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Swaying / Fishtailing / Handling Fix
- Thread starter sgblank
- Start date
The P85+ is a much better handling car than the P85 but they pale in comparison to the Panamera or even the Karma. The P85+ makes the Model S acceptable as a performance sedan but the steering feel is the big limiting factor with the Model S (regardless of trim). I absolutely abhor the feedback/steering feel of the Model S. For this reason alone it is difficult to compare or even place the P+ into a top tier handling category.
Hi, I'm just wondering if what I'm experiencing is probably the same problem (toe link bolts) or something else. I've always felt that my car was a little squirrely, especially on turns, but I'm not a knowledgeable car guy so I don't really know what the various symptoms might mean, and when I brought it in a long time ago the tech didn't feel anything wrong, and I chalked it up to the coil suspension (as opposed to the air suspension).
About a week ago it got worse, and started feeling super slidey, almost as if it was gusty and windy when it's not. If I drive at 55mph and up, going straight, or even worse, a very gentle turn, it feels like giant hand is coming out of the sky and gently nudging the back of the car intermittently. Also, I've noticed if I slam on the accelerator, the car's weight shifts backwards as normal, and either at that moment or maybe after the weight starts to rebound back forwards, the car veers slightly to the right, and if I let the regen kick in strong, it veers slightly left. In general, driving at highway speeds is a "constantly making minute adjustments" affair. And making very slight turns at speed (the kind where you might just rest your thumb on one of the radial parts of the steering wheel and provide a tiny amount of pressure to keep the wheel turned a little bit) requires some constant attention to how hard I'm pushing with my thumb as the feedback from the wheel may all of a sudden require more pressure or none at all to keep the curve constant.
Any guesses as to what that might be from the symptoms would be very much appreciated. I'm bringing the car in two weeks (hopefully I don't veer into oncoming traffic before then), and would like to be able to point the tech in the right direction in case he doesn't feel anything.
Thanks.
Oh, and I checked tire pressures. They were a tiny bit low (41-42), and I put 44 in there, and the problem has not gone away). (Oh, and I have the 19" ones).
About a week ago it got worse, and started feeling super slidey, almost as if it was gusty and windy when it's not. If I drive at 55mph and up, going straight, or even worse, a very gentle turn, it feels like giant hand is coming out of the sky and gently nudging the back of the car intermittently. Also, I've noticed if I slam on the accelerator, the car's weight shifts backwards as normal, and either at that moment or maybe after the weight starts to rebound back forwards, the car veers slightly to the right, and if I let the regen kick in strong, it veers slightly left. In general, driving at highway speeds is a "constantly making minute adjustments" affair. And making very slight turns at speed (the kind where you might just rest your thumb on one of the radial parts of the steering wheel and provide a tiny amount of pressure to keep the wheel turned a little bit) requires some constant attention to how hard I'm pushing with my thumb as the feedback from the wheel may all of a sudden require more pressure or none at all to keep the curve constant.
Any guesses as to what that might be from the symptoms would be very much appreciated. I'm bringing the car in two weeks (hopefully I don't veer into oncoming traffic before then), and would like to be able to point the tech in the right direction in case he doesn't feel anything.
Thanks.
Oh, and I checked tire pressures. They were a tiny bit low (41-42), and I put 44 in there, and the problem has not gone away). (Oh, and I have the 19" ones).
I've had my P85 aligned in-house by Tesla and it is spot on, but still squirrely. Service center suggested that it may be due to the tread on the Primacy tires, as they tend to "hunt" a bit on grooved road surfaces, and I've read reports from others with the air suspension that their cars feel "floaty". I think that in my case it is a combination of these two things.
Tesla probably understood they had a suspension problem early on
In hindsight Tesla probably understood they had a suspension problem early on. They introduced the P85+, a new body style less than 6 months after they started volume shipments of the S and P models.
My guess is they discovered that their original suspension design wasn't what they thought it was, and started engineering a fix in parallel as they were ramping up shipments of the S & P models.
Rather than retrofitting the fixes to the existing S and P product lines they decided to turn the bug into a feature by charging extra for a suspension that matched their claims about the base model.
My bet is that as the novelty of awesome acceleration and no gas wears off, a good number of the P85+ suspension features will migrate down to the base products.
(Or at least I hope so for the long term viability of the company.)
In hindsight Tesla probably understood they had a suspension problem early on. They introduced the P85+, a new body style less than 6 months after they started volume shipments of the S and P models.
My guess is they discovered that their original suspension design wasn't what they thought it was, and started engineering a fix in parallel as they were ramping up shipments of the S & P models.
Rather than retrofitting the fixes to the existing S and P product lines they decided to turn the bug into a feature by charging extra for a suspension that matched their claims about the base model.
My bet is that as the novelty of awesome acceleration and no gas wears off, a good number of the P85+ suspension features will migrate down to the base products.
(Or at least I hope so for the long term viability of the company.)
I've been fine with the original (air) suspension, but then I seem to have had my alignment done properly in the first place, and I haven't done the sort of driving which might throw it out of alignment.
It seems that the original suspension design is *very* sensitive to any errors in alignment and is also prone to errors in alignment.
It seems that the original suspension design is *very* sensitive to any errors in alignment and is also prone to errors in alignment.
Just FYI, my issue (felt loosey goosey even on the straightaways, veering slightly to the right on acceleration and to the left on deceleration) was addressed last week and seems to be fine now.
