Supercharging by Locals/Overcrowded Superchargers in So Cal

[jeffro01]

Total elitist, short sighted, close minded BS.

So it'e elitist that I want people who buy an electric car to be charging it at home? That's elitist now??? Really???

Yikes...

Jeff

 

[jeffro01]

His only reasoning is that he doesn't want to have to wait for a supercharger stall to open up once in a blue moon. That is a selfish, elitist, and wholly counterproductive POV for the future of EVs, teslas included. The only support he gives for his argument is 'well, I got mine Jack, so **** you'. It's a bit like arguing with an trump supporter...but if you don't call out vile, hateful, and divisive rhetoric you might as well be spouting it yourself...

Oh come on... A couple of things...

1. It's not once in a blue moon, not even close. It's a consistent and constant problem here in CA. You're premise that I'm elitist because I expect an open SC stall when I need to visit one while traveling is total BS. It's ridiculous you think that it's elitist to desire not having to wait in a line to use the SC network in the way it was intended, you know, for long distance travel... A local using that spot has no business using it, unless they're simply returning from a long trip and can't quite make it home or have some other instant errand that requires more range than they have. A local who is using it to save on home charging costs (whether directly due to the cost of electricity or indirectly due to the cost of installing the proper infrastructure at home) is abusing the system, there is no argument to that from my POV. People who do that shouldn't be allowed to abuse the system. I do have a bit of a grey area when it comes to condos\apartment\multiunit dwellings, as I realize there are restrictions there that aren't easily overcome but even then, it'd be courteous of you at a minimum to use a SC only outside of peak usage times...

2. Vile, hateful, and divisive rhetoric??? That's quite a stance to take for me simply saying "If you can't\won't charge at home, don't buy the car"... Being melodramatic doesn't help you're position at all, it just makes you look ridiculous. There isn't anything "vile" or "hateful" in my statement. "Divisive"? Maybe, but even that's a stretch...

Yikes...

Jeff

 

[Lloyd]

I don't have a problem with anyone supercharging if they feel they need to. My time is better spent elsewhere than standing at a supercharger for $5.00 of electricity for free. I do have a problem with a car that has completed a charge, crowded or not and taking up a charging space. Tesla should charge for idle time following the completion of a charge for everyone, new owner and old. It should be a requirement and agreement for all owners to continue to use the supercharger infrastructure. JMO

 

[Canuck]

I don't have a problem with anyone supercharging if they feel they need to. My time is better spent elsewhere than standing at a supercharger for $5.00 of electricity for free.

It's never about the money for me. The issue is I am travelling with my wife and kids and we need to get to our destination.

 

[TaoJones]

It's never about the money for me. The issue is I am travelling with my wife and kids and we need to get to our destination.

With 97% of the network wide open, it's obviously not a problem for most.

When transiting the most congested parts of the continent, allowing extra time for traffic both on the road and at SCs is what wise travelers do.

Perhaps you expect locals and those darned truckers to drive at non-peak times on the freeway to accommodate your special needs as well.

Ignoring Tesla's commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE is one thing. But to actively discourage usage of SCs in those areas where more cars are purchased is not only antithetical to Tesla's mission - it's pretty selfish.

The one incontrovertible fact upon which every person in this thread, no matter how bigoted or selfish should agree is that ICEing by our own is the #1 problem facing SC utilization today.

Happily, at least for those who opt for Model 3 prepaid SC usage, there will be idle fees.

Meanwhile, Tesla would do well to educate owners about pairing and exiting the stall when their charge is complete. A simple alert window on the charge screen at the top 3-5% busiest SCs would provide a trackable means of behavioral modification.

No need to persecute the non-garaged nor to pretend that garaged locals as overrunning SCs in SoCal. When people travel 150 miles a day just for work, they're going to top off - at least until they become more seasoned and don't freak out when their charge drops to 12% *gasp* instead of 20% every once in awhile before getting home.

I have no idea what Tesla will do about livery, who can charge up to 3x/day. Their answer in Amsterdam was to build an SC at Schiphol (the airport). When Tesla builds SCs at LAX, John Wayne, SFO, and Lindbergh, you'll know that's their answer on this side of the pond as well. I don't necessarily see that happening. Yet.

 

[Canuck]

Ignoring Tesla's commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE is one thing. But to actively discourage usage of SCs in those areas where more cars are purchased is not only antithetical to Tesla's mission - it's pretty selfish

Please don't call me selfish. Asking people who can charge at home to do so is not selfish, and it's not "antithetical to Tesla's mission". In fact, it's an integral part of Tesla's mission.

no matter how bigoted or selfish

These terms are charged and uncalled for. Please try to be respectful of people who disagree with you.

You make your arguments in such a categorical "matter of fact" manner, as if you know it all. Given that you've been proven wrong, time and time again, I would think you would at least tone it down a bit...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1714477/

 

[CarlitoDoc]

So let me get this straight: Why would you buy a car that you need to "charge" if you do not have a place to "charge it" (i,e; a garage with power)?

