Tesla Alternative?

[2020M3SR]

Anyway, back on topic after the true believers distracted everyone away. Here's another very thorough review on the Macan

Very promising that he says you can get the seat down nice and low, maybe you can have fun in an SUV after all... disappointing there's no one pedal driving and only one wireless charging slot. Struggling to come up with any other cons though.

Cheers, didn't know that was out. I like that channel. He's got loads of EV experience and is as honest as the day is long.

Will watch a few Macan vids tonight I think. I couldn't see myself ever dropping that much money on a car, but I still like to see what they've come up with and looks like an interesting new car.

 

[2020M3SR]

Probably but this fall inline with the rest of the "family" . If its got flappy paddles you can probably sort of make it work but its not the same.

I took my sons 38kw ioniq out the other day and was amazed at the amount of regen you can get from the paddle that you cant get on the highest of the 3 standard settings. Such a missed opportunity there as well imho.

Yeah, any sporty SUV should have regen like this - really strong if you want it. One pedal braking, rather than just slow down regen type of thing. Hard regen in the right driving conditions can be a fun way get around.

 

[spdpsba]

I couldn't see myself ever dropping that much money on a car,

You are right. I remember when I was considering buying the Macan (the diesel one before they stopped it) in 2015 it was right around £46000 (base version - similar to current Model Y) and the Evoque was around £41000 (the dynamic version). They both were good in what they did at that time. That’s the comparison - Macan electric around £52,000 (base version) would have decimated Model Y. But Porsche is again doing what VW did with the id 4.

 

[Js1977]

@2020M3SR And how do you explain Tesla as being the most valuable company?

Im not really going to discuss my views on debt and interest rates (ill leave people to go visit Martin Lewis website)

 

[Js1977]

Macan electric around £52,000 (LR price) would have decimated Model Y.

Maybe for some but I would still pay a premium for the tesla due to some more valuable features (to me anyway)

 

[browellm]

That’s the comparison - Macan electric around £52,000 (base version) would have decimated Model Y. But Porsche is again doing what VW did with the id 4.

I'm actually surprised the price isn't even higher - Porsche are being Porsche. And there are some very average cars like the i5 and EQE going for bonkers money at list price.

 

[Kvitravn]

1. Do any of the cars in the UK have mega castings?
2. Are 4680 batteries in mass production? Pretty certain they're not. And again, do any UK cars have 4680 batteries? That'll be a no.
3. Vision based parking is inferior to good old fashions parking sensors. It might not be nothing but it's certainly not progress.
4. FSD 12 that is actually not available to customers other than shills like that Whole Mars guy? That FSD 12? General release is a funny term, because it's not actually available outside North America.
5. Can't argue about efficiency, although Tesla were forced to recently downgrade their efficiency figures as they were a piece of fiction. Meanwhile those other cars you mention tend to over perform their stated figures.

You get to have any opinion you want but you are moving goalposts galore.

1. That was not my claim. Megacasting Model Y's are in mass production. Monroe tore one down summer of 2022.
2. 4680 production passed a million units a week around this time last year, and there are customers driving around in Ys with structural battery packs.
3. Not what I said. Vision based means no extra hardware or supplier dependency. It's a hard problem to solve but removes cost and speeds up production. No other car manufacturer even tries to do this.
4. Again not what I said. FSD runs on the standard vehicle computer and adds no cost or effort to the production.
5. WLTP range is an EPA estimate and not set by Tesla. Also, the Y tested performed best of the 31 cars in the real-world B-road loop test I mentioned, beating the WLTP range by 7% as well as the cars I mentioned.

So basically during the few years the same plain Y has been in production, it has had several significant updates and become cheaper and faster to build. Yet eadh and every car can support FSD as a software delivery at delivery or later.

There's no one else doing this kind of integration. There are for instance some competitors out there with autopilot-level driver assistance systems, using integrated external systems with additonal sensor suites and ECUs that add cost and production time.

 

[UrbanSplash]

I wouldn’t be too bothered about one pedal driving. Switching between my Y and the wife’s etron GT is a completely different experience but neither is ‘better’. Maybe preference. I don’t mind ‘braking’ in the GT as much as I thought I would.

Side note, the GT makes a crazy ‘whirring’ noise when you’re parked but not going anywhere. Hard to explain it. Absolutely love it! Wish Tesla did this.

 

[Js1977]

I wouldn’t be too bothered about one pedal driving.

I know its an egree to disagree sort of thing but its a must for me and I can only assume "its a thing" when all the reviewers mention this aspect.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I wouldn’t be too bothered about one pedal driving. ... I don’t mind ‘braking’ in the GT as much as I thought I would.

its a must for me

Me too. I love that I can just feather the accelerator to get normal slowing down for bend / junction.

The thing for me about using brakes instead is: I would like to use max regen - until I realise that I need more than that. With one-pedal I can just lift off, with brake would I be able to do exactly that sweet spot?

I also like Neutral on MS for similar reason. On a down slope I can knock it into neutral and pick up speed (or lose speed gently), I don't have to try to get accelerator exactly neutral (and when dash says its neutral I doubt that it exactly is - maybe that doesn't actually matter in practice ...). a hangover to my ICE hypermiling days probably, but it provides me with some variety whilst doing humdrum journeys - trying to judge last possible moment to lift off for bend / junction etc.

