence that such a plan exists; but if Tesla did plan to transition their cars to use CCS1, they'd need to add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers at some point anyhow.) Note, however, that even if Tesla did add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers, there's no guarantee that all cars would be supported. Tesla might only support cars with Plug-and-Charge capabilities, for instance. There could be similar plans with CHAdeMO, too; but if not, Nissan Leafs and other CHAdeMO-using vehicles would not gain access to Superchargers.
If Tesla has been working on any of these approaches, they could make an official announcement tomorrow; but it could also be months or years before anything comes to fruition. Depending on which -- if any ("funding secured") -- of these things happens, impact on Tesla owners, and benefits to non-Tesla owners, could be minimal.

Also remember that, if non-Tesla access to Superchargers happens, that access will also mean more revenue for Tesla, which will help them to build out the Supercharger network. Thus, although there may be temporary problems caused by increased demand at some stations or at some times, in the long run I doubt if there will be any significant problems for existing Tesla owners. Should Tesla decide to transition its cars to CCS1, then over time capacity issues at busy Superchargers might be reduced, since CCS1-capable Teslas could fast charge at non-Tesla DC fast charger locations.

Anybody who's followed Tesla knows that Teslaworld is chaotic. Elon Musk creates chaos with his tweets, Tesla changes pricing and options as often as many people change their socks, Tesla's growth as a company creates growing pains, the EV industry in general is volatile, etc. This chaos is part of the price of owning a Tesla -- or in some cases of not buying a Tesla. Right now we have very little information on what Tesla is planning with respect to Supercharger support for non-Teslas in North America, which creates a sort of self-created FUD problem for Tesla. "Wait and see" may be a worthwhile attitude for people like @No_ICE who want to buy an EV; however, if Tesla clarifies its plans in a month or two, another issue may arise at that time to create another "wait and see" period. Sooner or later, we consumers just have to make a decision, knowing that we have incomplete information. That's always the case -- it's just more so whenever Tesla is involved.
Thank you!
 

Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,616
2,454
In a galaxy far, far away
This is a real problem for me. I have a MY on order with delivery at the end of September. The Tesla only superchargers was a big selling point. Here in SoCal this is going to cause big problems as the Tesla chargers are predominate and other options are few and far between. I helped justify the cost of the Tesla figuring I was also paying for the superchargers. If I can use them for another manufacturers EV I just might give up my $100 and look at less expensive EV's. Really put out on this.
If you already been waiting in line I imagine that you will not be happy to see some no Tesla EV charging or in front of you...
 

Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,616
2,454
In a galaxy far, far away
IMHO, many people are reading too much into too little data. AFAIK, all that's publicly known are four things:
  • What's happening in Europe -- Tesla, under pressure from some European nations, is opening its Supercharger network in Europe to non-Tesla vehicles. Even the details of what this means are unclear, though. Also, Europe, including Tesla, has pretty much standardized on CCS2.
  • US compatibility -- Currently, Tesla Superchargers are not physically compatible with non-Tesla EVs in North America. This is a critical difference between Europe and North America.
  • Elon Musk's tweets -- Musk has recently made two extremely vague tweets that are relevant. The first read "that said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year" and the second read "over time, all countries." That second tweet is often de-emphasized in discussions, but it's a caveat that's likely to be very important.
  • Elon Time -- Musk has a history of making public statements about timelines that are, shall we say, optimistic. Some Musk pronouncements have come to nothing at all. (Remember "funding secured?")
The way I see it, Musk probably meant that some or all European Superchargers would be opened to non-Tesla EVs this year. (Whether this timeline will be met is another matter -- see "Elon Time" point above.) Musk's "over time" comment (how much time?) suggests a later opening of Superchargers to non-Tesla EVs. That is, in combination, I interpret Musk as saying that Superchargers in some areas (likely part or all of Europe) will be opened this year, with other continents to follow later. Note also that Musk didn't specify which EVs would be able to use Superchargers, particularly in the US market, which is where most people in this thread are located. As I see it, there are three ways that Tesla could open up the Supercharger network to non-Tesla EVs in North America:
  • Partnerships with Tesla connectors on cars -- There are reports that Aptera is using the Tesla charging connector, at least on prototype vehicles. A deal to give Aptera vehicles access to Superchargers would be sufficient to satisfy the truth value of Musk's two tweets, noted above, for the North American market. This would have minimal impact on Supercharger use. Superchargers would not be flooded with Chevy Bolts or Ford Mustang Mach-Es, and buyers like @No_ICE would have no change in incentive compared to the world of a week ago, since nothing will have changed for them. Similar deals could theoretically happen with other automakers, but I know of no evidence that any such deals are in the works.
  • Sale of adapters -- Tesla could sell (or license others to sell) Tesla-to-CCS1 and/or Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapters, thus enabling drivers of non-Tesla EVs to use Superchargers. Given the price of adapters that go the other way, such adapters would likely cost $400-$600, so I doubt if there'd be a mad rush of non-Tesla EV owners to buy them, although of course some would. There might also be charging-speed limitations.
  • Addition of CCS1 support to Superchargers -- Similar to what Tesla has done in Europe, they could add CCS1 plugs to existing or new Superchargers in the US. This approach would have the greatest potential to bring in non-Tesla vehicles to charge at Supercharger stations. It could also be part of a plan to transition Tesla vehicles onto CCS1 in North America. (I have no evidence that such a plan exists; but if Tesla did plan to transition their cars to use CCS1, they'd need to add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers at some point anyhow.) Note, however, that even if Tesla did add CCS1 plugs to Superchargers, there's no guarantee that all cars would be supported. Tesla might only support cars with Plug-and-Charge capabilities, for instance. There could be similar plans with CHAdeMO, too; but if not, Nissan Leafs and other CHAdeMO-using vehicles would not gain access to Superchargers.
If Tesla has been working on any of these approaches, they could make an official announcement tomorrow; but it could also be months or years before anything comes to fruition. Depending on which -- if any ("funding secured") -- of these things happens, impact on Tesla owners, and benefits to non-Tesla owners, could be minimal.

