Supercharging pain in rear

[oktane]

You guys have some wonderful advice overall but no need to defend Tesla. From your own admission this is a known problem, I'm guessing for a long time. Tesla is on the cutting edge but it seems the infrastructure is 2 years behind what is needed to make this car a practical replacement for ICE. None of us on this forum are ignorant or we couldn't afford this car. Of course there are positives with the car, which I am not disputing.

I had a lot of resistance recently from the girlfriend for getting a nerd car even though I had wanted one for about 3 years. I couldn't defend my decision much in Burbank when she said "we are never taking a road trip in your Tesla again."

I can't say I blame her. It's not really fun for non-nerds to be at a supercharger station. I will just use it locally for now and pick up a nice luxury SUV for road trips.

 

[deonb]

Good to know. However sounds like a serious design flaw. All stalls need to be upgraded and more added in these areas before fining consumers. That's the obvious solution but not the cheapest.

It would never make sense to upgrade ALL of the stalls.

The far majority of time when Teslas are charging, they are in tapered mode and they're limited by battery chemistry and not SuperCharger speed. So for very very little extra money (like < 5% extra), Tesla attaches a second charge cable to the same charger and give the remainder of the capacity to another vehicle. It's better than having the second vehicle just wait in the parking lot - at least when the first one starts tapering down the second one would automatically kick in and start charging fast - all of that while you go eat or whatever instead of waiting on the lot until a stall opens up.

Of course it always makes sense to have MORE stalls. Burbank has 6 Superchargers, so really it's 3 chargers with 6 ports. If that's too few, ok - upgrade it and make it 10 chargers. But then, for about the same amount of money they can either have 10 ports that all charge quickly, or have 20 ports, where 10 of them charge quickly.

2x ports where x charges quickly would almost always win over just having x ports where x charges quickly - except in places where Tesla has to pay for land (almost never).


I do give you that Tesla does a VERY bad job in communicating this, and informing you which charger will charge the quickest. If only there was some sort of device in the car that they could use to show you this...

 

[oktane]

That makes sense. Surprised there is no real-time information about vacancy such as on the PlugShare app. It would make sense to know if there were 3-4 people in line so I can plan accordingly and not drive there.

 

[deonb]

That makes sense. Surprised there is no real-time information about vacancy such as on the PlugShare app. It would make sense to know if there were 3-4 people in line so I can plan accordingly and not drive there.

100% agree.

And Tesla CAN actually know how many people are in line and waiting - unlike PlugShare.

This is one of those no-brainer things that would cost them ~ $3m to develop and effectively double the value of the existing SuperChargers. I think however they always figure 'well for $3m why not just add 10 more SuperCharger sites - even more valuable'. At some point however global upgrades like this that covers the entire network would start to make more sense than just rolling out more localized SuperChargers.

 

[oktane]

Complete non sequitur. Besides, you provide an obvious counterexample.

Your use of Latin makes you sound really smart on the Internet I'm sure your mother would be proud of you.

 

[3Victoria]

Latin is just part of a good vocabulary, as is french, german, ... some phrases are part of english.


I agree that a better reporting of SC status, including number waiting, would be a real benefit to the roaming Teslas.

 

[JRMW]

Just wait until the model 3 hits

 

[Sonny Daze]

Just wait until the model 3 hits

"They'e're coming to get you Barbara"

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

You guys have some wonderful advice overall but no need to defend Tesla. From your own admission this is a known problem, I'm guessing for a long time. Tesla is on the cutting edge but it seems the infrastructure is 2 years behind what is needed to make this car a practical replacement for ICE. None of us on this forum are ignorant or we couldn't afford this car. Of course there are positives with the car, which I am not disputing.

I had a lot of resistance recently from the girlfriend for getting a nerd car even though I had wanted one for about 3 years. I couldn't defend my decision much in Burbank when she said "we are never taking a road trip in your Tesla again."

I can't say I blame her. It's not really fun for non-nerds to be at a supercharger station. I will just use it locally for now and pick up a nice luxury SUV for road trips.

If she's this unsupportive of your dreams and desires right now, do yourself a favor and don't make her your wife. Also, keep your heated seats set on high. Is excessive heated seat use good for guys "children"?

