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Bighorn
Top Supercharger
I thought that was the whole point--they were going to use the existing Model S cells to increase capacity.
Originally it was 5.2 though same as the RWD car. If Tesla hadn't "lied" about the performance no one would have bought a P85 before the D came on stream.
Magically the BHP figure has also gone up too, 380 -> 422.
Now the P85 is gone, and the 70D has a quicker acceleration than the 85RWD, so they have to come clean to sell the S85D or people on design studio will just go for the 70D, which TBH is now pick of the fleet unless you must have the absolute best, or 15 miles real world range is important to you. (and will bring down ASP)
While laughing out loud you've failed to convince me that I've missed something. This is a move to bring the Model S in line with the X. History shows (referencing Model S 45 kwh) that the configurations with a small percentage of orders (or are not economically viable) are nixed or altered. Elon has said himself that the $7,500 tax isn't that significant in the greater scheme of things (It helps some, definitely). It's removal would slightly reduce some of the "economic forcing function," in his words. Don't have a go at me because you're disappointed about residuals in the company's overseas market. They're interested primarily in selling the most compelling new cars possible with the highest ASP. The used car and CPO market is just in addition to other sales activities. A Model X with less than 200 EPA miles might not be compelling (enough) in their view.
Edit: Confused ZEV credits with tax credits.
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I suggest you read up on ZEV credits.
Specifically how much Tesla receive (not in the federal grant scheme, but from cross selling other manufacturers credits).
Part of every sale of a Tesla is to the end customer, but a corresponding sale is also made to the likes of Ford and GM to allow them to continue selling ICE's.
Figures are super secretive, but at least $7k per car based on Tesla's last SEC filing. Changes made to ZEV ratings meant a 60 being worth less credits than an 85 this was bad news from a gross margin per vehicle. The 70D being able to claim the same rating as an 85, as the threshold is 275 miles NEDC range, addresses that balance.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Wait.. that's how "super rich" is defined now?
I would call "super rich" people with >$1m earnings per year. And I'm sure those people would call "super rich" those with >$10m earnings per year. Not surprised. IE 9 was released over 4 years ago! That's an eternity in internet time. Time to upgrade, dude! (or alternatively just never use IE unless you're downloading Chrome, Opera or Firefox.)
I feel the same way Rifleman… my S85 may have just lost 10k in value, but I'll be loving it every day for at least 7 years… dream car drive every time.
Gas cars look more and more antiquated every day!
We can pass them so effortlessly it's like it's not even fair :tongue: . like that movie "The Final Countdown" where F-14's were leaving propeller planes in their jetwash lol.
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The German specifications table is interesting:
Though there's none of that nonsense about anticipated gas savings, there are two different figures given for the power of each vehicle: their horsepower and their "nominal motor capacity." So the 70D is 334 horsepower (I think our units are different), but has a nominal capacity of 522 horsepower in the motors. Then you have 367 horsepower and 385 potential horsepower for the S85, 428 and 522 for the 85D — and then the P85D confuses the lot by only showing its "nominal motor capacity" and not its listed horsepower.
It's odd how all of that works. Either way, I'm very happy with the 428/522 PS I have coming to me next month.
Though there's none of that nonsense about anticipated gas savings, there are two different figures given for the power of each vehicle: their horsepower and their "nominal motor capacity." So the 70D is 334 horsepower (I think our units are different), but has a nominal capacity of 522 horsepower in the motors. Then you have 367 horsepower and 385 potential horsepower for the S85, 428 and 522 for the 85D — and then the P85D confuses the lot by only showing its "nominal motor capacity" and not its listed horsepower.
It's odd how all of that works. Either way, I'm very happy with the 428/522 PS I have coming to me next month.
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dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
The Model S was (is?) listed with 92hp/69kw in the German registration paperwork (Fahrzeugschein). The challenge is that the rules for how horse power / Pferdestärken are to be calculated are defined by the local regulations. And in Germany you are required to use the "Nennleistung" which is the power the motor can constantly produce. And with the Model S that value is significantly lower than what it can create over short periods of time. But as anyone who has tried to drive a Model S on a track will tell you - the motor(s) in the Model S get hot quite quickly and then throttle power quite dramatically.The German specifications table is interesting:
Though there's none of that nonsense about anticipated gas savings, there are two different figures given for the power of each vehicle: their horsepower and their "nominal motor capacity." So the 70D is 334 horsepower (I think our units are different), but has a nominal capacity of 522 horsepower in the motors. Then you have 367 horsepower and 385 potential horsepower for the S85, 428 and 522 for the 85D — and then the P85D confuses the lot by only showing its "nominal motor capacity" and not its listed horsepower.
It's odd how all of that works. Either way, I'm very happy with the 428/522 PS I have coming to me next month.
I'm not sure if this is enough to explain the chaos on the German ordering page, but it may be related to some of that confusion.
Since Jalopinik says the obsidian black is "really black", I was wondering if they're just joking or if its truly a deeper black (if that's poss.) w/metallic flake. If so, that would look sick with 19' tsportlines (like yours yobig :smile
"It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black."
Bighorn
Top Supercharger
No. The existing Roadster cells are ~2.2Ah cells. The Model S are ~3.35Ah cells... about 50% more capacity (assuming roughly equivalent cell nominal voltages, which they are close to).
If they had used those cells in the roadster, the existing 53Kw pack would have become nearly an 81Kw pack in it's new form. But it's not... it's around 70Kw
Bighorn
Top Supercharger
You are making two assumptions that are difficult to accept--that they'd necessarily use the same number of cells and that they'd go backwards with battery tech. Consensus was that they used the Model S cells and not something more advanced.
Jim MacInnes
Member
A brilliant move that brings the entry level model S into the lower end of the range sweet spot along with AWD.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
eye.surgeon
Active Member
There are plenty of people who prefer RWD. Myself included.
I suspect the 70D-S85 range difference to be more like 25 miles or more...I have yet to see the current D models meet their touted range estimates although Tesla keeps promising software to do so. I have my doubts.
I suspect the 70D-S85 range difference to be more like 25 miles or more...I have yet to see the current D models meet their touted range estimates although Tesla keeps promising software to do so. I have my doubts.
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