Lord Farquad
2022 MYLR W/B/20s/Tow bar. Previously 2021 M3SR+
MG Cybster spotted testing in the UK (RHD). Would anyone waiting for the Tesla Roadster consider one of these?
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Tesla Alternative?
- Thread starter GarethWhyte
- Start date
12Pack
Member
This is more of an MX5 alternative than a Tesla roadster one. But unlike an MX5, it looks more about style than substance. The chassis specs are not promising from a power-to
-weight perspective. It’s heavier than a Model S!
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I watched BatteryLife YouTube on his recently acquired VW ID7
Some points I found interesting
Initial Welcome Screen requires OK confirmation every time
Turn off Lane Assist and Overspeed Warning (every time - but that appeared to be a regulatory requirement [he is in Germany] and easy to do)
Select Drive for Standard Regen and again for "B" stronger regen (every time, I think)
Blinkers a bit loud ... (couldn't they be made to increase in volume if left on ...)
Pedestrian warning almost inaudible from cockpit (I find same for MY, I find it noticeably louder when in reverse) [He says he could hear it much more audibly in his previous ID3)
Quiet, comfortable, enough power, steering very controllable - summary = "Amazing"
Confident at speed on wet road, and quiet
Good turning circle
Top speed 181 KMH (112 MPH)
Cruise
Starts from settings previously used (rather than specific "set" settings) (Speed limiter, adaptive cruise control, travel assist)
Adjust 1 / 10 KPH (light/strong press or swipe)
He liked Travel Assist
Head-Up shows distance to car in front
Deliberately steer against Travel Assist and it will adjust lane position (i.e. more left/right of centre) accordingly - nice idea.
Light touch on steering wheel avoids nags. Nag = initial visual warning, then red message (also on Head-Up display) and beep, then a sudden brake (to wake you up! - nice idea) and continuous beeping (dunno after that, he didn't let it continue)
Slows for tight corners
No overspeed possible in Travel Assist (I think - although a setting for whether to reduce speed for limit signs so not sure on that point)
Lane change with Indicator. Head-Up shows lane-change-arrow, apparently lane change is quick
Regen a bit stronger than ID3 - no one-pedal-driving ("VW Limits because of safety")
Some points I found interesting
Initial Welcome Screen requires OK confirmation every time
Turn off Lane Assist and Overspeed Warning (every time - but that appeared to be a regulatory requirement [he is in Germany] and easy to do)
Select Drive for Standard Regen and again for "B" stronger regen (every time, I think)
Blinkers a bit loud ... (couldn't they be made to increase in volume if left on ...)
Pedestrian warning almost inaudible from cockpit (I find same for MY, I find it noticeably louder when in reverse) [He says he could hear it much more audibly in his previous ID3)
Quiet, comfortable, enough power, steering very controllable - summary = "Amazing"
Confident at speed on wet road, and quiet
Good turning circle
Top speed 181 KMH (112 MPH)
Cruise
Starts from settings previously used (rather than specific "set" settings) (Speed limiter, adaptive cruise control, travel assist)
Adjust 1 / 10 KPH (light/strong press or swipe)
He liked Travel Assist
Head-Up shows distance to car in front
Deliberately steer against Travel Assist and it will adjust lane position (i.e. more left/right of centre) accordingly - nice idea.
Light touch on steering wheel avoids nags. Nag = initial visual warning, then red message (also on Head-Up display) and beep, then a sudden brake (to wake you up! - nice idea) and continuous beeping (dunno after that, he didn't let it continue)
Slows for tight corners
No overspeed possible in Travel Assist (I think - although a setting for whether to reduce speed for limit signs so not sure on that point)
Lane change with Indicator. Head-Up shows lane-change-arrow, apparently lane change is quick
Regen a bit stronger than ID3 - no one-pedal-driving ("VW Limits because of safety")
pdk42
Active Member
My wife had an ID3 for a couple of years and I recognise much of what he’s saying in that car too. VW’s ID cars have some excellent chassis and suspension design making them quiet, refined, and very smooth riding. It’s for sure the highlight of the cars.
But the infotainment was a real mess in the ID3, and whilst it’s definitely better in the ID7, it’s clear some of the poor original DNA is still there (e.g. welcome screen, lane assist always on at startup).