 

[Uncle Paul]

This whole supercharger thing really makes sense and is pretty organic.

Due to human nature there will NEVER be enough FREE supercharger capacity. When ever something is free, self-absorbed consumers will tend to become very creative in sucking it dry.

Lots of incidents of Tesla owners driving over to a local Supercharger to top off, instead of using their own home plug in to get their juice. If you need to pay even a few dollars, the incentive to clog up the free Supercharger is pretty compelling.

The program worked out pretty well, with just a few Tesla on the road, and only a few Supercharger facilities located far away from urban centers, however with additional Superchargers, located in city centers available, owners tended to take advantages of their free juice and take as much as they could.

When this became more of a problem, Tesla adapted, and is adopting new strategies to reduce the freeloading, and encourage spaces to be left empty for the long distance travelers.

As an example, at the Qualcomm charging site, I often see Tesla filling up, with commercial markings on their cars. These are local limo services topping off between shuttling exectives to the airport. Good for them, but screws the travelers wanting to get enough juice to drive back to LA. They tend to space themselves out to take every other stall, making the next traveling car suffer the longer wait.

I would expect Tesla to continue to monitor the situation and roll out additional policy changes to attempt to keep the Supercharger spaces open for long distance travelers.

My understand is that Tesla is really thinking about long term solutions, and has instituted plans for the future. Word is that the new Gigafactory is configured to produce millions of new cells capable of up to 10 times faster charging. They are also designing more powerful Superchargers that will be compatible with these new cells, and allow faster and faster charging.

I would expect that over the next 10 years we will see Electric Vehicles capable of getting 200 miles of charge in only about 5 minutes. This would resolve most of these issues and more rapidly enhance to conversion of the Nations automotive fleet from gas/diesel to Electric.

As a side note, I often see ICE vehicles lining up for a +20 minute wait at my local Costco gas stations. They are willing to wait 20 minutes to get a gas fill-up if it means saving them a couple cents a gallon. Again...that human nature thing.

 

[oktane]

As a side note, I often see ICE vehicles lining up for a +20 minute wait at my local Costco gas stations. They are willing to wait 20 minutes to get a gas fill-up if it means saving them a couple cents a gallon. Again...that human nature thing.

You are spot on. Someone had told me to fill up my car at Costco because it was cheap. That was the first and last time I used Costco for gas. Time is our most precious commodity.

 

[ecobon]

How long do you guys/gals think we will need Superchargers? What will happen to them when a couple of major charging standards are adopted and you start to see corner charging mega stations. Will our current state of disarray with Tesla Superchargers need a severe correction before they are all torn down in the future?

** Limo services and locals clogging up Superchargers look bad for many of us that charge at home and value our time and have consideration and etiquette or like to belittle those by stating that we do. This is Tesla's problem and they will most certainly adapt services and policies. If you you guys are totally considerate and/or want change sooner than later, then print out some red mocked up "T" logo with an anonymous text forwarding number (Google Voice?) and then toss it on your rear or front window so a prospective charger can contact you if they are in a bind and need to charge quickly because they are in between Superchargers (pay it forward?). Then print out another red "T" logo stating why you are disappointed with the charging/practices of other Tesla vehicles or ICE blocking and how it affects others...

Some livery made it their short term business model to use Superchargers. There was nothing in the terms of service to disallow for this before. You could have stated such to a salesperson and they would have smiled and thought nothing of it. Not sure about that right now, though

Why get upset at livery and inconsiderate ICE (I understand, but pointless) and Tesla drivers when it's in fact TESLA who is responsible for changing things for the better? So write a letter or email to TESLA and catalyze the change(s) needed,

 

[Pollux]

It would never make sense to upgrade ALL of the stalls.

The far majority of time when Teslas are charging, they are in tapered mode and they're limited by battery chemistry and not SuperCharger speed. So for very very little extra money (like < 5% extra), Tesla attaches a second charge cable to the same charger and give the remainder of the capacity to another vehicle. It's better than having the second vehicle just wait in the parking lot - at least when the first one starts tapering down the second one would automatically kick in and start charging fast - all of that while you go eat or whatever instead of waiting on the lot until a stall opens up.

