Tax Bill and EV Tax Credit Discussion

[Snow Drift]

This is really annoying. Why not just cap the price of the car to $60,000 so that you continue to incentivize middle class Americans to lease or buy BEV/PHEVs? Even if you don't have a $7,500 tax bill (most Americans don't) you can lease and get the benefit by reducing your monthly payment.


Maybe the OEMs will just reduce the price of their cars by $7,500...

 

[powertoold]

Wow.

You know what.... enough. We are small business owners and this is the first real tax relief that small business owners have seen in decades. This is far from a corporate hand out but go ahead and stick your head in the sand... better yet, whine about living in a state with sky high cost of living and how somehow that cost needs to be tax deductible. Not my problem or anyone else's.

Go ahead and join the party whose philosophy is that the government starts from a position of taxing you 100% and decides what you get to keep. NO THANKS.

The guy is an individual. He's saying he's going to be poorer because of the tax bill. You're a small business. It's great that you get a tax break, but who needs it more really? If your business fails, it's most likely because bigger businesses killed you, which is what's happening nowadays. Tax breaks for large corporations will only kill off the smaller businesses in this increasingly complex world.

 

[bhzmark]

The Senate bill was a clusterF.. amendments made at the last minute and the last draft circulated before the vote even having hand written markups.

But it appears to me that the final published senate version DOES NOT REPEAL 30D containing the 7500 credit.

Read the Senate tax bill released Friday

So this is a difference between the house and senate bills, to be reconciled in conference. Because it is a small revenue raiser, the house repeal may prevail, but if enough members at the table in conference support it the credit might stay. I call it a toss up.

 

[nikeykid]

The Senate bill was a clusterF.. amendments made at the last minute and the last draft circulated before the vote even having hand written markups.

But it appears to me that the final published senate version DOES NOT REPEAL 30D containing the 7500 credit.

Read the Senate tax bill released Friday

So this is a difference between the house and senate bills, to be reconciled in conference. Because it is a small revenue raiser, the house repeal may prevail, but if enough members at the table in conference support it the credit might stay. I call it a toss up.

i think that's the version before the late night marathon amendment session, since they didn't pass the bill until saturday morning (around 1:30am)

 

[PoitNarf]

i think that's the version before the late night marathon amendment session, since they didn't pass the bill until saturday morning (around 1:30am)

Yep, an amendment to the bill added in a termination for the EV tax credit. As pointed our earlier by nikeykid:

yup, its toast guys

SA 1746. Mr. FLAKE submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to
amendment SA 1618 proposed by Mr. McConnell (for Mr. Hatch (for himself
and Ms. Murkowski)) to the bill H.R. 1, to provide for reconciliation
pursuant to titles II and V of the concurrent resolution on the budget
for fiscal year 2018; which was ordered to lie on the table; as
follows:

At the appropriate place, insert the following:

SEC. ____. TERMINATION OF CREDIT FOR NEW QUALIFIED PLUG-IN
ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES.

(a) In General.--Subpart B of part IV of subchapter A of
chapter 1 is amended by striking section 30D (and by striking
the item relating to such section in the table of sections
for such subpart).
(b) Conforming Amendments.--
(1) Section 38(b) is amended by striking paragraph (35).
(2) Section 1016(a) is amended by striking paragraph (37).
(3) Section 6501(m) is amended by striking ``30D(e)(4),''.
(c) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section
shall apply to vehicles placed in service in taxable years
beginning after December 31, 2017.

The amendment can be found here: S.Amdt.1746 to S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018) - Amendment Text

 

[bhzmark]

i think that's the version before the late night marathon amendment session, since they didn't pass the bill until saturday morning (around 1:30am)

This NYT article that links to it suggests that it was a draft after the amendments Senate Republicans Pass Sweeping Tax Bill

NYT could be confused though -- even the senators don't know what they passed.

 

[bhzmark]

Yep, an amendment to the bill added in a termination for the EV tax credit. As pointed our earlier by nikeykid:



The amendment can be found here: S.Amdt.1746 to S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018) - Amendment Text

but what shows that that amendment passed? or was part of the amendments that passed? It says "Lie on the table"

I think that was Flake's 11/30 amendments that didn't pass. Not part of the 12/1 amendments: Amendments - H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tax Cuts and Jobs Act

 

[nikeykid]

but what shows that that amendment passed? or was part of the amendments that passed? It says "Lie on the table"

Amendment 1746 was rolled into Amendment 1618, which was passed. Not confusing right?

S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018)

12/02/2017 Amendment SA 1618, as amended, agreed to in Senate by Voice Vote.

