Tesla 3 isn't perfect, but after a full day rental this BMW driver is buying one!

[Canuck]

So, a question if BMW's current (and now upcoming next gen) 3 series were electric with comparable range and pricing would you pick the Tesla over it or stick with the BMW? My assumption is the power/acceleration/drive would be similar. Would supercharging/AP/interior tech win out over the other BMW attributes or vice versa?

Here's my answer: They must have a comparable fast charging network to Teslas --- that is, banks of maintained fast chargers -- not some Chademos or CCS here and there and at dealerships -- they have to be along well-travelled routes with well-maintained banks of chargers -- similar to Tesla's network -- from BC to Florida and beyond. Then I'm in the door. After that, the comparisons can start and it won't take much to win me over from Tesla -- just a better overall vehicle. That's probably still asking for a lot, but it will happen -- not anytime soon of course, since the fast charger network and vehicles to use them take time to build and there's really no interest from anyone else, except to comply with damage settlements -- and that should make us even more sceptical when they have to be forced into building them. Not a good sign from the boiling frogs.

If you don't like the horrible key card, you can always try the horrible phone key.
Seriously tesla needs to just offer a fob and end this madness.

It works flawlessly with my wife's iPhone and she loves it. I asked where my fob for the S was the other day and she said to me: "Sucks to have a key." I looked at her and laughed. She said she was trying to sound like me and my comments about her BMW. She really loves the 3 but like so many BMW owners, including the OP, will only reluctantly admit it:

Tesla 3 isn't perfect,...

No sh!t Sherlock!

 

[SageBrush]

Either that or I lock/unlock the car directly from the app. Super easy compared to fidgeting with keys especially since I have my phone in hand

If I am following correctly, the app opens the car via the internet, right ?
Then how do you start the car ?

 

[voip-ninja]

So, a question if BMW's current (and now upcoming next gen) 3 series were electric with comparable range and pricing would you pick the Tesla over it or stick with the BMW? My assumption is the power/acceleration/drive would be similar.

Would supercharging/AP/interior tech win out over the other BMW attributes or vice versa?

I don't know what BMWs next generation G20 platform is going to be like, so don't know that I can comment.

I know that if you could wave a wand and make my current BMW electrified with similar pickup to the Tesla I would probably still choose the Tesla due to the forward cabin arrangement, better handling, access to super-charger network, etc.

 

[voip-ninja]

No sh!t Sherlock!

I don't know, maybe try dialing the hostility down a notch... or 10 notches.

You'll find exactly zero places I've ever said the BMW is perfect, far from it. However it is reasonable to compare one $50,000 product with another one unless you live in some kind of fantasy land.

Just like in any such comparison each product has strengths and weaknesses. I've named many. This may or may not benefit others making similar decisions.... and based on most of the responses from other BMW owners the comparison is helpful.

Tesla can solve this problem when they eventually get test drive cars into their stores and people can book a full 30 minute test drive. I expect even when the first ones arrive it will be quite a bit of time before that is possible.

For this reason I highly recommend for anyone who really wants to be able to make a decision and be comfortable with it they rent one on Turo.

 

[J X 3]

Facial recognition is not good to unlock the car as it needs a very wide angle , would waste power by being on 24/7 and at times it won't be able to see your face- if you are looking down or back or w/e.
Inside the car to identify the passengers it's ok and even better if it can 3D map gestures so you can do things without touching the display.

Fingerprint sensors on the door handle would work but the phone solution is better, if it would work well.
Biometrics also don't solve the guest mode side of things. It's worse than the keycard.

There will be fingerprint sensors in cars soon, likely to start the car and identify users and adjust settings.

And a note here, when corporations talk about how secure their biometrcis solutions are, they simply note the likelihood of someone else having the same fingerprint ,face and so on.
They do not talk about how easy it is to spoof it or hack it.