Of course it always makes sense to have MORE stalls. Burbank has 6 Superchargers, so really it's 3 chargers with 6 ports. If that's too few, ok - upgrade it and make it 10 chargers. But then, for about the same amount of money they can either have 10 ports that all charge quickly, or have 20 ports, where 10 of them charge quickly.

2x ports where x charges quickly would almost always win over just having x ports where x charges quickly - except in places where Tesla has to pay for land (almost never).


I do give you that Tesla does a VERY bad job in communicating this, and informing you which charger will charge the quickest. If only there was some sort of device in the car that they could use to show you this...

Hi, @deonb,

Thanks for this clear explanation.

Isn't there another wrinkle? I have a vague ememory that there was also some kind of cross-charger relationship such that, for example, it was unwise to charge on 3A when someone else was already on 1A. Better to charge on 2A or 4B.

Do I remember correctly? And, if so, what's the rule?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[sdorn]

I think that once there are enough EVs on the road (maybe not that much longer) and some sort of standardized DC charging system that all EVs can use (either natively or with adapters), then large gas station companies like Quick Trip, Race Track, etc. will start putting in EV chargers. Those kind of places are perfectly situated to service EV charging because they are often located near major interstates and highways and often have facilities that provide for a longer break including food service, restrooms and sometimes even shopping. I also see major truck stop centers getting in on the action as well like Petro.

Tesla is talking with gas station chains about installing Superchargers

 

[brkaus]

Tried SuperCharger the first time yesterday. I was not prepared for the shock. It took me 1 hour to charge from 150mile to 250mile for my S90D. The initial charge rate was like 10mile/hour, i thought the stall I use had issues so I moved to a different one. Quickly, I realized that cold weather was limiting the charge speed. After 30min, the charge rate goes up to 100mile/hour.

Way slower than I thought I heard from tesla.

Now, for winter driving and charging, prepare charge frequently and longer.

Part of the problem you experienced is charging from 150 to 250 miles of range. As the battery gets full, the charge rate slows considerably. One is best off charging from 10 miles of range to 180 to make it to the next supercharger. While topping off is great at home, before leaving for a trip, it's not very efficient at a supercharger.

And yes, cold battery will lower the charge speed as well.

Sadly, these two things to make the supercharger experience problematic. Hopefully someday a technical solution will be found.

In my situation, I don't normally travel long way away from the house and I still spend 3 times a week at the gas station with my ICE for 5-7 minutes each time. I'm thinking the EV charged at home and full every morning will eliminate that 15 minutes of time waste a week. But at the cost of more waiting on the few road trips I make a year.

 

[andrewket]

That makes sense. Surprised there is no real-time information about vacancy such as on the PlugShare app. It would make sense to know if there were 3-4 people in line so I can plan accordingly and not drive there.

It's coming. Supposedly 8.1.

 

[hingisfan]

It would be great if Nav informed us of the ideal stall(s) to use when we got close to the supercharger.

 

[TexasEV]

Hi, @deonb,

Thanks for this clear explanation.

Isn't there another wrinkle? I have a vague ememory that there was also some kind of cross-charger relationship such that, for example, it was unwise to charge on 3A when someone else was already on 1A. Better to charge on 2A or 4B.

Do I remember correctly? And, if so, what's the rule?

Thanks,
Alan

No such thing. The pairs are numbered. 1A and 1B stalls share the same supercharger, 2A shares with 2B, etc.
Perhaps you are thinking of stations where the stalled are numbered differently than what you are used to. Some go 1A, 2A, 3A, 1B, 2B, 3B and others are 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B. You have to look at the designation, you can't assume anything by position.

 

[ArtInCT]

Just traveled from CT to Richmond, VA on the 1st.
Saw no more than 3 Tesla's at any Supercharger.
Most often I was the ONLY Tesla there.
Car was sufficiently charged at each stop BEFORE we returned from facilities nearby.
Of course this is East Coast, probably nothing like west coast situation.

 

[deonb]

No such thing. The pairs are numbered. 1A and 1B stalls share the same supercharger, 2A shares with 2B, etc.
Perhaps you are thinking of stations where the stalled are numbered differently than what you are used to. Some go 1A, 2A, 3A, 1B, 2B, 3B and others are 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B. You have to look at the designation, you can't assume anything by position.

What he said.