And then there’s the driving experience. The D/B drive select is not the end of the world, but the fixation that the German marques have of making EV’s only work in “creep mode” (like the old fluid-coupled auto gearboxes) is really disappointing. Regen isn’t as strong as it could be either. I also wonder if they’ve fixed the poor regen/friction brake blending that the ID3 has. Unlike Tesla, VW cars use regen in the early stages of brake pedal application, blending in friction brakes as you press harder. It’s sort of OK in principle, but the problem with the ID3 is that the pressure needed to get heavy friction braking is disproportionately high leading to many drivers going into a panic mode if they need to suddenly brake hard. I saw many posts from early ID drivers claiming that the brakes failed to work. In truth it was because they weren’t pressing hard enough after being lulled into a false mental model of how much pressure is needed for a certain amount of braking force.
Maybe VW have fixed this braking problem now, but I much prefer the simplicity of the Tesla system - strong regen on the accelerator and leave the brake pedal to apply friction brakes only. Trying to blend the two is complex and hard to get right.
One thing where the VW is streets ahead of Tesla though is in autonomy. Travel Assist is WAY more useful and reliable than AP. Tesla’s AP is now an embarrassing mess outside of North America. I’ve virtually given up using it.
Finally, it seems that whilst VW are catching up in battery thermal management (the ID7 gets pre conditioning -whoo hoo), efficiency is still much worse than a Model 3 or Y. So while I think the ID7 is the best VW EV to date, there’s still work to be done.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Yeah, disappointing. BatteryLIfe has done two YouTubes on consumption (winter conditions -2C - +2C):
110 km/h or 68MPH = 191 Wh / km or 307 Wh / mile (Range = 241 miles)
130 km/h or 81MPH = 240 Wh / km or 386 Wh / mile (Range = 189 miles "That's not amazing, I'm a bit disappointed" (10% less than he expected)
... Climate used 2kW "because I don't have a heat pump")(From memory can't use ECO mode above 110 km/h)
EV’s really do need that leap in battery tech. Once you factor in trying to keep it charged to 80% max most of the time and having to look to charge maybe around 20% to give you a buffer incase the chargers are full or worse broken. The range you have to play in most of the time is way too little for a good road trip.
Just been all around Wales. I think it would be very tricky to do with an EV, more so a non Tesla one. Maybe for the more remote road trips need to tow a 22KW diesel generator behind you? Think can get one for around £8k, stick it on a trailer. Cheaper than the Cybertruck extended range battery if not the marketing message they are going for.
Just been all around Wales. I think it would be very tricky to do with an EV, more so a non Tesla one. Maybe for the more remote road trips need to tow a 22KW diesel generator behind you? Think can get one for around £8k, stick it on a trailer. Cheaper than the Cybertruck extended range battery if not the marketing message they are going for.
I had a strange experience a week or two ago.
9pm ish and our doorbell rang...there was an AA man and a sheepish EV owner asking if they could use my Zappi as he didn't have enough charge to get home! We live at the end of a cul-de-sac in a small village so they must have searched quite a whole before finding us!
Naturally I said 'no problem' and he went to retrieve his car - a Mercedes EQV. He said he needed 12 miles to get home....so I was thinking 4 or 5 kW should do it....how wrong I was! 10 kW gave him an estimated 12 miles of range.
9pm ish and our doorbell rang...there was an AA man and a sheepish EV owner asking if they could use my Zappi as he didn't have enough charge to get home! We live at the end of a cul-de-sac in a small village so they must have searched quite a whole before finding us!
Naturally I said 'no problem' and he went to retrieve his car - a Mercedes EQV. He said he needed 12 miles to get home....so I was thinking 4 or 5 kW should do it....how wrong I was! 10 kW gave him an estimated 12 miles of range.
Ouch. Fine if you are OK to pay extra in normal ICE world but maybe not so acceptable in EV land at the moment. You’d hog public chargers more often and need them more of the time as well.
