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Tesla autopilot HW3
- Thread starter verygreen
- Start date
Thanks for that!
From ansi: SAE Levels of Driving Automation - ANSI Blog
I'd be pretty impressed if anyone could make a vehicle that works over all ODD, self driving or human. Which is my problem with level 5, a car can't drive through a flooded road, so is there a higher level caveat or what?
Having just watched the Dragon launch and unmanned docking with the space station, I have no doubt that FSD will happen for Tesla. When is another subject as is what FSD will actually mean at that time. Speculation and theories get tiring as does the same old back and forth so I'm going to stop following this thread. Maybe I'll check back in on it in a year or 2 to find out more about HW3 capabilities since we should know more by then. Please continue the endless debate until then.
MTOman
Member
This may be true but I don't care what level they are, I'll take Tesla's L2 over the extremely limited Audi L3 that's on the horizon.
I'm a night owl so I usually take my trips in the middle of the night when there's little to no traffic, the Audi L3 system with its highway-only 37mph limit would almost never get used whereas I use AP all the time for hours at a time.
I'm sure there are people who spend a lot of time in traffic jams and for them the "better" Audi system may be a godsend, but not for me - I'll keep my Tesla L2 system thank you very much
Edit: typo
I came here for the HW3 info, stayed for the bickering.
So according to you, all cars sold until now will never get the HW3 upgrade?
(since it looks like new cars don't have the HW3 either...)
I was going to add "even though Twitter messages are confirming they will", but I guess that's another story...
So according to you, all cars sold until now will never get the HW3 upgrade?
(since it looks like new cars don't have the HW3 either...)
I was going to add "even though Twitter messages are confirming they will", but I guess that's another story...
I think there's a danger that given the way they have redefined "FSD", they will claim victory with HW2 and move on, not upgrading even those who paid for FSD. I think it's a somewhat slim chance; more likely if you prepaid for FSD you'll get HW3. Though maybe not at initial release; maybe next year and only if Tesla is out of their cash crunch by then.
Much more concerning is the fact that EAP, for those who purchased it before it was eliminated, will never get what they were promised, even if what they were promised eventually is released on HW3. Tesla will simply plug their ears and pretend they never promised that things like on-ramp to off-ramp without intervention were ever promised as part of EAP. They will do this because the sheer number of cars delivered with EAP and HW2/2.5 would make it an extremely expensive proposition to upgrade them.
There is substantial precedent for this -- all the AP1 promises that were made and never kept. In principle Tesla could retrofit AP2+HW3 onto all those cars to give them what they were promised, but nobody seriously believes that will happen. The same will be true of EAP, and possibly even pre-HW3 FSD.
So according to you, all cars sold until now will never get the HW3 upgrade?
(since it looks like new cars don't have the HW3 either...)
I was going to add "even though Twitter messages are confirming they will", but I guess that's another story...
It's only my thought, I do not work for Tesla. I just realize Tesla just substantially moved the goal posts and changed the definition of "FSD" where their little weekend switcharoo / feature combinations.
Given, the sheer numbers, and the recent price drops to include even more adoption and the fact that Elon said, to fix the early adopters would put Tesla under. I don't see how they can possibly afford to retrofit all cars sold to date, if they can't even hope to fix the 25k or so early adopters that believed that sham of a video.
This seems like they are moving in that direction, or at least wanting to keep that door open.
Or rather, cut a hole in that brick wall so that they can install a door there later, if they decide they need to... now I'm really stretching the analogy.
Basically they're starting to realize they've built up a rather large legal/financial liability with AP2 and they are working on ways to cut their losses, ideally to zero, just like they did with AP1, and move on to AP3 (which is not to be confused with HW3; I suspect AP3 will include a much better sensor suite with more redundancy.)
There is a line item in the liabilities section of their balance sheet for EAP/FSD features that have not been rolled out. Any financial liability is covered, in the event your brick wall scenario ever came to pass...
I'm not talking only about that money (which they need) but about the cost of installing HW3 for free on all those cars. But also I think they may have some exposure for more than the cost of the features, since they claimed that every AP2 car came with the hardware needed for full self driving. Frankly I think they have liability for fraud, though nobody seems willing to try that so far.
In process, this all just dropped at the end of last week, it's coming...
If the cost of HW3 and swap out is less that the price Tesla charges for FSD, then they are covered. (I think $1k for the HW3 and <$200 for the swap)
I'm currently trying to figure out whether it is worth buying an AP2.0 car over an AP1 car or not. Do you really think it'll be that easy to upgrade the hardware? I'm especially concerned with the differences between 2.0 and 2.5, I heard the cameras and radar changed. How difficult is it to replace all that hardware? I doubt that Tesla is going to go through the trouble to get regulatory approval for the system containing AP2.0 hardware since probably only 250K cars have that stuff.
I'm the optimistic one, so I would say get the AP2. Cameras did change from grey, grey, grey, red to grey, grey, blue, red but they can be swapped if needed, so can the radar if it matters. It may be that only the AP computer needs swapped which can theoretically be done in under an hour.
What about the B-pillar cameras? The front cameras and the blinker cameras seem to be dead simple to replace, but how much labor and time will it be to replace the B-pillar cameras?
The cost difference between a P90D AP1 and P100D AP2 is nearly 20K. I'm willing to pay it if AP2 isn't a dead-end, but I'm trying to determine if is or not as P100D AP2.5 is out of my price range.
B pillar cameras are accessible by removing the internal trim cover.
If you are interested, the whole parts catalog is available at https://epc.teslamotors.com
It also depend on if you would want FSD in the future. The 90kWh pack also have their own quirks in terms of degradation...
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Since @mongo is the positive one, let me be the realistic one: Tesla will NOT swap your sensors. Never going to happen.
Reason is the sheer volume of cars. If sensor upgrades are required for FSD, Tesla is toast, end of story.
The real question is therefore are sensor upgrades necessary? All we know is that the sensors were changed from 2.0 to 2.5, and that the new ones are different and better. Necessary? Unknown at present
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