Tesla 3 isn't perfect, but after a full day rental this BMW driver is buying one!

[Stellavator]

FaceID, touchID, etc have all been defeated. Apple says FaceID is much more secure than touchID. Not that it is impenetrable. FaceID is for convenience on a device I never let get more than a few feet from me. I’m guessing you don’t put your car in your pocket.

You don’t have to hack biometrics. You leave your fingerprints and images of your face everywhere. Again, biometrics are not for security. Feel free to do some research if you think that I’m incorrect.



I’d honestly be very torn if BMW came out with a car that was an EV with comparable specs to the tesla. Id follow my rule tho... never own a bmw. Only lease.

This whole discussion of "security" is funny. We are not talking about securing the Hope Diamond. And when it comes to security, yes, biometrics can be spoofed. But let's get real, the CIA or KGB are not trying to get into your Tesla. We are talking about protecting it from the casual thief, who does not have the ability to pull up a perfect face mold and photo from their special effects lab. Who here thinks that they are that inportant?

Anyway, that's all rediculous anyway. Never going to be a method to get in your car, unless Apple builds one. And then, it would "just work". Practically speaking, if the phone as key doesn't evolve into a reliable solution, a key fob is tried and true.

 

[Carotene]

Objectively, there's no question that BMW/Audi/Merc spend more on the materials in their car than Tesla does when comparing similar German cars in the $50K+ range to to the 3.

I also rented via Turo and generally agree with this statement. There is the unavoidable fact that EV batteries are expensive. Tesla has a fantastic battery, charger, and motor. They've spent their money wisely - where it counts. I've driven a couple of Subaru WRX's over the years. We joke that the WRX has the drive train of a $40k car with the interior of a $10k car. I'd personally rather have the $40k drivetrain because I care about performance vs. nappa leather.

That's not to say the TM3 interior is cheap. It's not. They just had to save some pennies here and there for that super expensive battery pack under the seats. WELL worth the trade-off IMO! If you want both, the model S is your car.

 

[cab]

I also rented via Turo and generally agree with this statement. There is the unavoidable fact that EV batteries are expensive. Tesla has a fantastic battery, charger, and motor. They've spent their money wisely - where it counts. I've driven a couple of Subaru WRX's over the years. We joke that the WRX has the drive train of a $40k car with the interior of a $10k car. I'd personally rather have the $40k drivetrain because I care about performance vs. nappa leather.

That's not to say the TM3 interior is cheap. It's not. They just had to save some pennies here and there for that super expensive battery pack under the seats. WELL worth the trade-off IMO! If you want both, the model S is your car.

This is one of those "what will the Europeans eventually release?" questions that could really impact Tesla...or not. The first GLIMPSE we are seeing of this involves the Jaguar i-Pace (which most of us have yet to see in person of course). So far, the reviews would SEEM to indicate better build quality and materials across the board than Tesla's offerings (3, S or X) at a price point that's pretty comparable to the S. That doesn't bode well for Tesla. The flipside is the interior tech, autopilot, and of course, supercharging. At least one friend of mine has canceled his Model 3 reservation and is looking at a CPO Model S to replace his P90DL when his lease is up in the Fall...or he will just wait it out until late next year to see the crop of other Euro EVs. Admittedly, I feel like we've all been "waiting" for that crop of EVs for a looong time.

Now Tesla could wow us all with the next generation Model S, but it has been crickets on that front...of course I didn't expect to see a gen 2 Roadster roll out of that Semi either a while back so who knows?!

 

[voip-ninja]

I also rented via Turo and generally agree with this statement. There is the unavoidable fact that EV batteries are expensive. Tesla has a fantastic battery, charger, and motor. They've spent their money wisely - where it counts. I've driven a couple of Subaru WRX's over the years. We joke that the WRX has the drive train of a $40k car with the interior of a $10k car. I'd personally rather have the $40k drivetrain because I care about performance vs. nappa leather.

That's not to say the TM3 interior is cheap. It's not. They just had to save some pennies here and there for that super expensive battery pack under the seats. WELL worth the trade-off IMO! If you want both, the model S is your car.

