A lot of comments on here are so obvious Tesla fanboy comments. It's a great looking car. WAs I expecting more? Ya, a bit more range. This is a Porsche though, they know how to build sports cars. It may be slower than model S to 60 but I'm sure drives a lot more refined and will shame a model S on a circuit. I'm disappointed with the price, find it's too expensive. I know model S was their target but the price CE point just put it on another level.... It is a Porsche though, they are great drivers cars. We will soon find out how they are on the road.
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Taycan Turbo Introduction
- Thread starter Bmac
- Start date
Switching driving modes constantly, eh? Okay
And not any larger. Hence the same “issue” for people.
Look...I’m all for giving credit to Porsche where credit is due. I.e. outside styling, build quality, better materials. But trying to come up with other things like “not distracting interior”, is far fetched.
On a Tesla forum you don’t say? Stop the presses!!!!!!
I’m all for giving Porsche credit for what they got right. And they did get a LOT right. I just find it silly when people try to defend blatant issues. No different than some Porsche lovers on here getting upset on the defending of Tesla for blatant issues.
These vehicles will sell and do appear to outshine Tesla in some areas. But it ain’t no “Tesla killer”.
Taycan has no OTA updates and will be stuck at the technology readiness level as the day it is delivered, or worse
,in the model year delivered in the antiquated model year scheme legacy manufacturers still use,. Teslas get better and better with each OTA update... something that Taycan will never do.
There’s no doubt that the Taycan is a beautiful car that is likely very, very well executed from a materiality, build-quality and service/support standpoint—and, if I needed an EV that was trackable with no limit on cost, it would be tops on my list. Still, IMO, there are better EVs out there for almost every other situation, and, as a follow up to my earlier comment, there are better sedans and SUVs on that market than those offered by Porsche. If, on the other hand, I were looking for a true driveable, trackable and livable sports car (with 2 doors), a 911 or 718 would right there at the top of my desirability list. A decent first effort by Porsche but nothing earth shattering and as @SO16 writes, it’s no Tesla killer, in any trim level.
I'm surprised it is so enormous.
The biggest (no pun intended) problem with the S is that it is such a gargantuan boat that it is very difficult to drive around a city. Also, living with it day-to-day, it is also difficult to get in and out of. And it is an electron hog; I'm playing the "let's see if I can avoid charging at home" game and it is a bit tedious to charge 3 times every 2 weeks even though I'm only putting a couple hundred miles on it in that same time period.
The taycan looks like it is just as large on the outside, smaller on the inside, probably as hard to get in and out of, and more of an electron hog. The e-hog isn't much of an issue if you plug in every night, at least until your wife asks why the electric bill is so high...
I guess I'm not in the target demo seeing as how I got my S used. I personally have not seen "poor service" from tesla; my car got rear ended and it took 2 weeks for it to be repaired from start to finish, my used car had a couple small issues that they addressed without hassle in an appointment that was easy to schedule; all this was done in June of 2019 so not in the "high touch" early S days.
I would not consider a car for any reason for $150k. Even if I doubled or (massively) more my income. Even the $90k-ish for a new S seems silly but at least you get a car that is a fully useful car in every way you'd expect a car to be useful:
I'm sure there's a market for the taycan; I don't think it's a big one, even if it were $90k it can't take 5 people anywhere and can't take 4 people on a vacation with their luggage and it can't take anyone anywhere that's than 3 hour's drive, unless they're planning on spending the night there and their location has facilities to at least level 2 charge. The e-tron has the same 3 hour liability making it a "2nd car" but with the double-liability that the SUV in most families is the vacation truckster, so now that family would need a 3rd car?
I'm calling the taycan a swing and a miss.
The biggest (no pun intended) problem with the S is that it is such a gargantuan boat that it is very difficult to drive around a city. Also, living with it day-to-day, it is also difficult to get in and out of. And it is an electron hog; I'm playing the "let's see if I can avoid charging at home" game and it is a bit tedious to charge 3 times every 2 weeks even though I'm only putting a couple hundred miles on it in that same time period.
The taycan looks like it is just as large on the outside, smaller on the inside, probably as hard to get in and out of, and more of an electron hog. The e-hog isn't much of an issue if you plug in every night, at least until your wife asks why the electric bill is so high...
I guess I'm not in the target demo seeing as how I got my S used. I personally have not seen "poor service" from tesla; my car got rear ended and it took 2 weeks for it to be repaired from start to finish, my used car had a couple small issues that they addressed without hassle in an appointment that was easy to schedule; all this was done in June of 2019 so not in the "high touch" early S days.