Also remember that, if non-Tesla access to Superchargers happens, that access will also mean more revenue for Tesla, which will help them to build out the Supercharger network. Thus, although there may be temporary problems caused by increased demand at some stations or at some times, in the long run I doubt if there will be any significant problems for existing Tesla owners. Should Tesla decide to transition its cars to CCS1, then over time capacity issues at busy Superchargers might be reduced, since CCS1-capable Teslas could fast charge at non-Tesla DC fast charger locations.

Anybody who's followed Tesla knows that Teslaworld is chaotic. Elon Musk creates chaos with his tweets, Tesla changes pricing and options as often as many people change their socks, Tesla's growth as a company creates growing pains, the EV industry in general is volatile, etc. This chaos is part of the price of owning a Tesla -- or in some cases of not buying a Tesla. Right now we have very little information on what Tesla is planning with respect to Supercharger support for non-Teslas in North America, which creates a sort of self-created FUD problem for Tesla. "Wait and see" may be a worthwhile attitude for people like @No_ICE who want to buy an EV; however, if Tesla clarifies its plans in a month or two, another issue may arise at that time to create another "wait and see" period. Sooner or later, we consumers just have to make a decision, knowing that we have incomplete information. That's always the case -- it's just more so whenever Tesla is involved.
Interesting summary, you could also mention Bollinger Motors's Twitter (8/16)2018), that I believed didn't get any answer :

 
Last edited:

Jazx83

Member
Dec 25, 2020
7
10
Long Island, NY
If you already been waiting in line I imagine that you will not be happy to see some no Tesla EV charging or in front of you...
Especially if Tesla does not make a CCS1 adapter so Tesla Cars can fast DC Charge on other networks. If the adapter is not released for the US market and Tesla opens up the SC Network to others we will be the ones with the most charge restricted cars.
 

Pops M

New Member
Jan 27, 2021
1
0
Dallas, TX
I hope Tesla is considering the possibility of a Model S performance parked next to a Chevy Bolt that explodes burning up everybody at the SC. There was a reason Apple didn't let all chargers work on their devices. We are still in the early stages of EV development and assuming every EV manufacturer is being careful is a leap of faith I'm not comfortable with. Attached is an article from the Dallas Morning News on July 24.
 

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sunfarm

2021M3LR, Blue, 19", FSD
Jun 21, 2021
120
68
Canada
I have second car SUV BMW x5 45E( PEHV). Vehicle super. Before I am waiting my delivery Model 3, I am using this SUV. One day I need a charge and I came on Tesla DESTINATION chargers (16kW) 4 of then got my Tesla- J1772 adaptor and start charging my BMW 3.7 kW 🤣 max what BMW can accept! 17kW battery can full charge 5.5 hours! I just did couple hours and wasn't Tesla owners there, but now I am a Tesla owner and I am understand what will feel Tesla owners see this is situation. Only my 2 cents!!
 
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cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,207
4,261
Central Valley
Tesla could simply sell an adapter for $750 and tack on a 50% surcharge for electricity. That would minimize usage for most people, and it would likely not cause much disruption for us owners.

If not, what would be difficult is that the capacity will have to increase substantially. There are still many locations in remote locations that only have four or six version 2 stalls. Most of us won't want to wait while other cars are charging at lower rates while we pass time in line.

Older cars have had their Supercharging speeds reduced, and this reduction is exacerbated in cooler weather. Until two years ago, an average charge time to go from 15% to 65-70% on an S85 was about 30 minutes, give or take (no sharing.) The SOC+kW equaled about 120. Today, this has been nerfed to 110 in optimum weather; cooler weather or a cold battery results in 95-100. So, the 15%-70% charge takes about 40+ minutes with a warm battery in summer; nearly an hour in cold weather.

If other vehicles cannot sustain even the crippled rates of classic S85s, their charge times will be even longer.
 

TesMY

Tesla enthusiast
Jun 9, 2021
134
135
Seattle
How about setting a different cost of charging for non Tesla vehicles? I think that would be a great plan to help other EVs to charge in times of need. And obviously they need to have the right connectors to charge non Tesla EVs
 
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byeLT4

Member
Feb 16, 2017
767
853
Texas
I can't remember the place(s) but I thought I read about certain locations that denied Tesla charging stations because it wasn't universal. Maybe they will sell an extremely expensive adapter to help fund more chargers (and their bottom line) and then reapply at those locales or look to new ones and have the ability to say 'fast charging for any electric vehicle'? Maybe there is more government money coming for universal EV chargers as well? As competitive as Elon is, I can't for the life of me believe it is to help out other manufacturers, there has to be a good reason.
 
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