 

[ohmman]

So let me get this straight: Why would you buy a car that you need to "charge" if you do not have a place to "charge it" (i,e; a garage with power)?

I suppose for the same reason people buy cars they have to "fill up" without having a filling station in their garage.

But your point is taken - EVs have longer fill periods and there is a shift in thinking for some buyers.

 

[bxr140]

It's not once in a blue moon, not even close. It's a consistent and constant problem here in CA.

Don't do that.

You know very well that I make a distinction between cant and wont, and you know very well my position on people who wont charge at home.

You don't want people to buy teslas if they can't charge at home, and your reasoning is that they make you wait at superchargers. Reality is that the number of people who can't charge at home and also abuse their local supercharger is so infintesimal that you'd be lucky to run into them as frequently as once in a blue moon. As I've said many times before, you're calling out the wrong group of people and in doing so making yourself look selfish and elitist.

I'll thank you to not try and spin my position into something it is not.

 

[CuriousG]

With 97% of the network wide open, it's obviously not a problem for most.

Did you pull this number out of thin air or do you have something that backs up that statement?

 

[TaoJones]

Don't do that.

You know very well that I make a distinction between cant and wont, and you know very well my position on people who wont charge at home.

You don't want people to buy teslas if they can't charge at home, and your reasoning is that they make you wait at superchargers. Reality is that the number of people who can't charge at home and also abuse their local supercharger is so infintesimal that you'd be lucky to run into them as frequently as once in a blue moon. As I've said many times before, you're calling out the wrong group of people and in doing so making yourself look selfish and elitist.

I'll thank you to not try and spin my position into something it is not.

And that right there, folks, is a response that is as impressive as it is accurate.

It may be easy and lazy to try to blame "locals", but much like any simple soundbite, it doesn't usually withstand much scrutiny. Just more fearmongering from the fearful, afraid that they won't get theirs.

From visits to over 150 SCs and ChaDeMo, it's quite clear that ICEing by our own is the biggest threat to the SC network today. And distance users are at least as likely to offend as are locals.

Unnecessary pairing is unhelpful as well.

So if you are still fearful after slogging through this thread, consider being proactive the next time you see unnecessary pairing by doing that owner the favor of polite education. A surprising number of pairers hereabouts have owned their cars for 2 and 3 years. I thank every one of them for leading the way during and after sharing some pairing info. It's always well-received since nobody wants to wait unnecessarily.

Insofar as density and distance are concerned, you can accept Tesla's commitment to both or not. But applying the bigoted views of some in this thread won't get you very far. The sad part is that the last person to recognize bigotry is the bigot themselves.

In the end, Tesla has built the finest charging network on the planet. Have a little confidence that they know how to manage capacity, density, and the challenges that come from having both in close proximity. Expect to see SCs at major border crossings in time as well, supplemented by ChaDeMo.

 

[rfmurphy81]

 

[TaoJones]

Did you pull this number out of thin air or do you have something that backs up that statement?

Sure do.

Hint: Have a look at supercharge.info. Do the math. Review forum posts here and at tesla.com/forum. Then go visit 150 SCs in less than a year and a half and also live in one of the densest areas in the country and evaluate a number of the problem children yourself. Separate reality from fearmongering. Then draw a conclusion. Toyota built an empire upon the concept - it translates loosely as seeing (and thinking) for yourself.

Go see. But don't cherrypick. Especially when the network is less than 50% complete and is 97% underutilized.

Or join in the uneducated witch hunt promulgated by those who don't have anything better to do except to push positions that are completely antithetical to Tesla's mission, let alone positions that are not based in reality or that attempt to sidetrack by dwelling upon the trees rather than the forest.

The one that was particularly rich was the guy who tried to pretend that there was a locals charging problem by posting an image of Tejon or Harris Ranch at the end of a busy holiday weekend. It's fearmongering disguised as bigotry. Plain and simple.

Your choice.

 

[jeffro01]

And that right there, folks, is a response that is as impressive as it is accurate.

It may be easy and lazy to try to blame "locals", but much like any simple soundbite, it doesn't usually withstand much scrutiny. Just more fearmongering from the fearful, afraid that they won't get theirs.

From visits to over 150 SCs and ChaDeMo, it's quite clear that ICEing by our own is the biggest threat to the SC network today. And distance users are at least as likely to offend as are locals.

Unnecessary pairing is unhelpful as well.

So if you are still fearful after slogging through this thread, consider being proactive the next time you see unnecessary pairing by doing that owner the favor of polite education. A surprising number of pairers hereabouts have owned their cars for 2 and 3 years. I thank every one of them for leading the way during and after sharing some pairing info. It's always well-received since nobody wants to wait unnecessarily.

Insofar as density and distance are concerned, you can accept Tesla's commitment to both or not. But applying the bigoted views of some in this thread won't get you very far. The sad part is that the last person to recognize bigotry is the bigot themselves.

