Tesla autopilot HW3

[chillaban]

@chillaban why the disagree? AP2 still can't read signs, therefore it's not at parity...yet.

That’s a hair-splitting definition of parity. Yes there’s a few features that AP1 can do but AP2 can’t, but there’s also some that AP2 can do but AP1 can’t (identify more vehicles, see behind, reliable long range blind spot detection for lane changes).

But above that, the driving capabilities of AP2 have way surpassed AP1. For months. I’ve had recent AP1 loaners and it takes me a while to remind myself that I can’t engage AP1 in city streets with irregular/broken lane lines, on cloverleafs and sharp corners, etc. The driving capabilities of AP2 are much better than AP1 these days, at least with multiple AP2.x cars vs multiple AP1 cars.

That’s why I disagreed. If you were referring to specific features that matter to you, of course I can’t discount your opinion. But as a whole, it’s misleading to make the implication that AP2 is somehow behind AP1.

 

[Electroman]

^^ This

 

[electronblue]

@chillaban @Electroman I do think this comes down to perspective. @Bladerskb is obviously an autonomous driving technology enthusiast and possibly someone in the technology side of the business themselves. He/she has shown repeated interest in the technology more so than in the cars themselves.

So taken from this perspective it is not unfathomable to view EyeQ3 that ran AP1 as superior to Tesla Vision as shipped at this time. Paired with similar amount of cameras and sufficient chips it seems likely to me even EyeQ3 would deliver a superior experience (let alone EyeQ4). It seems to have the more mature computer vision with those traffic signs but also a more mature vision engine for stabler and wider range of identification of cars and objects internally.

That is the key word here of course. Internally.

Because @S4WRXTTCS is right too. For many of us this is not just about watching technology providers because we don’t work on those products and can’t drive those products. We can drive cars we can buy and there — for all its and their faults — Tesla offers a bleeding edge product. This is what makes Teslas interesting for sure and a choice for many of us. And indeed it means — finally — that AP2 delivers in many cases more than AP1 does for the consumer.

That said we are left to wonder what wonders could MobilEye and Tesla have delivered together if they had kept on aligning the aggressiveness of Tesla’s implementation with MobilEye’s mature internal self-driving components... AP1 compared to the rest of the industry at the time is some proof that it could have been exciting... Think of what Tesla could do by now if they shipped EyeQ4s with eight cameras...

 

[conman]

Always be wary of people that do not own Teslas and spend an inordinate amount of time putting them down. Don't underestimate how important shorting may be to some people. Don't be afraid to use the ignore button either.

 

[iTech]

That’s a hair-splitting definition of parity. Yes there’s a few features that AP1 can do but AP2 can’t, but there’s also some that AP2 can do but AP1 can’t (identify more vehicles, see behind, reliable long range blind spot detection for lane changes).

But above that, the driving capabilities of AP2 have way surpassed AP1. For months. I’ve had recent AP1 loaners and it takes me a while to remind myself that I can’t engage AP1 in city streets with irregular/broken lane lines, on cloverleafs and sharp corners, etc. The driving capabilities of AP2 are much better than AP1 these days, at least with multiple AP2.x cars vs multiple AP1 cars.

That’s why I disagreed. If you were referring to specific features that matter to you, of course I can’t discount your opinion. But as a whole, it’s misleading to make the implication that AP2 is somehow behind AP1.

Not really, that's the point of AP parity, to match the features at a minimum. Features being improved from AP1 to AP2+ was stated and expected, but individual features being better doesn't imply that parity was achieved, ALL the features need to match.

Now that doesn't mean I'm saying it will never reach parity, because it's pretty close (and probably will with HW3 + updated NN).

 

[conman]

Features being improved from AP1 to AP2+ was stated and expected.

I may be wrong, but unfortunately, I have never seen written anywhere that AP2 (E)AP would have sign reading. Implied, perhaps, with vague statements about it being better in every way maybe, but never explicitly stated. Yes I would like it to, but I've never seen it advertised as doing so. I'm pretty sure it will be there for FSD though, so it shouldn't be a stretch to extend support to EAP though, but this is just me postulating.

 

[Bladerskb]

Always be wary of people that do not own Teslas and spend an inordinate amount of time putting them down. Don't underestimate how important shorting may be to some people. Don't be afraid to use the ignore button either.

Funny how some of the people who say "put bladers on ignore" will steal his statements/research and present it as their own in blog posts & articles while hiding in the shadows? (and i'm not talking about you in particular)

Me personally, everything i have said in this forum has all been about AI/autonomy, you won't find one post about Tesla as a car company. (I could care less). Yet people call me a short, no I'm just a barrier of truth. 2 years ago when Elon made his famous 3 months maybe and 6 months definitely, I wrote this;

Anyone who believes this is out of their mind. Especially with the current AP2 not even eqavalient to AP1. We have AP right now only at 45MPH or less on highways. No auto wipers, no auto high beams, no summon, no autopark. This is with not taking into account the actual EAP features that are missing

Its safe to say i simply take the side of the truth. I never led anyone wrong.

