Tesla Alternative?

[pdk42]

VW is desperate
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I get the impression that Cariad is a huge organisation (by software dev standards) with all sorts of bad practices. It’s going to take a Herculean effort to turn it around. I remember some years ago when people were clamouring for more nav features on Telsa (esp intermediate waypoints) and Elon himself posted a reply saying something along the lines of “not going to happen soon because I’m keeping the software teams small so they stay efficient and agile”. Seems VW did almost the opposite by merging multiple smaller groups into the Cariad monster.

Things haven’t got better with time either. Just go to the VW ID Facebook group and there are endless threads on software problems still. Just recently there have been many instances of the back end servers being out of action.

 

[Foucault]

Not seen his videos before. Very fluid delivery, full of information without repeating himself etc. etc.

Could have done with a longer journey comparison on range - although owner says his MY was significantly better. I know we differ on this point, but this is 300 miles real-world (single journey, not based on only tootling to the shops on a cold day!), and that's enough for me.

I'd want to know how accessible the regular features I would use - for example, trip consumption display graph and projection to destination. The thing he showed (whilst wandering around all the CONFIGs) looked to be buried a bit deep. Hot Key might be available though.

Dunno about camera wing mirrors. I am sure I would prefer them, rather than big sticky-out mirrors, but do your eyes have to change focal length whenever you look at the screen? Maybe that's a non-issue - I have no experience.

The side cameras instead of mirrors are an option costing £1,999. At that price I’d stick with normal mirrors and put up with fractionly higher consumption. Speaking of which it is pretty high in the Eletre, so will be interesting to see how much better the Emeya (the saloon on the same platform) is when it comes out next year.

 

[Js1977]

Not promising. The Eletre, while having nice decorations, amazingly has less space than a MS, and disappointing efficiency and range.

90k starting point just didn't seem good value to me either. Other than that, it looks like a nice bit of kit on the surface at least.

 

[pdk42]

Not promising. The Eletre, while having nice decorations, amazingly has less space than a MS, and disappointing efficiency and range.

Efficiency aside, this looks like a very good first attempt at an EV by Lotus (well, Geely/Volvo/Polestar etc). The software looks remarkably good given that it’s the first iteration. But at £100k it’s out of most people’s price range.

 

[spdpsba]

But at £100k it’s out of most people’s price range.

I think it will help Tesla to do their own ‘modern’, out of the ordinary disruptive stuff without getting distracted by some rich owners wanting the same features from their previous ‘luxury’ german cars. Once these rich people move away from the Tesla bandwagon for all their green credentials, Tesla can go ahead in full steam with the Tesla vision - may be some flyby wire technique to drive the car rather than the steering wheel .

I’ll get my coat.

 

[Js1977]

I’ll get my coat.

Let me get that for you...

I still think as value for money, Tesla is at the front, depending what what your needs are of course.

If you dont care about innovation or you think eye candy is where innovation, then Tesla is not for most people (hold that thought for a minute)

Personally, I would like a porche with tesla technology. The porche because you know when you get in it, it will drive great (Strangely I say this never having owned or driven one and you can tell this because I cant spell it) and tesla side for technology.

 

[Zilla91]

If you dont care about innovation

Must be in some kind of alternate universe where replacing functioning parking sensors with something that doesn't work, a yoke instead of a steering wheel, buttons instead of indicator stalks and a gear selector that's on a touchscreen is seen as innovation.

Back on planet Earth, it's seen more as cynical penny pinching.

 

[Js1977]

Must be in some kind of alternate universe where replacing functioning parking sensors with something that doesn't work, a yoke instead of a steering wheel, buttons instead of indicator stalks and a gear selector that's on a touchscreen is seen as innovation.

Back on planet Earth, it's seen more as cynical penny pinching.

Personally, I dont disagree.

However your are in the right thread... So... what is the alternative?

 

[spdpsba]

Back on planet Earth, it's seen more as cynical penny pinching

By rich owners who can afford £60000 car with dead cow and all bells and whistles. Elon is doing it for commoners, so losing a stalk here and gear stick there if it reduces the price to another £2000 we will take it. An all inclusive saloon electric car like Model 3 for around £33000-35000 is a revolution and if you want stalk and gear stick you still have your German luxury car for £60000.

 

[Zilla91]

So... what is the alternative?

Depends on what you're looking for. Different horses for different courses.

Luckily for me I have at least another 2 years to go before I have to worry about it

Elon is doing it for commoners

eLoN iS dOInG iT fOr CoMmOnErs

 

[zoros]

Not forgetting the Tesla M2 coming out in 2024 at around $25,000!!!
Musk isn't penny pinching - c'mon.....he's not in that space. He's changed the highlander to suit what he thinks the future might tolerate. He's changing cars as a mode of transport, full stop. That is Musk - he is an innovator not a follower. It might be that the mods to the new gen M3 don't go down well with the customer - in that case he'll change back but atleast he continues to push the boundaries.
And I 'think' that is why peeps buy Tesla's - cutting edge and streets ahead of any other EV (still!!).
I have owned Porsche, Maserati, Merc blah blah, but since my wife bought a Tesla M3 - my God! I fell in love with it because it has sparked a sense of adventure and learning in me that I used to have when I first drove cars. That is no mean feat. Yes (IMO) the car is damn ugly to look at (entry level Mazda from the front and Mondeo from the rear) and the cockpit really sucks aesthetically - yuck. But I look beyond this and see Musk written all over this car.
One surely has to agree that he is possibly one of the greatest inventors in the world = and tesla owners get to own a piece of it.