I think this is pretty accurate and I never implied the interior of the 3 is bad, it just isn’t at the level of German cars in the same price range.

Keep in mind that it was Musk boasting of a car that would better German rivals in every way that set the bar here, not overly high consumer expectations.

Better switches, soft touch dashboard, nicer steering wheel, use of a couple of different materials in the trim for texture and contrast (maybe something nicer than low rent piano plastic for center console) would have erased most of the perceived downgrades while still preserving the spacious modern design and wouldn’t have cost Tesla a pile of money.

Remember that the cars being belt now are supposed to have premium materials compared to the base model. Makes me wonder how Kia like the base model will be.

 

[Ejl80]

Keep in mind that it was Musk boasting of a car that would better German rivals in every way that set the bar here, not overly high consumer expectations.

Better switches, soft touch dashboard, nicer steering wheel, use of a couple of different materials in the trim for texture and contrast

Remember that the cars being belt now are supposed to have premium materials compared to the base model. Makes me wonder how Kia like the base model will be.

Honestly Kia interiors are really nice for the money.

Yes, making the center console something nicer and some more soft touch materials wouldn’t have added a lot of cost. As long as it drives better than a F30, I’m happy. I’m also thrilled to be able to get a “premium package” without having to have a sunroof.

 

[Marsnaut]

That is a far inferior operation to simply walking up with a fob in your pocket. If you were having success with the phone key you wouldn't have turn your bluetooth off and on all the time.

To be clear, I like the traditional fob (not keyless) and find the phone key to be a better alternative to that.

I turn off the bluetooth because I'm afraid of thieves using range extenders (which is also why I don't like the fob). I like having peace of mind and don't like auto lock on exit either. I prefer seeing the car lock itself because of my semi unrealistic fear that someone can enter my car in the minute it takes for the car to close.

If I am following correctly, the app opens the car via the internet, right ?
Then how do you start the car ?

Yes it connects via internet. I think unlocking from the car lets you start it (but if not, there is also a "Start" option in the menu that I've never tested). When my family first got the car, my dad forgot to physically tap the key below the B pillar camera and couldn't open it. I was miles away and used the phone to unlock the car and if I remember correctly, he was able to put it into drive without tapping the key in the center console.

 

[voip-ninja]

To be clear, I like the traditional fob (not keyless) and find the phone key to be a better alternative to that.

I turn off the bluetooth because I'm afraid of thieves using range extenders (which is also why I don't like the fob). I like having peace of mind and don't like auto lock on exit either. I prefer seeing the car lock itself because of my semi unrealistic fear that someone can enter my car in the minute it takes for the car to close.



Yes it connects via internet. I think unlocking from the car lets you start it (but if not, there is also a "Start" option in the menu that I've never tested). When my family first got the car, my dad forgot to physically tap the key below the B pillar camera and couldn't open it. I was miles away and used the phone to unlock the car and if I remember correctly, he was able to put it into drive without tapping the key in the center console.

I believe the app opens the car and does other things via the internet, but no internet should be required for the phone-as-key to function since it just uses Bluetooth on the phone to talk to the car.

In any event, it's a slick solution if it worked 100% of the time, but it doesn't. The key card is not an ideal backup option in my opinion although I appreciate the idea that it is a passive backup option that requires no battery and fits in your wallet.

My Nest thermostat allows the ability to give a one time passcode or a passcode good for a day or a week to someone who needs to be able to control the Nest devices in my house.

Many internet connected home door locks function similarly.

There is ZERO reason Tesla could not do the same thing, having someone download the Tesla app to their mobile phone and have you grant them a short term access pass to the car without them having the ability to do the same thing an owner does... and having the access expire automatically after a pre-set time... or have them re-request access if they need it and you can grant it remotely from thousands of miles away through the app.

This stuff is not rocket science and is the kind of stuff I expect a super smart super agile company like Tesla to do.

 

[slipnslider]

I turn off the bluetooth because I'm afraid of thieves using range extenders (which is also why I don't like the fob). I like having peace of mind and don't like auto lock on exit either. I prefer seeing the car lock itself because of my semi unrealistic fear that someone can enter my car in the minute it takes for the car to close.

