Tagged on the Highway

[Saghost]

Or perhaps it was because I exaggerated and said AP was “basically useless” due to this. I guess perhaps I should have said AP is “very annoying” due to this, and also due to the poor acceleration smoothing (it is so much smoother when I drive manually ...my metric is to drive smoothly enough to not wake sleeping passengers with any jolts).

I didn't put up a disagree, but this is indeed the part I objected to when I read it. Autopilot certainly isn't perfect, but it is still a very, very useful tool in a lot of situations.

Having it learn some defensive driving in moderate traffic isn't a bad idea (as noted by others, in serious stop and go it's probably not practical, and in light traffic it won't need it,) but there are other things I really want it to learn too - especially the onramp merge situation.

 

[qdeathstar]

I stopped using AP because I didn’t like how often it drove in other people’s blind spots. If everyone else was a defensive driver maybe it wouldn’t matter. But the are not, so it does.

You can get it to move out of the blind spot by decreasing the max speed for a little bit until it is behind the driver..

 

[KenC]

You might want to review that video again. At the point where the car started merging into OP's lane, there was a car immediately to the right.

Uhm, maybe you should watch the video to the end, when the right repeater view is shown. You see when the Tesla is hit, the Honda has already cleared the back of the Tesla and is about to switch lanes and tuck in behind.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Most of the time it's not exactly avoidable to be in someone's blind spot. Especially in CA. How are you going to avoid being in someone's blind spot in stop and go traffic?

This has been covered above. The algorithm is not really that complicated. People have even suggested strategies for stop-and-go traffic which may provide some safety benefit.

 

[JSWE]

I wonder if AP would have moved the vehicle to the right to avoid this collision if there wasn't a car to the right??

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Uhm, maybe you should watch the video to the end, when the right repeater view is shown. You see when the Tesla is hit, the Honda has already cleared the back of the Tesla and is about to switch lanes and tuck in behind.

It's super close. The collision occurs at about 36.9/37 seconds in the video. It is hard to say whether that vehicle has cleared. Of course, to avoid the collision the Tesla would have had to move over earlier, when it might well have hit that other vehicle. It was super tight. Definitely avoidable with quick throttle (or brake) and a slight move to the right, but that's a lot to expect of autonomy (but may someday be possible - it just has to not hit anything!).

 

[Magnets!]

That sucks...I had an almost identical situation as you. Sideswiped by a Tacoma, although I was not on AP. Car currently at body shop.
Let's see a picture of the body damage.

 

[afadeev]

Yeah. This is why AP is useless on moderately busy freeways - it seems to have no concept of what a blind spot is.

Not entirely useless, but certainly not foolproof.
Not to be a smart-ass, but none of us have any business relying on AP/TACC on a road/highway with traffic anyway, as per Tesla manual :

• p. 67: Do not use Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on city streets or on roads where traffic conditions are constantly changing.
  
  
• p. 68: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and, especially in situations when you are driving over
  50 mph (80 km/h), may not brake/ decelerate when a vehicle or object is only partially in the driving lane or when a
  vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary or slow-moving vehicle or object is in front of you.
• p. 74: Autosteer is not designed to, and will not, steer Model 3 around objects partially or completely in the driving lane.

It's just a fact of life that AP (TACC and AS) have tons of documented limitations for driving on a highway when other cars are present.

Use at your own risk!

Sometimes, when something like this is about to happen, the first reaction is to blast the car horn long and loud to alert the other driver who might be sleepy or unaware. AP should have this option!

They should implement something with a lower certainty threshold which just starts honking when it detects a possible collision.

I would be nice if AP even honked the horn when it predicted a side collision that might have stopped the driver from changing lanes.

Honking to alert others to a potential collision could be smart.
On the other hand, given the number of phantom brakes and false collision warnings I get out of my Model 3, I am not sure I would want to also be inundated with random honking events!

Sometimes less is more!

 

[Charge&Go]

I try NOT to stay in someone’s blind spot for long. That’s driving defensively...sorry this happened to you! It sucks no matter how you break it down.

 

[chronopc]

This has been covered above. The algorithm is not really that complicated. People have even suggested strategies for stop-and-go traffic which may provide some safety benefit.

I'm not talking about whether or not it's hard to have the algorithm. What I'm saying is that even if the algorithm is in place, more often than not, you will be in a situation where there's no avoiding being in other people's blind spot. It's called traffic and until people figure out how to make it so traffic doesn't exits, you will be in other people's blind spot more often than not.

Let's not pretend like this accident happened because of a failure in Autopilot. It happened because the person changing lane did something he wasn't supposed to be doing. No matter how good Autopilot is, bad decisions by human drivers will result in an accident.

 

[chronopc]

I am thinking that adjusting following distance a bit would help you get out of blind spot. What do you think? Has anyone used that much?

I typically keep my follow distant at 4. I'm not sure that helps prevent me from being in other people's blind spots, but what that does do is to keep more space between me and the car in front of me for people to weave in and out of traffic. I've noticed that I get cut off a lot less frequently than before.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Let's not pretend like this accident happened because of a failure in Autopilot

Not suggesting that. It clearly happened because the driver of the pickup did not check his mirror.

