Tesla cancelled refreshed Model S and X plans for RHD models

[Audietron]

I just received email from Tesla that my order for model S and Model X are cancelled.... as they do not intend to produce them for RHD market....

Disappointing news....

However, I didn't receive cancellation for Cybertruck, so hoping for that order to go thru... fingers are crossed.

 

[TheGasMan]

Yes me too - disappointing. Surely there is enough RHD demand around the world?

 

[Audietron]

Yes me too - disappointing. Surely there is enough RHD demand around the world?

well, plenty of world out there including here, where everyone drives on correct side of the road (Left) and driver seats at Right place...

But again, maybe with Cybertruck coming along, they are probably trying to disrupt the market and come up with the steering in centre or switchable... so they don't need to make two different type of models... Based on experience of changing air filter last week, I would say, they already are doing it, as air filter in all LHD cars is on passenger side, but on all RHD cars on driver side.... so basically it's only a steering which changed place (I am no engineer or expert but speculating).

Let's hope, something better coming... or least Cybertruck.

 

[Watts_Up]

so basically it's only a steering which changed place (I am no engineer or expert but speculating).

The pedals location gets moved, which imply some modifications
such as moving the brake cylinder which affect the AC air intake opening,
Also the base of the windshield wipers get moved on the other side.

However, the conversion doesn’t seem to really require making a new production line.
I wonder what decision of not make any RHD for the refresh Model S/X entail:

1. Very soon the Model S/X will use a different platform, such as using the Giga Press casting, like possibly the coming new Model 3?​

This would even further lowering the cost of make the Model S/X, so updating the refresh Model S/X to be RHD is not economically sounding right now.​

​

2. The Model S/X been only build in Fremont, CA the production of LHD would be reduced when the RHD will be made, affecting the sales of​

the Model S/X LHD, but I would be skeptical of this because it seems that there was a little bit of inventory recently.​

​

3. The refresh RHD will still require to pass crash and validation tests, whose validation cost might not be be worthily.​

​

4. The actual Model S/X production of about 50k unit is not justified and will be cancelled.​

And the floor space could be used to build a more profitable vehicle such as a minivan,​

something that the Boring Company would also need.​

 

[Tiger]

I just received email from Tesla that my order for model S and Model X are cancelled.... as they do not intend to produce them for RHD market....

Disappointing news....

It's the same what they said when they were secretly working on the Plaid.

At the current prices, however, demand is too low for RHD.

They will lower the prices when CT comes out otherwise the volume of S/X will dwindle. Osborne effect too is taking effect as CT ramps up.

 

[Audietron]

The pedals location gets moved, which imply some modifications
such as moving the brake cylinder which affect the AC air intake opening,
Also the base of the windshield wipers get moved on the other side.

However, the conversion doesn’t seem to really require making a new production line.
I wonder what decision of not make any RHD for the refresh Model S/X entail:

1. Very soon the Model S/X will use a different platform, such as using the Giga Press casting, like possibly the coming new Model 3?​

This would even further lowering the cost of make the Model S/X, so updating the refresh Model S/X to be RHD is not economically sounding right now.​

​

2. The Model S/X been only build in Fremont, CA the production of LHD would be reduced when the RHD will be made, affecting the sales of​

the Model S/X LHD, but I would be skeptical of this because it seems that there was a little bit of inventory recently.​

​

3. The refresh RHD will still require to pass crash and validation tests, whose validation cost might not be be worthily.​

​

4. The actual Model S/X production of about 50k unit is not justified and will be cancelled.​

And the floor space could be used to build a more profitable vehicle such as a minivan,​

something that the Boring Company would also need.​

I guess more to do with economies....

Model S and X are not eligible for any subsidies like clean car in any countries... so only niche market.
Market for luxury car is always aimed to perfection, I know how my each of the 6-7 Model A8/S8 (Audi) I had in 15 years before I had my first Tesla model 3... perfect, no gotchas, everything top end, everything finished, everything always works.... now that accuracy with Tesla is far away from my Model 3 experiance. so might be less demand....
And more of the move to get roadster (if ever) and Cybertruck (very huge market for UTE) out so they can sell more and build them easy...

all speculation in Tesla realm, as they only say minimalist, rarely say anything... either it's about fault with existing cars or road map for future cars... earthlings are less important as their sight is set for mars

 

[meloccom]

I guess more to do with economies....