It sounds like what you want is actually what I'd prefer too - an old fashioned keyless remote, non fob, non bluetooth. Just a remote with physical unlock/lock/trunk/alarm buttons and a battery that lasts 10 years.

 

[slipnslider]

Re: China. When sea levels rise I sure hope we won't be counting on China or Indonesia to fix it, b/c they won't.

Actually, when china decides to do something good for the planet, THEY JUST DO IT. They're going solar and EVs because they know they have to clean up their air. They don't have any republicans taking bribe money from polluters to prevent positive change from happening.

 

[slipnslider]

That being said, I’m pretty sure everyone here knows your opinion of the phone key. Is there a reason you have to spam every post with your dislike of it?

Yes there is. Because tesla reads this site. They need to know this is a massive problem and fix it. If everyone just shuts up and accepts a key that works MOST of the time if you're lucky, then that's what we'll all be stuck with.

 

[Gargantuar]

I think this is pretty accurate and I never implied the interior of the 3 is bad, it just isn’t at the level of German cars in the same price range.

Keep in mind that it was Musk boasting of a car that would better German rivals in every way that set the bar here, not overly high consumer expectations.

Better switches, soft touch dashboard, nicer steering wheel, use of a couple of different materials in the trim for texture and contrast (maybe something nicer than low rent piano plastic for center console) would have erased most of the perceived downgrades while still preserving the spacious modern design and wouldn’t have cost Tesla a pile of money.

Remember that the cars being belt now are supposed to have premium materials compared to the base model. Makes me wonder how Kia like the base model will be.

When talking about "same price range" with any EV I think we have to factor in more than the sticker price.

For someone driving 10k miles per year or more, living in Europe or Canada, just the fuel savings are 15 to 25 thousand dollars over a 10 year ownership. In this case I would compare (price wise) the 3 with something like Honda Civic SI, Subaru WRX. In reality it is way cheaper than a BMW 3 series. Driving a 3 is also quite exciting - for me the lack of gears is important, and I don't have to worry about excessive maintenance costs if I want to drive an insane amount of miles.

It's funny, when Tesla revealed the 3, I thought "oh, they haven't finished the interior yet". But now I totally love the simplicity.

 

[voip-ninja]

When talking about "same price range" with any EV I think we have to factor in more than the sticker price.

For someone driving 10k miles per year or more, living in Europe or Canada, just the fuel savings are 15 to 25 thousand dollars over a 10 year ownership. In this case I would compare (price wise) the 3 with something like Honda Civic SI, Subaru WRX. In reality it is way cheaper than a BMW 3 series. Driving a 3 is also quite exciting - for me the lack of gears is important, and I don't have to worry about excessive maintenance costs if I want to drive an insane amount of miles.

It's funny, when Tesla revealed the 3, I thought "oh, they haven't finished the interior yet". But now I totally love the simplicity.

That might be true for Europe but the bulk of Model 3 sales will be in US and depending on where a person lives the fuel savings compared to electric costs won't be that dramatic.

I have solar so it will not be a bad deal for me, I expect to save around $700 or so a year on fuel costs but a good portion of that is going to be eaten up by sky high Tesla Model 3 insurance costs.

I concede that for those who will keep the vehicle long term, at least up until the warranty runs out they should enjoy somewhat lower maintenance costs... depending on how much battery coolant and brake fluid swaps end up costing and how many miles they will drive.

 

[chronopc]

That might be true for Europe but the bulk of Model 3 sales will be in US and depending on where a person lives the fuel savings compared to electric costs won't be that dramatic.

I have solar so it will not be a bad deal for me, I expect to save around $700 or so a year on fuel costs but a good portion of that is going to be eaten up by sky high Tesla Model 3 insurance costs.

I concede that for those who will keep the vehicle long term, at least up until the warranty runs out they should enjoy somewhat lower maintenance costs... depending on how much battery coolant and brake fluid swaps end up costing and how many miles they will drive.

