Tesla Alternative?

[kpanda17]

In the USA and EVs, VW is a nobody. Tesla, Kia/Hun/Gen, Polestar, GM, and Ford have the mid market.

BMW, Rivian, Licid, Porsche have the high end.

VW should have let Herbert Diess's continue leading for VW would be in a completely better place. He was a visionary like Elon. He needed his freedom to reshape VW.

Now VW is a mess.

 

[pdk42]

My wife had an early ID3. We ran it for almost 3 years and finally swapped it for an A3 PHEV. My summary is really this:

- They got the A team in for the basic engineering (battery, drive unit, chassis). It really is very well executed at the automotive engineering level delivering excellent driving characteristics and cabin refinement. Build quality is sound too.

- They got a bunch of muppets in to design the compute infrastructure and the software. Absolutely appalling design and execution. Everything is just amateurish - in-car hardware and software, phone app, back-end servers, OTA, …. Just a truly awful experience.

- They got a bunch of penny-pinching accountants in for the interior design. Really poor quality and design. As @Roy Batty said, the sound in particular was terrible - uber cheap speakers and fitted only in the front.

- They found the team that won the 1998 “best UI” award to do the UI design on the infotainment. Utter rubbish.

Despite the really good basic engineering though, the overall result is way less than we should expect off VW. They rushed it out when they didn’t need to and it shows.

 

[kpanda17]

My wife had an early ID3. We ran it for almost 3 years and finally swapped it for an A3 PHEV. My summary is really this:

- They got the A team in for the basic engineering (battery, drive unit, chassis). It really is very well executed at the automotive engineering level delivering excellent driving characteristics and cabin refinement. Build quality is sound too.

- They got a bunch of muppets in to design the compute infrastructure and the software. Absolutely appalling design and execution. Everything is just amateurish - in-car hardware and software, phone app, back-end servers, OTA, …. Just a truly awful experience.

- They got a bunch of penny-pinching accountants in for the interior design. Really poor quality and design. As @Roy Batty said, the sound in particular was terrible - uber cheap speakers and fitted only in the front.

- They found the team that won the 1998 “best UI” award to do the UI design on the infotainment. Utter rubbish.

Despite the really good basic engineering though, the overall result is way less than we should expect off VW. They rushed it out when they didn’t need to and it shows.

What made you not next get a pure BEV? And you are on a Tesla forum?

 

[pdk42]

What made you not next get a pure BEV? And you are on a Tesla forum?

My wife had a number of bad experiences with public charging using the ID3 (chargers out of service, long queues at overused sites, problems with payment, slow charge rates). In my view, Tesla still has a major advantage with their SUC network (at least in the UK). I personally wouldn’t consider an EV from any other manufacturer at the moment if I needed the car to go places!

 

[Zilla91]

Has anyone got any experience with the Cupra Born?

Same basic car as the ID3 but I’ve not heard any complaints about the infotainment system, it’s much better looking than the ID3 and the interior seems a much nicer place

 

[Roy Batty]

Has anyone got any experience with the Cupra Born?

Same basic car as the ID3 but I’ve not heard any complaints about the infotainment system, it’s much better looking than the ID3 and the interior seems a much nicer place

It was out that bit later so avoided some of the early niggles the ID.3 had, as a ID.3 owner it was a bit annoying to see a 'nicer' car come out so soon.

Not sure if it had quite the kit the ID.3 had, cameras and such.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Keyfob is good, can unlock the charge port from that so no messing with the app on the way out of the house.

If you buy a Tesla keyfob that has a charge-port button too. Or a Tesla Wall charger ("unlock button" on the wand)

VW should have let Herbert Diess's continue leading

I thought he was impressive too. I was expecting Tesla to snap him up .... but I assume his Gardening Leave has finished now, so he must be doing something else.

They got a bunch of muppets in to design the compute infrastructure and the software.

I have always assumed it was hampered by the numerous subcontractors for all the "bits", and all the problems of trying to maintain software on shifting sands.

 

[Roy Batty]

If you buy a Tesla keyfob that has a charge-port button too. Or a Tesla Wall charger ("unlock button" on the wand)

I'm loathe to pay £170 for the fob, and it looks like it has no keyring point anyway so you have to get one of those silicon cases?