 

[North75]

My 2002 (E39) BMW 5-series is the least reliable car I've ever owned (I'm 47), other than a Volvo XC90 wagon we had for a few years. I'll never own another BMW (nor Volvo), based purely on the fact that BMW's engineers planned so much part failure into the car it was absolutely stunning to the point of being almost comical. Great car for five years. Then all hell broke loose (usually literally). Any plastic or rubber part had to be replaced between Years 6-11 (when I finally gave up on it), sometimes twice. The only path I'd take with a BMW would be via a lease. But it's academic anyway, since EVs are all I will ever own now, and BMW's thus far is a joke.

I think the newer BMW's are somewhat better as far as reliability goes, but I agree its not great. I had an '97 (actual) M3 and a '06 325xi and both required quite a bit of maintenance. I think they are engineered very well from a performance standpoint.. reliability, not so much. Extended warranties are definitely worth considering when buying.

 

[Canuck]

You'll find exactly zero places I've ever said the BMW is perfect, far from it.

I only quoted what you said -- your exact words, in fact:

Tesla 3 isn't perfect, but after a full day rental this BMW driver is buying one!

Why you flipped it around and said something else in your first quote above is, well, very telling. It speaks volumes, in fact.

I don't know, maybe try dialling the hostility down a notch... or 10 notches.

Sorry, that won't happen since there's no hostility at all. In fact, I put you in the same boat as my wife -- and I love her to death. I just think you have the same bias as she does, and many other BMW owners (or Mercedes or Porsche, etc.), and sometimes it takes me quoting your words back to you to show you that bias. To call that hostile might just be projection -- since I found your title quite hostile to Tesla, as if the 3 must meet perfection, like BMW. Actually, I found it funny, because what I quoted from you above is exactly how people like me took your title. And I didn't even have to tell you that, since you wrote it yourself above! -- so you must now admit it was hostile of you to raise the bar so high (or as high as it can possibly go) just for Tesla, right?

 

[cab]

I don't think the OP was "hostile" to Tesla with his title. Indeed, I think BMW has a WELL-DESERVED reputation for building fine driver's cars. I actually remember thinking the automotive press was on BMW's payroll for years. I thought they were all overpriced yuppie mobiles with inferior performance stats relative to their prices. Then I test drove and bought a used 97 328i sport 5-speed. I was like "OH...THIS is what they are talking about." It was the sublime combination of ride quality, handling and feedback that really sold me on the brand. I purchased 4 others after that - all used.

The flipside, of course, is the dang reliability and longevity once you put some miles on them. When my wife's E39 hit 100K miles it was like it hit an expiration counter. I was CONSTANTLY working on it (all DIY). I told a friend of mine "When you buy a pre-owned BMW you get a car...and a weekend hobby".

I do think BMW has lots some of its old magic in recent years and the automotive press appears to agree. Sales haven't suffered though as the average person just doesn't care about the "driver" part any more. Heck, as a long time "car guy" I always ask friends to show me their new cars whenever they get a new one. Invariably, we walk outside and they pull up all the tech and eventually I have to say "Um, can we actually DRIVE it?".

 

[bmah]

I only quoted what you said -- your exact words, in fact. Why you flipped it around and said something else in your quote above is, well, very telling. It speaks volumes, in fact. Thank you for that.

This isn't my forum to moderate, but I'd like to point out that your commentary on said quote included a thinly-obfuscated profanity ending in the word "Sherlock", which looked pretty hostile to me. If your intent was otherwise, maybe best to clarify that.

Bruce.

 

[chronopc]

FaceID, touchID, etc have all been defeated. Apple says FaceID is much more secure than touchID. Not that it is impenetrable. FaceID is for convenience on a device I never let get more than a few feet from me. I’m guessing you don’t put your car in your pocket.

Nothing is impenetrable but you make it sound like using biometrics is the same as having no security.