Nothing wrong with charging to 100% when on a road trip - it even says that on the charging page
12Pack
Member
Well, range has effectively doubled in the 6 years from my first MS to my current one. We don’t need to use public chargers on the road for pleasure trips now - just overnight destination charging. And it will get better, but not on European cars which are typically not optimized for BEV use. And certainly not for SUV styles like the iX (aerodynamically-poor, pedestrian-killing front section, and drag-inducing sharp rear drop).EV’s really do need that leap in battery tech. Once you factor in trying to keep it charged to 80% max most of the time and having to look to charge maybe around 20% to give you a buffer incase the chargers are full or worse broken. The range you have to play in most of the time is way too little for a good road trip.
Just been all around Wales. I think it would be very tricky to do with an EV, more so a non Tesla one. Maybe for the more remote road trips need to tow a 22KW diesel generator behind you? Think can get one for around £8k, stick it on a trailer. Cheaper than the Cybertruck extended range battery if not the marketing message they are going for.
And certainly no issue to charge to 100% for when you set off. The biggest battery life loss is keeping charge above 50-60% day-in day-out. No need to fret about the occasional 100% charge, but don’t stay up at 80% unnecessarily.
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Sure but you’ll still start looking for a charger normally at 20% to give a safety buffer. So say a car claims 300 miles WLTP. Take off say 30% for winter so you’d be nearer 210 miles. Not Tesla specific here but just a rough calc.Nothing wrong with charging to 100% when on a road trip - it even says that on the charging page
80% of that gives you 168 miles before you probably want to be looking for a charger. Obviously if you are 100% sure chargers are working like going home then you can go further but in public because they are so unreliable you need a buffer if you have to move onto the next one. I don’t think having to charge every 168 miles for maybe 30 minutes each time is reasonable. Sure have a stop to stretch legs but you don’t need 30 mins for that.
When people like Elon says that 300 miles is probably the sweet spot. He’s maybe right but I’d like that to be 300 miles in winter, not having to charge to levels that could wear the battery quicker (Or like an LFP where 100% is fine all the time).
For most EV’s. They still fall somewhat short, we are getting there but not quite there yet.
Probably all of this will be solved though in 5 - 10 years. Cars with bigger capacity batteries due to better chemistries that don’t weigh more, charge quicker, etc.
Yes I agree it’s improved hugely but I think over another 5 - 10 years itll jump forwards vastly again. Still in the early days of EV’s and battery tech.
It’s good but not good enough for most yet. Needs to work for people without home charging, not putting a massive strain on public chargers as cars can go far enough, charge faster so when they do need to stop the stop is shorter, etc.
Ok, I was pointing out that your assumption that you can't charge above 80% for a road trip is incorrect.
Just gave you 20% more range there
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Definitely not my experience. On a single long journey, preconditioned before I leave, temperature 5C-ish I have about 10% less range than summer.
Short Winter journey without preconditioning - yeah, consumption is atrocious, but I have no worry that I will run out on short journeys.
I have no experience of non-Tesla cars in this situation
But with the average miles per day per driver being only 30.... most?
Needs better infrastructure for sure for the most part, not necessarily bigger batteries.
Again down to infrastructure. More slower chargers for people shopping, staying in hotels, land post chargers, work place chargers etc will take the strain from rapid chargers and help with battery longevity. I agree with faster charging which some cars still coming out now dont have in comparison to what tesla has had for many years.
I know it's easy for us to think about ourselves and own case scenarios and wonder how everyone else will cope but most people dont do very long journeys much.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I am no aerodynamicist but I thought a sharp drop off was good. because it forces the air moving over the car to sharply detach at the back rather than rolling down the back and creating drag. That is why most cars these days either have a very sharp drop off or a roof spoiler to force the detachment was my understanding?
I appreciate Tesla's don't have a either of those but they do have a sharp drop off after the rear window which is the same principal just left a little later.
The worst shape apparently is a gently sloping tail like all those cars in the 1970's had.
Yes but that's maybe only from the first charge at home. You might not be charging to 100% on public chargers due to the slow down in charging. Better to get moving and then charge again on a lower SOC.Ok, I was pointing out that your assumption that you can't charge above 80% for a road trip is incorrect.
Just gave you 20% more range there
Anyway think you see my point overall. Which ever way you slice it. They could do with some more range still.
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