Got a Zappi when I bought my ID.3 so no chance of me getting a Tesla charger.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I'm loathe to pay £170 for the fob

I only looked at the first result for ID3 key fob purchase (and you would have got the Fobs with the car of course)

VW dealer want £320 for the transponder and £70 to code it

Either way, the MS (and MX I think) has a "release button" under the charger flap. Pity Tesla didn't include that on M3 / MY. Car has to be unlocked, but that can be achieved with phone-in-pocket by opening a door

 

[spdpsba]

opening a door

And then closing it - which cannot be done just by pushing it - you have to open the door and close it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

you have to open the door and close it

Yup. I do that with the back door - open and close. The car is still unlocked (for a while)

Its not great! but I find it OK

 

[Roy Batty]

I only looked at the first result for ID3 key fob purchase (and you would have got the Fobs with the car of course)



Either way, the MS (and MX I think) has a "release button" under the charger flap. Pity Tesla didn't include that on M3 / MY. Car has to be unlocked, but that can be achieved with phone-in-pocket by opening a door

Yeah that's the thing, never had to buy another fob as you got two with the car.

A double click on the unlock would unlock the charge port.

A button would make sense just as long as the car is unlocked, which is how I presume it works.

It's all just a bit annoying, one of those ergonomic fails.

 

[HaggisMan]

I do wish VW were doing better with their software. Reports online suggest the Caraid division that writes their software is woeful. This doesn’t bode well for the upcoming A6 etron and Macan EV which ought to be top drawer efforts, unless the software is sh!t

 

[Roy Batty]

I do wish VW were doing better with their software. Reports online suggest the Caraid division that writes their software is woeful. This doesn’t bode well for the upcoming A6 etron and Macan EV which ought to be top drawer efforts, unless the software is sh!t

It does sound like the new software on next year's cars come, finally, with some really useful stuff like battery conditioning, either via nav or manually. About time and we'd been promised as an upgrade on older cars but it looks like it'll never appear.

I don't know if the solutions in Audi or Porsche have anything to do with the VW version though, Porsche has had much better nav and route planning IIRC.

 

[Foucault]

Has anyone got any experience with the Cupra Born?

Same basic car as the ID3 but I’ve not heard any complaints about the infotainment system, it’s much better looking than the ID3 and the interior seems a much nicer place

Motoring journalist Tom Ford ran a Cupra Born for six months. Here's his long term review Cupra long term review. There's also a reviews of the infotainment in reports 3 and 5 it looks like the infotainment has exactly the same problems as the ID3 and other VW products. Autogefühl also said pretty much the same thing when the Cupra Born launched (see Autogefűhl)

 

[12Pack]

Thanks, Emeya a possibility certainly. Just not sure what it adds vs the MS apart from the nicer interior.

Not promising. The Eletre, while having nice decorations, amazingly has less space than a MS, and disappointing efficiency and range.

 

[Zilla91]

Who’d have thought a big old SUV is less economical than a sleek saloon

Looks pretty nice but a) it’s too big and b) it’s an SUV

 

[kpanda17]

VW is desperate

 

[WannabeOwner]

A button would make sense just as long as the car is unlocked, which is how I presume it works.

Yup. Car has to be unlocked to release the charge wand

It's all just a bit annoying, one of those ergonomic fails.

Indeed. It is so convenient on MS surprised they haven't done it on the others.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Not promising.

Not seen his videos before. Very fluid delivery, full of information without repeating himself etc. etc.

Could have done with a longer journey comparison on range - although owner says his MY was significantly better. I know we differ on this point, but this is 300 miles real-world (single journey, not based on only tootling to the shops on a cold day!), and that's enough for me.

I'd want to know how accessible the regular features I would use - for example, trip consumption display graph and projection to destination. The thing he showed (whilst wandering around all the CONFIGs) looked to be buried a bit deep. Hot Key might be available though.

Dunno about camera wing mirrors. I am sure I would prefer them, rather than big sticky-out mirrors, but do your eyes have to change focal length whenever you look at the screen? Maybe that's a non-issue - I have no experience.