 

[voip-ninja]

I don't think the OP was "hostile" to Tesla with his title. Indeed, I think BMW has a WELL-DESERVED reputation for building fine driver's cars. I actually remember thinking the automotive press was on BMW's payroll for years. I thought they were all overpriced yuppie mobiles with inferior performance stats relative to their rices. Then I test drove and bought a used 97 328i sport 5-speed. I was like "OH...THIS is what they are talking about." It was the sublime combination of ride quality, handling and feedback that really sold me on the brand. I purchased 4 others after that - all used.

The flipside, of course, is the dang reliability and longevity once you put some miles on them. When my wife's E39 hit 100K miles it was like it hit an expiration counter. I was CONSTANTLY working on it (all DIY). I told a friend of mine "When you buy a pre-owned BMW you get a car, and a weekend hobby".

I do think BMW has lots some of its old magic in recent years and the automotive press appears to agree. Sales haven't suffered though as the average person just doesn't care about the "driver" part any more. Heck, as a long time "car guy" I always ask friends to show me their new cars whenever they get a new one. Invariably, we walk outside and they pull up all the tech and eventually I have to say "Um, can we actually DRIVE it?".

On the one hand the cost to maintain the newer generation cars has gone down a tick from prior years since many maintenance items are only needed once every year or three (oil changes at 10,000-12,000 and even 15,000 miles are typical now) compared to the older ones, but yes they still cost quite a lot to fix if something substantial fails outside of the warranty and the cost of parts in the USA for these cars is substantially more than in Europe.

On the flip flop, Tesla parts are by no stretch cheap and Tesla have really stymied the ability of home mechanics such as yourself from repairing the vehicles.

In the case of a BMW someone "buying" one can insulate themselves against some of the risk by leasing the car, letting BMW take on risk of depreciation and making sure that the entire time they "own" the car it is not only under warranty but also normal maintenance items are taken care of.

As far as driving qualities.... BMW really have been letting it go over the past generation or two. Certainly the F30 I have now has little in common with the E46 I owned once upon a time when it comes to handling and driver feedback. On the other hand the fit, finish and materials of the BMW are about as good as it gets in a mass produced car, and the technology they are putting into their dino burners is pretty darn good.

 

[Swampgator]

I think Ninja has a long history of being fairly hostile to Tesla fans especially. He is coming around and I think his original intentions were to try and be objective, but other long time forum members, myself included, have pretty good memories. That said, I don't think the Sherlock comment was intended as an outright attack. Just pointing out some of Ninjas past comments (at least in spirit) to other posters. Let's keep things constructive though. Ninja has experience and wrote a fairly well balanced summary. Great job and thank you.

 

[suwaneedad]

On the flip flop, Tesla parts are by no stretch cheap and Tesla have really stymied the ability of home mechanics such as yourself from repairing the vehicles.

My expectation with Model 3 is that it will not require maintenance. Nissan accomplished that with its LEAF, nearly a decade ago. I bought a 2012 model LEAF, new on 12/30/11, and have thus far spent a grand total of $200 maintaining it (driver window switch five years in, 12v battery six years in, and a cabin air filter because I was feeling generous), and tires every ~30k miles (LEAF does seem to chew through tires at ~2x the speed of the related tire warranty...a problem more for the tire company than for me).

 

[Moderatefan]

Nothing is impenetrable but you make it sound like using biometrics is the same as having no security.

Not to mention you have to watch closely how the companies might use your biometrics. For example, some people like to do DNA testing...then the data becomes sort of public and they catch your relatives based on that...
Police used free genealogy database to track Golden State Killer suspect, investigator says - CNN

 

[brkaus]

I think Ninja has a long history of being fairly hostile to Tesla fans especially. He is coming around and I think his original intentions were to try and be objective, but other long time forum members, myself included, have pretty good memories. That said, I don't think the Sherlock comment was intended as an outright attack. Just pointing out some of Ninjas past comments (at least in spirit) to other posters. Let's keep things constructive though. Ninja has experience and wrote a fairly well balanced summary. Great job and thank you.