I would not consider a car for any reason for $150k. Even if I doubled or (massively) more my income. Even the $90k-ish for a new S seems silly but at least you get a car that is a fully useful car in every way you'd expect a car to be useful:
- carries 4-5 people, if need be (7 if you get an antique with the rear kid storage rack)
- takes 4 people comfortably and quickly to a vacation in another state, with all their luggage
- fast
- comfortable
- gets you back and forth to work safely
- easy to look at / not embarrassing to get out of
I'm sure there's a market for the taycan; I don't think it's a big one, even if it were $90k it can't take 5 people anywhere and can't take 4 people on a vacation with their luggage and it can't take anyone anywhere that's than 3 hour's drive, unless they're planning on spending the night there and their location has facilities to at least level 2 charge. The e-tron has the same 3 hour liability making it a "2nd car" but with the double-liability that the SUV in most families is the vacation truckster, so now that family would need a 3rd car?
I'm calling the taycan a swing and a miss.
Valore
Member
Valore
Member
Pricing is quite good for a Porsche, slightly cheaper than the equivalent Panameras or 911s.
I never expected it to be priced like a Tesla without compromising on performance, quality or materials.
Taycan Turbo: $150,900
Panamera Turbo: $153,000
911 Turbo: $161,800
Taycan Turbo S: $185,000
Panamera Turbo S: $187,700
911 Turbo S: $190,700
This thing will sell like hot cake with those looks.
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Valore
Member
For everything. They already said they'll enable full 350kW charging down the road for Taycans. So it's obviously more than infotainment OTA updates.
Well, I’ll wait for delivery and testing before forming an opinion. The 0-60 times may be accurate European measurements rather than using the bogus Motor Trend rollout numbers. I didn’t see any Tesla style disclaimers for the quoted performance times. I don’t say they aren’t there, just that I didn’t see any. It appears the Tesla P100DL is probably a 2.8 second 0-60 car. The Raven is claimed a little quicker. Quarter mile times look similar, the P100DL is a 10.8-11 second car, Porsche claims 10.8 seconds for the 1/4 mile. The 10.8 to 11 second numbers for the Tesla are actual numbers. It’ll be interesting to see the drag strip races when people start those.
I went through the Porsche configurator. Mine came in at $207,620. There are some absurd options, for example the $540 key fob and the $560 leather wallet for the car’s manual. Some options aren’t explained, the optional cruise controls, there are two and I haven’t a clue the difference except the ~$1500 price difference. I went cheaper. The optional cruise control requires addition of the heated steering wheel. I don’t see the logic there.
Mine’s white, black leather, $21,270 in options including the “premium package”, high end sound, anything that makes charging faster, anything that improves handling, and the system that helps you find your way around and find chargers. I did delete the rear logo, and I went with the parking assist sensors and folding mirrors. I skipped the seat massagers, I figure I’d stop every couple of hours anyway. There isn’t a 19” wheel option, all choices are 21” so my local jumbo Michigan potholes will be a problem. So mine is configured as what I see as realistically without checking all the boxes to run the price up. I can make a wall cord hanger, And I don’t need a $6323 leather luggage set. I did go for the big glass roof. I like that.
So it looks to me as if this will price compete with the new Roadster rather than current Tesla models. Right now it’s almost exactly twice the cost of my configured high end Tesla S. So for the price of the Porsche, I could have an performance S, and a spare performance S right next to it. Maybe one for driving and the other for special occasions. And the Tesla’s get free supercharging now, that’s a perk.
I’d expect the Porsche to handle better although they are all heavy cars and physics takes over. The mass and the rubber contact patches make all these cars less agile., I’d expect the fit and finish to be a little better just from what I’ve read here. I’d expect the repair experience to be better. I’d expect the usual dealership games, price gouging for a new model, etc., Porsche can’t control that. And I don’t think I’d buy one of the first year’s production. Prices will probably be higher the second year but there are usually first year new model bugs. I’d let other people discover those.
I went through the Porsche configurator. Mine came in at $207,620. There are some absurd options, for example the $540 key fob and the $560 leather wallet for the car’s manual. Some options aren’t explained, the optional cruise controls, there are two and I haven’t a clue the difference except the ~$1500 price difference. I went cheaper. The optional cruise control requires addition of the heated steering wheel. I don’t see the logic there.
Mine’s white, black leather, $21,270 in options including the “premium package”, high end sound, anything that makes charging faster, anything that improves handling, and the system that helps you find your way around and find chargers. I did delete the rear logo, and I went with the parking assist sensors and folding mirrors. I skipped the seat massagers, I figure I’d stop every couple of hours anyway. There isn’t a 19” wheel option, all choices are 21” so my local jumbo Michigan potholes will be a problem. So mine is configured as what I see as realistically without checking all the boxes to run the price up. I can make a wall cord hanger, And I don’t need a $6323 leather luggage set. I did go for the big glass roof. I like that.