 

[ohmman]

mod notes: Title amended to reflect the elimination of EV tax credit. If some handwritten scribbles in the margins end up not eliminating it, I'll change it back.

Also, moved some posts to politics quarantine. This is going to be a political thread. One can ascribe arguments about tax code changes to Republicans, since it's a party line vote. However, arguments should stay on the topic of the tax bill. Nonsense posts rooted in conspiracy theory will probably just be deleted instead of preserved in the politics quarantine, and will likely result in a temp ban.

 

[pdx3181]

How dumb is it that we don't even have clarity about what the new law says?

This whole system stinks.

 

[bhzmark]

Edit to add: I was wrong to change my mind. And disagree with other posts only to indicate that I think they are mistaken and new readers of the thread should consider that those are not right -- don't take it personally.

Amendment 1746 was rolled into Amendment 1618, which was passed. Not confusing right?

S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018)

12/02/2017 Amendment SA 1618, as amended, agreed to in Senate by Voice Vote.

at S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018) - Amendment Text

I think I see all the pieces:

The 1618 substitute bill itself doesn't have the 30D repeal, but the list of passed additional amendments to 1618 refers to 1746 which has the 30D repeal language. . .

bummer

edit to add: only caveat is that a subsequent amendment could have striken the 30D repeal provision that was added in 1746. We won't really know until the bill as amended is published in a restated form. Even the late night amendments numbered after 1810 don't seem to be available online. They exist written on a napkin with the parliamentarian.

 

[ConcordeSST]

at S.Amdt.1618 to H.R.1 - 115th Congress (2017-2018) - Amendment Text

word search shows no 30D or plug-in or electric vehicle.

I still don't see confirmed passed legislation text that repeals 30D

Click on S.Amdt.1746 where it says "ammendments to this ammendment" at the top of the S.Amdt.1618 link.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

 

[redan]

 

[PoitNarf]

It’s very frustrating that legislation such as this which will affect the lives of every tax paying American citizen was rushed through so quickly and with so many last minute changes. I’m disappointed at the termination of the EV tax credit, but now I’m growing even more concerned on how all of the other changes will affect my taxes next year. Hopefully I’m able to get a clearer picture on what my 2018 taxes will look like before I submit my Model 3 order. I was originally going to go with the initial production in order to ensure that I received the EV credit. Now that it seems that ship has sailed my Model 3 configuration might now be dictated by whatever tax increase/decrease I’ll be dealing with in 2018.

 

[turnbowm]

Elimination of the tax credit will have a telling effect on the PHEV/EV market. I'm sure that Tesla is celebrating, since this will eliminate a net cost advantage that competitors would have enjoyed downstream.

 

[geneclean55]

But it seems there were hundreds of senate amendments submitted after mcdonnell submitted the original amendment late Thursday. Including many from democrats! How do we know which ones were agreed upon?

It looks like any senator could write up an amendment but that doesn't mean it was voted in, right?

 

[MIT_S60]

Elimination of the tax credit will have a telling effect on the PHEV/EV market. I'm sure that Tesla is celebrating, since this will eliminate a net cost advantage that competitors would have enjoyed downstream.

It will be interesting (and scary) to see the effects upon the plug-in market, both for new and used. I suspect new sales (not necessarily Tesla) will tank, but used sales will increase (and values as well). Now is the best time time to buy for those on the fence. Nissan missed out by delaying the Leaf2.0 to 2018.

 

[ElecFan]

Elimination of the tax credit will have a telling effect on the PHEV/EV market. I'm sure that Tesla is celebrating, since this will eliminate a net cost advantage that competitors would have enjoyed downstream.

I don't think so. Elon has always stated he wants to disrupt the ice industry in favour of EV's. The small advantage against other EV's is greatly offset by the disadvantage towards (heavily subsidized) ice competitors.
Also, the elimination is yet another example of the scandalous abuse of power by this 'clean coal' president. Elon will never be happy about that.

 

[idleuser]

Elimination of the tax credit will have a telling effect on the PHEV/EV market. I'm sure that Tesla is celebrating, since this will eliminate a net cost advantage that competitors would have enjoyed downstream.

I'm not sure I get your point. Other car manufacture sell millions of cars a year who can post a profit while Tesla is burning cash through expansion. This will hurt EV adoption for Tesla more than other manufactures. The big names like Toyota, Ford, Honda, Nissan etc can afford to slowly ramp up production while Tesla's success hinges on EV tax credit and Model 3 for 2018.

 

[Jo-]

By comparison I've seen ZERO whining or hand wringing about the elimination of the child adoption credit... something that actually helps real living human beings.

Maybe that’s because adoption tax credit is not being eliminated.