I’ve read ninja posts, just because voip in name

I think has gone back and forth in views but looks like kept an open mind. As pointed out, it isn’t without a few downsides.

Btw - my 2002 E46 was definitely my least reliable car - everything failed right after warranty or TSB expired. My 1995 e36 M3 perhaps the most reliable - except brakes and tires. But that was my fault.

 

[Canuck]

This isn't my forum to moderate, but I'd like to point out that your commentary on said quote included a thinly-obfuscated profanity ending in the word "Sherlock", which looked pretty hostile to me. If your intent was otherwise, maybe best to clarify that.

Bruce.

Seriously? You've never said that phrase to someone, or if you did, it was hostile? I've said it while laughing -- as it's been taken with laughs since it's a common phrase, "often used towards someone who states the obvious." That's why I used it -- and no clarification is needed.

And if you find very mild profanities like the one used in that phrase "hostile" then I guess I really shouldn't be surprised comedians are reluctant to play college campuses, even though it is surprising. Our institutes of knowledge are being taken hostage, by people who are so thin skinned that jokes are now out. We've all gone nuts and it's made even worse since we are told to overlook the OP's blatant and open hostility towards Tesla (or that it doesn't even exist), not only in the title to this thread, but his long history of posts, yet I'm hostile by quoting a common phrase that is really just a joking way to say "duh!". But I've got it. We are now being told we must only skim the surface of what's posted here and those of us who spot open hostility must just take it -- no jokes and no comments back about it are allowed, or we will be labelled "hostile".

I think my comments were spot on. "Tesla 3 isn't perfect but.. this BMW driver is buying one" (what does that mean to you?) -- and it's not open to be picked apart with a common satirical reference to Sherlock Holmes? It's really sad what's happened around here - the eggshells we must walk on are sure piling up high.

 

[Moderatefan]

My expectation with Model 3 is that it will not require maintenance.

There are quite costly maintenace plans Model 3 (Maintenance Plan & Costs) HELP!!

 

[pkalhan]

I actually enjoyed Ninja's assessment and I like the fact that at times he has been critical of Tesla. I am rooting for Tesla and am hoping they succeed as a company but by no means do I think they are the greatest company to has ever existed...they make cars, other than that they don't do anything for me.

I like Ninja's comments because he would say what I feel sometimes. I do not think Tesla is perfect and when there is a flaw or something that they could improve on, he calls them out on it which is why his review has been the best review I have read on this forum because it was coming from someone who had his doubts about Tesla but now after experiencing the car, he is sold. This is what makes me want it even more. If the Model 3 can convince a guy like Ninja then I know I will not be disappointed. He was only comparing it to BMW because 1) he owns one and 2) BMW is (or used to be known as) the Ultimate Driving Machine so comparing the Model 3 to a BMW is a pretty fair comparison. FYI, prior to putting a deposit on the Model 3 two years ago, I was looking into buying a BMW myself so this was very helpful for me.

 

[Moderatefan]

just because voip in name

In fact, he was "void"ed during the Alcantaragate by the article referring to his complaint
I thought that was sort of funny.

 

[Canuck]

There are quite costly maintenace plans Model 3 (Maintenance Plan & Costs) HELP!!

But you don't need them and not doing them won't void the warranty. Try that with an ICE and not replacing the oil and see what happens to your warranty. I wasted $2k with 4 years of maintenance with my S. It was $500 for a new set of wipers every year, basically.

I actually enjoyed Ninja's assessment and I like the fact that at times he has been critical of Tesla.

Me too. Criticism will only make Tesla better. I've criticized Tesla a lot. That's not the problem. I just wish we could debate things openly and jokingly and when we read a title that so blatantly jumps out at some of us, we can call it out with our own views, and even a "no poop Sherlock", without being called hostile.