So it looks to me as if this will price compete with the new Roadster rather than current Tesla models. Right now it’s almost exactly twice the cost of my configured high end Tesla S. So for the price of the Porsche, I could have an performance S, and a spare performance S right next to it. Maybe one for driving and the other for special occasions. And the Tesla’s get free supercharging now, that’s a perk.
I’d expect the Porsche to handle better although they are all heavy cars and physics takes over. The mass and the rubber contact patches make all these cars less agile., I’d expect the fit and finish to be a little better just from what I’ve read here. I’d expect the repair experience to be better. I’d expect the usual dealership games, price gouging for a new model, etc., Porsche can’t control that. And I don’t think I’d buy one of the first year’s production. Prices will probably be higher the second year but there are usually first year new model bugs. I’d let other people discover those.
Can you point to where they said that? I thought 350kW wasn't coming in this model year of Taycan. And did they say that the 350kW would be an OTA update or a dealer update?
I find it hard to believe that they have convinced their US dealers to give up their stranglehold on OTA updates, and the cash-cow that they are.
Valore
Member
Around 25000.
"Board member Dr Meschke said plant capacity is 20,000 but is “flexible”. However, he added, some customers could be waiting a year for delivery." New Porsche Taycan arrives as pivotal electric sports car | Autocar
For comparison, Porsche sold 256,000 cars in 2018 worldwide, 10% of that for the new Taycan in 1st year I'd call hotcake status.
In 2018, the Panamera recorded the strongest percentage growth with a 38 per cent increase to 38,443 deliveries. The 911 also recorded a double-digit rise: despite the release of a new generation of 911, the number of sports cars delivered increased by ten per cent to 35,573 vehicles.
2018 Global: Porsche Worldwide Car Sales - Car Sales Statistics
I love 911s. I have been a big fan since I saw the whale tail late 70s/80s models cruising around Germany where I grew up. The Taycan looks more like a Panamera than a 911, which is very odd considering they sell more 911s than Panameras (actually they sell way more Porsche SUVs than 911s and Panameras combined). So this is quite a niche car, and a niche car for a very aging buyer. The rarefied price makes it the opposite of what Tesla is trying to achieve - ending the ICE age with cars for the (upper) middle class buyers. The fact that the M3P has essentially the same performance marks (and is as, if not more practical) at one third the cost shows just how far ahead Tesla still remains. The weight and range severely hobble the Taycan, despite its 800 volt charging (which isn't really that much faster anyways), and really people mostly charge at home making the difference moot.
Valore
Member
Yeah, and a Ford Mustang essentially has the same performance marks as a 911 for 1/3 of the cost shows how far ahead Ford still remains.
But speaking of performance, where is a Model 3P doing this? It's out for some time already, someone should have taken it to a track somewhere.
I like it but the top of line ones aren’t for me, I cannot justify the cost for them. The same way I couldn’t justify the cost of the P100DL that was 50-60% more expensive than my S75D when I bought it. There will be lower end models coming later that are supposedly prices around 100k. As well as the Audi Etron GT that will be based on a lot of things from the Taycan.
Basically the Taycan is the kind of car I would want, it has quite a bit of tech and options that Tesla is just lacking, some of which have been a normal option since 2010 in the premium segment. Do I hope that Tesla will actually do something with the S to bring it up to 2019 standards? Yes, Am I optimistic that they will? No.
Basically the Taycan is the kind of car I would want, it has quite a bit of tech and options that Tesla is just lacking, some of which have been a normal option since 2010 in the premium segment. Do I hope that Tesla will actually do something with the S to bring it up to 2019 standards? Yes, Am I optimistic that they will? No.
I take it back about "not being able to use the Taycan for road trips" -- abetterrouteplanner seems to believe that I can drive from Boston to the Smithsonian in Washington DC with 2 stops each of less than 15 minutes.
An e-tron 55 needs 4 stops to get from here to there and has a total charge time of 1:15, which is .... quite a bit worse. My 90D, according to abrp, does it with 3 stops and 1:05 of charging while a long range raven does it in 2 stops and 45 minutes of charging. (all trips asking abrp to land with 50% charge remaining)
- Stratford Square [Electrify America]
CCS, 4 stalls, 350kW
CCS, 10 stalls, 150kW
CCS, 1 stall, 150kW
- WAWA Store 840 - New Castle, DE [Electrify America]
CCS, 2 stalls, 350kW
CCS, 2 stalls, 350kW
CCS, 3 stalls, 150kW
CCS, 4 stalls, 150kW
An e-tron 55 needs 4 stops to get from here to there and has a total charge time of 1:15, which is .... quite a bit worse. My 90D, according to abrp, does it with 3 stops and 1:05 of charging while a long range raven does it in 2 stops and 45 minutes of charging. (all trips asking abrp to land with 50% charge remaining)
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