I'm saving a ton in gas. I'm getting about 3 cents per mile with the Model 3 vs. 12 cents per mile on gas. Where I live electricity is 13 cents per KwH and gas is about $3.75 a gallon.

I was totally expecting higher insurance costs but GEICO gave me a great quote. I ended up paying about the same as my brother who drives a Honda HRV.

 

[Ejl80]

I'm saving a ton in gas. I'm getting about 3 cents per mile with the Model 3 vs. 12 cents per mile on gas. Where I live electricity is 13 cents per KwH and gas is about $3.75 a gallon.

I was totally expecting higher insurance costs but GEICO gave me a great quote. I ended up paying about the same as my brother who drives a Honda HRV.

I'm on the other coast and electricity is 17.5 c kWh and gas is about $3.00 a gallon for premium. Still savings, but not as big.

 

[davedavedave]

I’ve entered the car with no LTE or Wi-Fi signal, which confirms that BLE is all that’s required - not an internet connection.

To be clear, I like the traditional fob (not keyless) and find the phone key to be a better alternative to that.

I turn off the bluetooth because I'm afraid of thieves using range extenders (which is also why I don't like the fob). I like having peace of mind and don't like auto lock on exit either. I prefer seeing the car lock itself because of my semi unrealistic fear that someone can enter my car in the minute it takes for the car to close.



Yes it connects via internet. I think unlocking from the car lets you start it (but if not, there is also a "Start" option in the menu that I've never tested). When my family first got the car, my dad forgot to physically tap the key below the B pillar camera and couldn't open it. I was miles away and used the phone to unlock the car and if I remember correctly, he was able to put it into drive without tapping the key in the center console.

where

 

[suwaneedad]

There are quite costly maintenace plans Model 3 (Maintenance Plan & Costs) HELP!!

Yeah, I'll be doing precisely none of that other than the drive unit fluid I suppose. I have a long-held belief that cars operate at their best when fiddled with the least...particularly when fiddled with by someone other than the owner. As I mentioned, the Nissan LEAF has had almost 7 years of completely trouble-free operation, despite me completely ignoring whatever the owner's manual says to do to it on a preventative basis. I expect the same from Tesla's EV (with the possible exception of any battery coolant since that concept doesn't exist in the LEAF).

 

[Marsnaut]

I’ve entered the car with no LTE or Wi-Fi signal, which confirms that BLE is all that’s required - not an internet connection.

I agree. I was responding to a post about using the app (which is internet only). Bluetooth doesn't require internet.

 

[voip-ninja]

Yeah, I'll be doing precisely none of that other than the drive unit fluid I suppose. I have a long-held belief that cars operate at their best when fiddled with the least...particularly when fiddled with by someone other than the owner. As I mentioned, the Nissan LEAF has had almost 7 years of completely trouble-free operation, despite me completely ignoring whatever the owner's manual says to do to it on a preventative basis. I expect the same from Tesla's EV (with the possible exception of any battery coolant since that concept doesn't exist in the LEAF).

I think you should have a long chat with an engineer about the wisdom of completely ignoring a maintenance schedule.

Do you ignore changing the oil on any of your ICE vehicles? If not, why?

 

[davedavedave]

There are quite costly maintenace plans Model 3 (Maintenance Plan & Costs) HELP!!

FYSA, I spoke with a Tesla ranger/tech today who mentioned that years 1,3 and 5 of the Model 3 maintenance plans would be handled by the mobile ranger teams. IMHO, if the prices are all the same,
that’s actually pretty cool, not having to visit the service center and waste a lot of time.

 

[voip-ninja]

FYSA, I spoke with a Tesla ranger/tech today who mentioned that years 1,3 and 5 of the Model 3 maintenance plans would be handled by the mobile ranger teams. IMHO, if the prices are all the same,
that’s actually pretty cool, not having to visit the service center and waste a lot of time.

That's probably because those years are nothing other than expensive inspections.

Still hard to believe there will be enough rangers to tend to it if there end up being 100,000 of these on the road in the next couple of years and 10% or more take Tesla up on the annual "maintenance".