In the end, Tesla has built the finest charging network on the planet. Have a little confidence that they know how to manage capacity, density, and the challenges that come from having both in close proximity. Expect to see SCs at major border crossings in time as well, supplemented by ChaDeMo.

Stop using words you don't understand and are not applicable to this discussion, especially the word "bigot". Trying to bully others around who don't share your utopian view of the world isn't going to win you any brownie points. Furthermore, if you're going to be a bully then at least do so in a grown up fashion and have the decency to address people directly.

So long as you and 'bxr140' continue to insist that there is no issue with locals abusing SC access, especially in CA, then I'm going to continue to push back. I live in reality, and I travel in CA, and I talk to people at SC stations when I do and to date I haven't been to an urban SC that I haven't encountered a local abusing their SC privileges at least once. When there are lines and I'm waiting, even encountering one, is one too many. I've been called an elitist, and now a bigot, simply for having the belief that if you can't\won't charge at home than you shouldn't buy the car. I realize your time may not be valuable and that you've decided on your own that Tesla loves people abusing their SC privileges, but I don't think either of you (TaoJones, bxr140) represent reality.

Your cavalier approach to the english language is disrespectful and disappointing but I suppose you get a better response when you use certain words. It doesn't make your position any more valid or improve your argument in any way, but it's the easy way out.

I can only form opinions or positions based on what I directly experience and see and I can assure you, in CA, as it pertains to urban SC stations there most certainly is a problem with locals abusing their SC privileges. I didn't make this up in my head, I'm not imagining this, I am actually experiencing it. Making up BS statistics that factor in the rest of the country\world in a effort to skew your results is disingenuous but I suspect you couldn't care less. Are there other factors at play here, include ICE'ing by our own? Absolutely but that's not what this discussion is about, but again, straw man arguments are a popular tactic these days.

Jeff

 

[CuriousG]

Hint: Have a look at supercharge.info. Do the math. Review forum posts here and at tesla.com/forum. Then go visit 150 SCs in less than a year and a half and also live in one of the densest areas in the country and evaluate a number of the problem children yourself. Separate reality from fearmongering. Then draw a conclusion. Toyota built an empire upon the concept - it translates loosely as seeing (and thinking) for yourself.

Go see. But don't cherrypick. Especially when the network is less than 50% complete and is 97% underutilized.

Supercharge.info doesn't have any stats. They only provide permits and construction sites in addition to the same information that Tesla.com has. I have no doubt the majority of SuperCharger sites are underutilized but you're basing your numbers on your own empirical data. A sampling of one person hardly constitutes the hard number you state of 97%. The fact is only Tesla has the true number and have yet to share that information.

 

[987S4]

Won't this start getting solved as the Superchargers go PPU? I'd even be happy if Tesla removed the unlimited supercharging option and opted for PPU for all non-grandfathered Teslas. As long as they charge a rate that's a little higher than utility, the incentive to for locals to charge will disappear slowly.

 

[TaoJones]

Supercharge.info doesn't have any stats. They only provide permits and construction sites in addition to the same information that Tesla.com has. I have no doubt the majority of SuperCharger sites are underutilized but you're basing your numbers on your own empirical data. A sampling of one person hardly constitutes the hard number you state of 97%. The fact is only Tesla has the true number and have yet to share that information.

Yes, if you don't have the ability to do your own research, you'll have to wait for it to be given to you.

Supercharge.info, if you know what to look for, is just fine. But you'll also have to know which SCs are subject to congestion.

Best to wait for Tesla to tell you.

 

[jeffro01]

Yes, if you don't have the ability to do your own research, you'll have to wait for it to be given to you.

Supercharge.info, if you know what to look for, is just fine. But you'll also have to know which SCs are subject to congestion.

Best to wait for Tesla to tell you.

Are you always this condescending...??? Exactly how do you know which SCs are subject to congestion? Please, share with the world just how you did your own research, where your data came from, and how it's accuracy was validated. I suspect you won't, because you can't.

You really are a piece of work... Insulting, condescending, and lacking of any understanding of the english language and what words mean with relation to context...

Jeff

 

[bkp_duke]

After flying back into San Diego today I had to stop by the SpC to charge enough to get home. When I pulled up, There were 5 cars parked with no one in them, 5 with people waiting in them, and myself and another gentlemen took the last two slots. I had to charge for 50 min, and in that time not a single one of the cars parked with no drivers had someone show up and vacate the spot.

These drivers were ICEing the slots, and using them for convenient parking. I even recognized some of the cars and plate numbers from the past time or two I stopped at this SpC. Effectively, this reduced the SpC to a 4-6 slot station.

 

[CuriousG]

Supercharge.info, if you know what to look for, is just fine. But you'll also have to know which SCs are subject to congestion.

According to you, congestion at SuperChargers are a myth so in essence there is nothing to see. The thought that someone should question your perceived flawless evidence of 97% underutilized SuperChargers convinces me more that you pulled that figure out of your ass.