Infact back in October 2016, when i had my reservation and did my initial research, before it became apparent that Tesla was bluffing and had absolutely nothing. I made this post and outlined what they could do with the new AP2 system tech wise.

The car with 8 cameras can creates a holistic 3d view of its world in real world with annotations.

IF an interesting situation were to take place. Or an interesting intersection or stretch of road were marked on the map for recording. All that needs to happen is for the car to record the last 30 seconds of the cars encounter and send it over to Tesla HQ.

But wait, you don't have to send raw video over. You people keep forgetting that the Nvidia PX2 runs the DNN in real time and already processes the raw video data.

Tesla would only need the meta data. What do i mean by meta data? everything already tagged and processed by the DNN and includes numerical and temporal representation of the space around the car, the coordinates of the objects(other cars/obstacles/pedestrain/traffic signs/lanes/road edges/etc) around the car and their velocity, and more.

This immense data could be less than 1MB and can then be loaded into Tesla's simulator.

They will have metadata of the exact position of every traffic light in every city. They will have metadata of position of traffic signs, stop signs, speed limits, lane markings, etc

They will have data of every parking place and spot a tesla car ever parked in during manual mode.

So if a tesla drives to and parks in McDonald or any business in manual mode. The car will save data of the parking structure and its spots and how exactly to navigate in and out of it and beams it up to HQ.

if the car were to encounter a place it fails at during shadow mode. it simply does what xbox does. Records the last 30 seconds and beams it up to HQ.

How does "fleet learning" work?

I really wish Blader would have gone through with getting a Model 3 because at least then he'd be enjoying himself between the rants. But, he's just going to wait.

Not at all impressed with the struggle for level 2 supremacy. I'm more interested in the sale of level 3 and 4 cars.

 

[mongo]

Me personally, everything i have said in this forum has all been about AI/autonomy, you won't find one post about Tesla as a car company.

Ummm, how do you seperate Tesla as a car company from Tesla as a company or Elon as CEO of Tesla? Did you mean not one post about the driving qualities of a Tesla?

This very post:

Infact back in October 2016, when i had my reservation and did my initial research, before it became apparent that Tesla was bluffing and had absolutely nothing.

A car (or any other company) bluffing seems like a bad thing...

Elon stood up in a conference and said EAP will be done in 3 months and here we are 2 years later and still nothing. He made a statement while Tesla had 0 software written for eap. Without consulting ANYONE. This goes inline with the SEC investigation.

Furthermore all his level 5 statement has been made without consulting anyone and with 0 software being written.

Infact his head of autopilot sterling was shocked when the blog post went out referring to ap2 as fully self driving. This was another elon call without even consulting with his head of autopilot.

There's a difference between being wrong versus fabricating statements.

Elon musk has perfected the art of lying to generate thousands of articles about Tesla having self driving technology. To the point that most people i talk to think teslas are self driving cars you can sleep in. Its ridiculous.

There's a reason elon tweets about everything he does. Its because he knows thousands of articles have been created off his tweets. One day, its going to catch up to him and he's gonna pay for all his lies that he has said to deceive people

(I could care less)

So you do care, at least a little...

 

[bedoig]

...I'm just a barrier of truth...

Hmm... sounds about right, lol.

 

[Electroman]

you won't find one post about Tesla as a car company

except the post about Elon as a 420 fraud, and then another one... and another one..

 

[Bladerskb]

@mongo
@Electroman

Notice that all those quotes deal with self driving technology?

But I wold love you to find me a post where the point of the post was to point out that Tesla cars had poor build quality/panel gaps/subpar interior for a luxury car/Drives poorly/will need to raise money/will go bankrupt/price of stock, etc. You can't, so stop trying and start talking about why we still haven't seen the cross country demo even though there are apparently cars with HW3.

I only talk about Tesla and other companies in relation to SDC.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Not at all impressed with the struggle for level 2 supremacy. I'm more interested in the sale of level 3 and 4 cars.

Says the guy who crashed his car that didn't have this technology.

Sure I get that L3 is where things get really awesome, but we're years away from that.

In the mean time I'm going to enjoy

Track Mode
Sentry Mode
Romance Mode
Smart Summons
NoA (when it's not a piece of crap like it is now)
Cursing at the nags

You could get an X5, and have some fun for a couple years before L3 lands. I don't expect to see true highway L3 until 2021 or so.

 

[mongo]

@mongo
@Electroman

Notice that all those quotes deal with self driving technology?