Same fix, apparently:
"Road tested the vehicle and verified that the rear sways around some with andacceleration and deceleration inputs. Inspected the rear suspension and found that the
outer toe links were a little loose. Torqued the outer toe links to the updated 130 Nm
specification. Re-torqued all rear suspension control arm bolts. Road tested the vehicle
after repairs and verified that the rear end no longer sways around abnormally."
They also did a "courtesy inspection" ("Concern: Standard Courtesy Inspection Checklist") and also did:
"Torqued the lower front ball joints to the factory
specified 140 Nm. Updated the firmware to 5.8. Please see the inspection checklist for
detailed information."
They also fixed the wind noise coming from the front of the pano roof at high speed. Pretty sweet! The car is pretty quiet now.
Comparing my s60 with coil susp. to the p85+ with air susp. that I got as a loaner, I would say that my car is still spongier and floatier than I'd ideally like, but that it handles basically fine. The tradeoff that I get for spongier handling, apparently, is that the ride is more comfortable and way quieter (dunno; maybe that''s the difference with the 19" wheels as opposed to 21"). Car feels like it's brand new again.
Same fix, apparently:
"Road tested the vehicle and verified that the rear sways around some with andacceleration and deceleration inputs. Inspected the rear suspension and found that the
outer toe links were a little loose. Torqued the outer toe links to the updated 130 Nm
specification. Re-torqued all rear suspension control arm bolts. Road tested the vehicle
after repairs and verified that the rear end no longer sways around abnormally."
They also did a "courtesy inspection" ("Concern: Standard Courtesy Inspection Checklist") and also did:
"Torqued the lower front ball joints to the factory
specified 140 Nm. Updated the firmware to 5.8. Please see the inspection checklist for
detailed information."
They also fixed the wind noise coming from the front of the pano roof at high speed. Pretty sweet! The car is pretty quiet now.
Comparing my s60 with coil susp. to the p85+ with air susp. that I got as a loaner, I would say that my car is still spongier and floatier than I'd ideally like, but that it handles basically fine. The tradeoff that I get for spongier handling, apparently, is that the ride is more comfortable and way quieter (dunno; maybe that''s the difference with the 19" wheels as opposed to 21"). Car feels like it's brand new again.
I was very disappointed with the suspension when I got my car. I came from an Audi A5 which was like driving on train tracks. I thought it is a weak point of the MS until I run into the extreme tire wear issue and got the alignment checked . I had more than 1 degree toe out ! After the alignment fix it was like driving a new car. Not as good as the Audi but far more comfortable. I love the way it rides and have no complains.
MSMX2014
$ Contributing Member $
Been driving my P85+ for about 4 weeks now and have taken it in twice to get the alignment fixed. Will be going in a third time today in hopes of finally getting it fixed. While driving the car pulls to the right at slow speeds, high speeds, freeway and residential. Has anyone else had this issue and been provided a resolution?
I have a P85, no plus. I've struggled with the alignment, specifically pulling right, as you describe below. After multiple alignments, and efforts on the part of the service team... finally it drives straight. It's still not "perfect", but it's close enough that I'm going with it. My suggestion is to keep pushing them to get it right, and test drive it before taking it back.
They key with Model S alignments is that your service center should have its own alignment bench and does the alignment in-house. If they farm it out to someone else (which happened to me), you will probably get back a botched alignment. Make them get it right. Also, pulling to the right can sometimes be a road crowning issue. Make sure that you are driving on absolutely flat surface when you test. Also, the 19" Primacy tires tend to hunt a bit on grooved surfaces.
MSMX2014
$ Contributing Member $
Thanks for the feedback! Will do.
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Ok, thanks. Will let you know how it goes.
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Ok, thanks. Will let you know how it goes.
MSMX2014
$ Contributing Member $
Going in on Friday for the 3rd round. Tesla service manager said they will get it dialed in this time. Will let you know.
MSMX2014
$ Contributing Member $
Ok, so the 3rd time was the charm. Just went for about a 30 minute cruise and was straight as an arrow. Alignment is perfect now. Talk about impeccable service. My local service center picked up the car from my home. Fixed the alignment and brought it back. Now that's customer service. Zero inconvenience to me. I'm pretty sure no dealer would do that for me. They might offer a rental, but I would have to drive to them. They provided the same pick up and delivery service the second time too. Probably would have done it the 1st if I had requested it. Anyway I'm very pleased and just love driving my Model S.
Btw, something I continue to notice is that in addition to most adults the kids and teens are enamored with my Model S. They usually give the mouth open stare or the smiling pointing response as I drive past them in my Model S. Reminds me of what my friends and I used to do with each other or our parents when we would see a Ferrari. Awesome!
Btw, something I continue to notice is that in addition to most adults the kids and teens are enamored with my Model S. They usually give the mouth open stare or the smiling pointing response as I drive past them in my Model S. Reminds me of what my friends and I used to do with each other or our parents when we would see a Ferrari. Awesome!
cschock
Member
I had a similar problem... car pulled left like it was sliding when I pressed on accelerator and then back right when I let off accelerator shortly after the one year service (including tire rotation.) Turns out it was a problem with the toe linkage. San Rafael service center got it fixed up, realigned and car is perfect again. The feeling is hard to describe unless you have felt it, almost like the car wanted to slide sideways under acceleration. If this is happening to you, it isn't normal and you should get it checked!
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