Tesla reinvents carmaking with quiet breakthrough

Tesla has combined a series of innovations to make a technological breakthrough that could transform the way it makes electric vehicles and help Elon Musk achieve his aim of halving production costs.

www.reuters.com

https://eepower.com/market-insights/tesla-kicks-off-future-of-lfp-batteries-in-evs/

 

[pdk42]

By rich owners who can afford £60000 car with dead cow and all bells and whistles. Elon is doing it for commoners, so losing a stalk here and gear stick there if it reduces the price to another £2000 we will take it. An all inclusive saloon electric car like Model 3 for around £33000-35000 is a revolution and if you want stalk and gear stick you still have your German luxury car for £60000.

Removing stalks, USS, rain sensor etc might save £100 if you’re lucky. It’s not about cost saving, it’s about a design philosophy.

 

[pdk42]

Not forgetting the Tesla M2 coming out in 2024 at around $25,000!!!
Musk isn't penny pinching - c'mon.....he's not in that space. He's changed the highlander to suit what he thinks the future might tolerate. He's changing cars as a mode of transport, full stop. That is Musk - he is an innovator not a follower. It might be that the mods to the new gen M3 don't go down well with the customer - in that case he'll change back but atleast he continues to push the boundaries.
And I 'think' that is why peeps buy Tesla's - cutting edge and streets ahead of any other EV (still!!).
I have owned Porsche, Maserati, Merc blah blah, but since my wife bought a Tesla M3 - my God! I fell in love with it because it has sparked a sense of adventure and learning in me that I used to have when I first drove cars. That is no mean feat. Yes (IMO) the car is damn ugly to look at (entry level Mazda from the front and Mondeo from the rear) and the cockpit really sucks aesthetically - yuck. But I look beyond this and see Musk written all over this car.
One surely has to agree that he is possibly one of the greatest inventors in the world = and tesla owners get to own a piece of it.

Tesla reinvents carmaking with quiet breakthrough

Tesla has combined a series of innovations to make a technological breakthrough that could transform the way it makes electric vehicles and help Elon Musk achieve his aim of halving production costs.

www.reuters.com

https://eepower.com/market-insights/tesla-kicks-off-future-of-lfp-batteries-in-evs/

Elon gets a lot of mention here, but I suspect he’s not the prime driver behind most of Tesla’s design decisions. I’m not saying he’s not heavily engaged in the business (or has been at various stages in the past), but ascribing every move the company makes to him alone is surely just wrong.

 

[spdpsba]

it’s about a design philosophy.

The group on this forum do not accept that, they all think it is cost saving. So just give them what they want!

 

[Js1977]

Depends on what you're looking for. Different horses for different courses.

This is what I keep saying... Bottom line is...what is your tesla alternative or you can always fantasise a bit and say what would be instead I suppose.

Luckily for me I have at least another 2 years to go before I have to worry about it

Then dont

 

[Zilla91]

Not forgetting the Tesla M2 coming out in 2024 at around $25,000!!!

Awww, so naive. When was the last time Tesla released something on time?

 

[spdpsba]

When was the last time Tesla released something on time?

I think you haven’t had a VW or other German cars OTA updates . Unverified sources tells a 2 year delay for some OTA updates!

 

[Roy Batty]

Elon gets a lot of mention here, but I suspect he’s not the prime driver behind most of Tesla’s design decisions. I’m not saying he’s not heavily engaged in the business (or has been at various stages in the past), but ascribing every move the company makes to him alone is surely just wrong.

I think Elon has been involved in the decisions for the yoke, indicators and the complete reliance on cameras rather than USS and radar.

He's been very vocal about self driving cars and it's a clear move in that direction.

Design decisions would not remove USS, and I don't believe the design department would be allowed to remove indicators, it's a very US centric move, to say the least, and a corporation wouldn't do that when they sell so many vehicles in Europe, an individual would.

 

[Js1977]

Removing stalks, USS, rain sensor etc might save £100 if you’re lucky. It’s not about cost saving, it’s about a design philosophy.

In the words of Rumpelstiltskin... Everything comes at a price. Can you calculate even £50x the cars sold?

Yes this decision might affect future sales but here is the thing. Post pandemic allot of people seem to be willing to take a plunge into he unknown due to the major loss of life and you only live once and all that... Its wild west out there for those with disposable income or very good credit rating and some in-between ....

 

[Zilla91]

I think you haven’t had a VW or other German cars OTA updates . Unverified sources tells a 2 year delay for some OTA updates!

What does VW OTA's have to do with Tesla delivering actual cars?