It's called traffic and until people figure out how to make it so traffic doesn't exits, you will be in other people's blind spot more often than not.

It depends on the typical traffic density you deal with. For me, if the car drove avoiding blind spots, I would be out of peoples’ blind spots the vast majority of the time.

The whole idea is to maximize safety, I thought. Just because you can’t do something 100% of the time does not mean you should not do it at all.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I am thinking that adjusting following distance a bit would help you get out of blind spot. What do you think? Has anyone used that much?

I suppose it could if you constantly adjusted the distance. But I may as well drive myself at that point.

 

[Zigzagmolly]

My absolute favorite GIF!!!

 

[Don_Joe]

The best thing about this thread is that it has the potential to make some people realize that the likely hood of this type of accident occurring is reduced by staying out of the blind spot when possible. Autopilot has the hardware to do this it just isn't implemented yet. I have confidence it will be eventually implemented. I personally adjust my speed and/or following distance when this occurs via the scroll wheels if I am in AP. For driver's arguing against staying out of blind spots (because it just can't be done all the time) you now have the opportunity to improve your driving skill and safety by paying attention to cars in your adjacent lanes while in AP or while driving manually. Try it out!

 

[chronopc]

The best thing about this thread is that it has the potential to make some people realize that the likely hood of this type of accident occurring is reduced by staying out of the blind spot when possible. Autopilot has the hardware to do this it just isn't implemented yet. I have confidence it will be eventually implemented. I personally adjust my speed and/or following distance when this occurs via the scroll wheels if I am in AP. For driver's arguing against staying out of blind spots (because it just can't be done all the time) you now have the opportunity to improve your driving skill and safety by paying attention to cars in your adjacent lanes while in AP or while driving manually. Try it out!

So if I adjust my follow distant when I'm on AP, traffic will magically disappear? Let me try this tomorrow and I'll report back.

 

[ucmndd]

Full-lol at “a touch of whiplash”.

Well done, OP.

 

[erik_k]

I can think of two good ways to solve this. Clearly the Honda change lanes into the Tesla. Perhaps Hondas should be banned (j/k, I have 3).
Or, I’ve always thought the traffic would flow better if the speed limits were different for different lanes. That is the left lane could be 65 mph, and the right lane could be 55 or 60 mph. This way you wouldn’t have multiple lanes all going at the same pace.

 

[CWFLY]

Sometimes, when something like this is about to happen, the first reaction is to blast the car horn long and loud to alert the other driver who might be sleepy or unaware. AP should have this option!

That's an awesome point! Worth repeating.

I've gone 35 years without an accident. I've made plenty of driving blunders during that time. I attribute much of that good fortune to ALWAYS using my turn signals. Other drivers have bailed me out plenty of times. I wish there was a universal hand gesture that says "Sorry, my bad.... Thank you!"

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I had a close call yesterday, nearly got “tagged.” Not very interesting, but I thought of this thread. Avoided it using AP (AlanPilot)

Front: 2019-07-12_09-44-47-front
Side: 2019-07-12_09-44-47-right_repeater

1) I wasn't using AP. I was using AlanPilot.
2) My car did not react at all; I did. I brake at about the 11.5 second mark in the video (you can tell from the horizon position changing), when the white Honda is in the other lane, but about to cross the line.
3) If I had not reacted, the Honda would have hit me. I had actually just started to accelerate, right after the BMW finally cleared my lane, at about 10.5 seconds - you can see the front end tilt upwards (the BMW was SO slow about getting into the turn lane...aggravating, and not cool at all, given the turn lane was wide open), but then I anticipated the collision risk with the errant Honda, and hit the brakes at ~11.5 seconds.
4) He seemed to be a bad driver - later on, I saw him cutting in suddenly in front of people a few times. I guess this is just how he rolls. You can also see him tailgating the van in front and hitting his brakes constantly. Just really poor. Prior to the close call, I hadn't had enough time to observe these poor driving habits, and know to stay well clear.

I was apparently (briefly) in his blind spot at the key moment - I don't think he knew I was there - though perhaps he did but just didn't care. I think all spots may have been permanently blind for this driver though, due to the extremely heavy window tint. I had just pulled up past him (so he should have seen me at that point!) and I was in the process of passing him, when the ponderous white BMW started dawdling towards his turn lane. So the Honda quickly gained ground, and rather than yielding to the nicely signaling white Audi, which moved into his lane, the Honda just jerked into my lane. It took me a bit by surprise, which is why it was so close.

"Quality" driving. Could have been a bad day.

Be alert out there! The car technology is not magic; it won't save you every time. I had about 1 second to react here (though if I had been REALLY anticipating (watching the white Audi) I would not have had to really react I suppose...I just never would have accelerated and there would have been no drama). Things can happen fast.

As an extra bonus there is even more mild drama after the second traffic light. I probably made the wrong call there - I didn't even see the cyclist which was the source of that drama (he must be moderately insane to ride on that road with no dedicated bike lane) - but I should not have blasted past the gray Audi. I guess I only accelerated once I saw him braking heavily. At the time, though, I didn't even know what was going on. The right call would have been to be cautious and slow down, but I was a little peeved at the Honda. Still, another example of why it would be a bad idea to sit in that gray Audi's blind spot - he could have just as easily swerved left rather than brake.