 

[DoricJim]

One of those new Lotus SUV EV things just drove past me going in the opposite direction. From what I saw it looks like an absolute bloated abomination and complete dump on the Lotus brand… sad reflection on the direction of the car market, which makes me kind of sad.

 

[Pagemakers]

BYD Seal - Test drove one last Friday. It is a very good car, looks fantastic and drives well (single motor variant). It's quicker than I expected, build quality is very good and I love the looks. Compared to my 2019 M3P...


The ride quality is much better
It's quieter (aware the Highland has improved these areas)
It's well priced (Dual Motor version is less than the Tesla dual motor LR)

The sound system is not nearly as good
The screen software is nowhere near as integrated and polished
The Throttle map is a bit weird in sport mode - jerky at times
Steering is a bit wooly around the centre position
Nav is not as good
Not much regen - done through the brakes, not much through the motors. No single pedal driving
The housing behind the rear view mirror is huge, obscuring the top left of the windscreen almost entirely

And, worst of all... The nannying features drove me to distraction within less than 5 minutes. The lane keep thing is bloody awful, bleeping far too often and the steering wheel is properly tugged. It did it even when I was dead in the centre of a well marked lane - twice. It also bleeped every time I exited a roundabout, and at various other times for no apparent reason. All the bleeps are properly loud. I had the car for an hour and returned it after 20 minutes.

I really wanted to like the car but came away annoyed that it could have been so much better, as dynamically it's rather good. Another one let down by the software implementation. I'm not going to test drive a dual motor Highland as soon as available.

Thanks. You’ve saved me an hour of my life.

 

[Js1977]

I definitely would not recommend a Hyundai. Servicing lead times are lengthy even for warranty stuff (1 month plus on anything)

My daughter thought her 71 plate ioniq was having the door handle done today as it falls off and instead, after about a month of waiting and getting a loan car, its only in for an assessment and then get inline for a waiting list, again. All for something that is a well know common issue... A whole day for what is a 5 minute assessment. Shocking

 

[12Pack]

BYD Seal - Test drove one last Friday. It is a very good car, looks fantastic and drives well (single motor variant). It's quicker than I expected, build quality is very good and I love the looks. Compared to my 2019 M3P...


The ride quality is much better
It's quieter (aware the Highland has improved these areas)
It's well priced (Dual Motor version is less than the Tesla dual motor LR)

The sound system is not nearly as good
The screen software is nowhere near as integrated and polished
The Throttle map is a bit weird in sport mode - jerky at times
Steering is a bit wooly around the centre position
Nav is not as good
Not much regen - done through the brakes, not much through the motors. No single pedal driving
The housing behind the rear view mirror is huge, obscuring the top left of the windscreen almost entirely

And, worst of all... The nannying features drove me to distraction within less than 5 minutes. The lane keep thing is bloody awful, bleeping far too often and the steering wheel is properly tugged. It did it even when I was dead in the centre of a well marked lane - twice. It also bleeped every time I exited a roundabout, and at various other times for no apparent reason. All the bleeps are properly loud. I had the car for an hour and returned it after 20 minutes.

I really wanted to like the car but came away annoyed that it could have been so much better, as dynamically it's rather good. Another one let down by the software implementation. I'm not going to test drive a dual motor Highland as soon as available.

We have been discussing Chinese EVs quite a bit as chip suppliers. While Tesla (a big customer) clearly moved towards software leading the design ethos, they still had car guys designing the actual hardware. The Chinese EV makers explain that their market in China cares little about actual driving - they are used to a much lower quality of hardware. But they look much more for unique "tech" features (gimmicks). So Chinese cars are designed from the cabin out with driving hardware being the final cost holdout.

That seems to line with your experience.

And in contrast to both Tesla and the Chinese, German carmakers very much start with the hardware and care much more about driving and the ride, and less about EV efficiency - which also shows.

 

[Zilla91]

they look much more for unique "tech" features (gimmicks). So Chinese cars are designed from the cabin out

Seeing how terrible the Chinese are at software/UI, I find this statement quite surprising

 

[Kvitravn]

Did not have that experience with cars like NIO ET5 or ES8 - therir systems felt snappy and well thought out. Not as good as Tesla, but much preferable to for instance VW ID. or Merc EQS in my experience.

 

[Kashp]

Looks like you can start ordering the Polestar 4.

 

[Foucault]

Looks like you can start ordering the Polestar 4.

I saw the prototype of the Polestar 4 last year. It’s a bit of an odd looking thing though not as odd as something like an ioniq 6 and definitely not as out there as the HiPhi Z. It looked bigger than a model Y but in reality they are pretty much the same size (the polestar is about 8cm longer and 8cm lower). Quite liked it but would want to drive one before ordering given how disappointing the Polestar 2 was to drive (think being based on XC40 platform doesn’t help the Polestar 2).

 

[Zilla91]

Looks OK, not convinced with the lack of rear window. Model Y is probably at the upper limit of how big a car I'd want to drive in the UK so it being 8cm longer and wider is quite off putting

 

[Foucault]

Width wise the Polestar 4 is only 10mm wider than the model Y including the mirrors (the body is nearly 9cm wider though). I take your point about size being a problem - it’s not like roads or car park spaces are getting bigger.