But I wold love you to find me a post where the point of the post was to point out that Tesla cars had poor build quality/panel gaps/subpar interior for a luxury car/Drives poorly/will need to raise money/will go bankrupt/price of stock, etc. You can't, so stop trying and start talking about why we still haven't seen the cross country demo even though there are apparently cars with HW3.

I only talk about Tesla and other companies in relation to SDC.

And did you notice how I said

Ummm, how do you seperate Tesla as a car company from Tesla as a company or Elon as CEO of Tesla? Did you mean not one post about the driving qualities of a Tesla?

The messages I quoted may explain why people may have the opinion of you that they do.

Regarding the FSD cross country drive:
We haven't seen it because either it hasn't happened, or some people at Tesla can keep a secret. (Did we know about Roadster 2020?)

In the fun mental aspect of things, they could have done the full cross country and even the drivers wouldn't know. If all the cars have the same software, you only need to have overlaping driving coverage over the route. Having the same car do the entire trip is just PR...

They also can run the data set through the NN but that is too abstract to call a win.

 

[jlund]

@mongo
@Electroman

Notice that all those quotes deal with self driving technology?

But I wold love you to find me a post where the point of the post was to point out that Tesla cars had poor build quality/panel gaps/subpar interior for a luxury car/Drives poorly/will need to raise money/will go bankrupt/price of stock, etc. You can't, so stop trying and start talking about why we still haven't seen the cross country demo even though there are apparently cars with HW3.

I only talk about Tesla and other companies in relation to SDC.

Found one.

 

[mongo]

Found one.

It was a hypothetical "Tesla as a company" post for illustration, not an actual opinion piece.
(I think)

 

[Electroman]

Notice that all those quotes deal with self driving technology?

Your comment about 'Elon's 420 tweet fraud' is about self driving tech?

 

[verygreen]

Is still assume that the Samsung SOC in on the ADAS PCB. If remember correct still in coexistence of NVIDIA chips? I read something in reddit? Was it also @verygreen?

Coming kind of late, but just to repeat. Intel Gordon Peak stuff is in the infotainment, that's what you see in that rooted model3 video. There's a separate computer node (3 actually, of which 2 run Linux) that is responsible for actual ADAS bits to a large degree - those are currently NVidia in HW 2+ and HW3 they moved to Samsung Exynos stuff. The exact layout is unknown until we get a real sample.
This adas board swap has no impact on the infotainment side at all - the adas board is fully separate and talk to the rest of the system over canbus and ethernet links.

Also I do not have a hw3 board myself so I cannot really attach a debugger to that PCB (even though I'd love to!)

 

[electronblue]

Ummm, how do you seperate Tesla as a car company from Tesla as a company or Elon as CEO of Tesla? Did you mean not one post about the driving qualities of a Tesla?

This very post:

A car (or any other company) bluffing seems like a bad thing...

So you do care, at least a little...

I think there is no question @Bladerskb does care about what Tesla does in the SDC space. Tesla has clout in moving the conversation within the space and no doubt it is a player that matters.

But realistically the overwhelming body of text from @Bladerskb on TMC is about SDC only. You won’t see him frequenting the investor threads for example.

So while it is good advice to always take people who may hold stock or instruments with a pinch of salt because they may have an interest in decreasing or increasing the stock price (this includes longs too) I just don’t see that with @Bladerskb.

The Occam’s razor here is he/she is just someone very interested and opinionated in the self-driving technology sphere nothing more.

 

[fsl2019]

Coming kind of late, but just to repeat. Intel Gordon Peak stuff is in the infotainment, that's what you see in that rooted model3 video. There's a separate computer node (3 actually, of which 2 run Linux) that is responsible for actual ADAS bits to a large degree - those are currently NVidia in HW 2+ and HW3 they moved to Samsung Exynos stuff. The exact layout is unknown until we get a real sample.
This adas board swap has no impact on the infotainment side at all - the adas board is fully separate and talk to the rest of the system over canbus and ethernet links.

Also I do not have a hw3 board myself so I cannot really attach a debugger to that PCB (even though I'd love to!)

Thanks a lot for the response. I really appreciate all your efforts to keep all posted.

Frank

 

[OPRCE]

Your comment about 'Elon's 420 tweet fraud' is about self driving tech?

Musk very much opens himself up to legitimate criticism for playing fast and loose with his phrasing, then getting all ritually uptight about "muh integrity" when called out on it, but those delivering it are not necessarily wishing ill on the company or opposing its mission. Quite the contrary, it can equally well be argued that a sound critique [or lawsuit or SEC investigation, etc.] which helps Musk reconnect to reality can only be good for the company's prospects in the long term.

Bladerskb is part of the SDC technology fanbase here, not a hostile element, even though his tones can vary to brusque at times