Model S and X are not eligible for any subsidies like clean car in any countries... so only niche market.
Market for luxury car is always aimed to perfection, I know how my each of the 6-7 Model A8/S8 (Audi) I had in 15 years before I had my first Tesla model 3... perfect, no gotchas, everything top end, everything finished, everything always works.... now that accuracy with Tesla is far away from my Model 3 experiance. so might be less demand....
And more of the move to get roadster (if ever) and Cybertruck (very huge market for UTE) out so they can sell more and build them easy...

all speculation in Tesla realm, as they only say minimalist, rarely say anything... either it's about fault with existing cars or road map for future cars... earthlings are less important as their sight is set for mars

I think your experience is more to do with the fact that you are lucky enough to be able to turn over your 6-7 Audis on a regular basis. There’s lots of YouTube videos of 10 to 15 year old BMW, Mercedes and Audi models that are mechanically totalled due to poor design and material choices.

 

[Audietron]

I think your experience is more to do with the fact that you are lucky enough to be able to turn over your 6-7 Audis on a regular basis. There’s lots of YouTube videos of 10 to 15 year old BMW, Mercedes and Audi models that are mechanically totalled due to poor design and material choices.

no comments, considering amount of bad experiences I had with Tesla... welcome to go through my posts and comments in past.

 

[Watts_Up]

I guess more to do with economies....

Typical MBA economic problem:

Car A costs twice as Car B, and profit when selling Car A is also about twice as Car B.​

You can sell 10 time more car B than car A during the same amount of time.​

Your overhead for selling each car is about the same, such as monthly cost for each car parking spot, saleperson salary...​

So speaking hypothetically, you will make five time more profit by selling 10 car B than one car A.

 

[Tiger]

Typical MBA economic problem:

Car A costs twice as Car B, and profit when selling Car A is also about twice as Car B.​

You can sell 10 time more car B than car A during the same amount of time.​

Your overhead for selling each car is about the same, such as monthly cost for each car parking spot, saleperson salary...​

So speaking hypothetically, you will make five time more profit by selling 10 car B than one car A.

Optimize manufacturing cost of and sales price of A such that its sales become increasingly relevant.

 

[Durzel]

Typical MBA economic problem:

Car A costs twice as Car B, and profit when selling Car A is also about twice as Car B.​

You can sell 10 time more car B than car A during the same amount of time.​

Your overhead for selling each car is about the same, such as monthly cost for each car parking spot, saleperson salary...​

So speaking hypothetically, you will make five time more profit by selling 10 car B than one car A.

This economic rationale values the halo car effect at zero, though.

How much money does the 911 make for Porsche? How much aspirational value does it add to the brand, and the model range, when Porsche can talk about how the tech trickles down from it, how the DNA exists in the models one can afford, etc?

I'd suggest that halo cars have positive effects on a brand that go beyond what they add to the bottom line in and of themselves.

In RHD markets like New Zealand, Australia, UK and Japan (and others I've forgotten) Tesla is now essentially a 2 mid-range model car maker. Not sure how aspirational that is?

 

[Tiger]

This economic rationale values the halo car effect at zero, though.

How much money does the 911 make for Porsche? How much aspirational value does it add to the brand, and the model range, when Porsche can talk about how the tech trickles down from it, how the DNA exists in the models one can afford, etc?

People are used to think of S/X as outdated faberge egg technology. Halo effect is more prominent with "Roadster 2020" and CT.

S/X would make great mass market family cars in the A6 and ID.7 class if they can make them reliably and manufacture efficiently like the smaller ones.

 

[Durzel]

People are used to think of S/X as outdated faberge egg technology. Halo effect is more prominent with "Roadster 2020" and CT.

S/X would make great mass market family cars in the A6 and ID.7 class if they can make them reliably and manufacture efficiently like the smaller ones.

Perhaps, yeah. The X is still quite an impressive thing - the Falcon wing doors, front doors that open and close themselves, and of course how seamless that is with phones, etc. The S is less ostentatious, but still quite markedly different than a 3 (discounting tech age differences).

You may be right though. Thing is - CT will never be legal in Europe (including the UK) in its current guise, it would spectacularly fail EuroNCAP testing for pedestrian safety, etc, and Musk has explicitly said that it won't be available in Europe "as is" which, given Tesla seems to be all about reduction in build costs, might as well be saying that CT will never exist here full stop.

The Roadster? I can see that can getting kicked down the road indefinitely. LHD vs RHD for supercars is less of an issue, customers are more tolerant when the car is something truly special, but Tesla seems to be flat out with the mass market stuff. I really can't see the Roadster existing any time soon.

All of which is to say that for the forseeable future Tesla is going to be a two mid-range model car maker in the UK, which doesn't bode well for it in terms of brand aspirational value, I don't think. It seems weird to just give up the MPV/executive end of the market to the likes of Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche simply because you're just not making enough profit on RHD S/X cars.

 

[Audietron]

This economic rationale values the halo car effect at zero, though.

How much money does the 911 make for Porsche? How much aspirational value does it add to the brand, and the model range, when Porsche can talk about how the tech trickles down from it, how the DNA exists in the models one can afford, etc?

I'd suggest that halo cars have positive effects on a brand that go beyond what they add to the bottom line in and of themselves.

In RHD markets like New Zealand, Australia, UK and Japan (and others I've forgotten) Tesla is now essentially a 2 mid-range model car maker. Not sure how aspirational that is?

exactly my concern... well put.

Bottom line and making money matters, but becoming the low end brand like Mazda or low/mid range like Toyota would only hurt.

New Zealand already have large fleet of Tesla Model 3 as taxis..... so they are considered like Toyota Prius now... a Taxi?

Very disappointing to see Tesla trying to become Prius in RHD market.... super disappointed.

 

[Audietron]

People are used to think of S/X as outdated faberge egg technology. Halo effect is more prominent with "Roadster 2020" and CT.

S/X would make great mass market family cars in the A6 and ID.7 class if they can make them reliably and manufacture efficiently like the smaller ones.

agree, but Future which is far far away for home market (USA).... they can't simply consider model S/X as irrelevant for RHD market...

short-sighted decision... or they want to cover low range market and focus only on even more disappointing plans of Roadster and CT.

If CT comes, great... otherwise I am stuck with Model 3 now (never wanted, got it to wait for model S/X) until I had too much and forced to go away from Tesla... as always, I hope I am wrong and I get CT or Model S. Roadster not my style.

 

[Audietron]

Perhaps, yeah. The X is still quite an impressive thing - the Falcon wing doors, front doors that open and close themselves, and of course how seamless that is with phones, etc. The S is less ostentatious, but still quite markedly different than a 3 (discounting tech age differences).

You may be right though. Thing is - CT will never be legal in Europe (including the UK) in its current guise, it would spectacularly fail EuroNCAP testing for pedestrian safety, etc, and Musk has explicitly said that it won't be available in Europe "as is" which, given Tesla seems to be all about reduction in build costs, might as well be saying that CT will never exist here full stop.

The Roadster? I can see that can getting kicked down the road indefinitely. LHD vs RHD for supercars is less of an issue, customers are more tolerant when the car is something truly special, but Tesla seems to be flat out with the mass market stuff. I really can't see the Roadster existing any time soon.

All of which is to say that for the forseeable future Tesla is going to be a two mid-range model car maker in the UK, which doesn't bode well for it in terms of brand aspirational value, I don't think. It seems weird to just give up the MPV/executive end of the market to the likes of Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche simply because you're just not making enough profit on RHD S/X cars.

and most importantly they weren't selling model S/X for few years now... least since covid started in 2019. so when refresh model are much advanced in Tech, they are only flooding RHD market with old tech, old steering, Model 3/Y cars at low/mid range....

so less of not making profit, and hard to compare the tech aspect when comparing super old tech Model S/X (2019 and before) vs recent tech Model 3/Y vs Latest Tech refreshed Model S/X in LHD market.

days are gone to compare with Audi, BMW, Porches and likes.... it's now more of competing with BYD and Toyota in sub 100K market... far from luxury and family cars.

 

[Audietron]

I just received email from Tesla that my order for model S and Model X are cancelled.... as they do not intend to produce them for RHD market....

Disappointing news....

However, I didn't receive cancellation for Cybertruck, so hoping for that order to go thru... fingers are crossed.

View attachment 936956

Apparently it looks like either they didn't plan to update website for refund options etc. or they are only trying to judge market response (PR stunt) and might backtrack to deliver Model S/X or they are trying to avoid getting into legal issue by cancelling themselves and want us to cancel the order instead...

My Model S and X pages still showing getting ready for delivery... I am surely going to wait out and keep my place in a queue. either I will be royally disappointed in long future or I will be few 100/1000 places ahead in queue to get Model S/X one of them .

 

[Tiger]

short-sighted decision... or they want to cover low range market and focus only on even more disappointing plans of Roadster and CT.

I'll put my money on short-sighted communication, i.e., they will retooli it, but in order to avoid Osborne effect, they "discontinue" it for the time being, and attract the customers to immediately available options.

 

[RossBrindleyAU]

I have not read all of the posts but I am looking for anyone else who spent money on upgrade parts for their refreshed Model S/X. I spent A$55k on getting a full brake upgrade and wheels to suit and Tesla are saying they will not offer any form of compensation. Even if I managed to sell all the parts for what I paid for them I would still be over A$15k out of pocket for shipping, customs fees and GST, and to sell the parts I would have to pay shipping and offer a discount, so that number is more like A$20-25k.

I am looking to create, or be part of, a class action to get compensation. I do NOT want to make a profit, I simply want to NOT be out of pocket.

I still love Tesla the company and Tesla the car and adore my P85D, that I have now owned for over 6 years, but legal action appears the only option.

 

[Matt_NZ]

It's not really Tesla's fault that you decided to import parts for a car you don't currently own. You counted your chickens before they hatched.