Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[Ogre]

I didn’t mean to ignite the whole political minefield.

Investing hundreds of billions propping up US auto, unions, and helping some wealthy people get into EVs is… short term thinking at best.

If we spent these billions installing solar powered charging stations, we’d all benefit for 20-30 years down the road. Rich, poor, union, non-union, US made car, foreign car… etc etc. We need about 10 times more charging stations for all these EVs one way or the other. Paying $7b to build infrastructure and $100 billion or more on cars that will rely on that infrastructure makes little sense.

 

[nate704]

I didn’t mean to ignite the whole political minefield.

Investing hundreds of billions propping up US auto, unions, and helping some wealthy people get into EVs is… short term thinking at best.

If we spent these billions installing solar powered charging stations, we’d all benefit for 20-30 years down the road.

The charging station (either solar or non solar) will not last more than 10 years average, and a lot of them fail a lot sooner than that due to accident, maintenance, defect, etc. so, maintenance and replacement cost will be high for 20-30 years or more.

 

[thinktwice]

I didn’t mean to ignite the whole political minefield.

Investing hundreds of billions propping up US auto, unions, and helping some wealthy people get into EVs is… short term thinking at best.

If we spent these billions installing solar powered charging stations, we’d all benefit for 20-30 years down the road. Rich, poor, union, non-union, US made car, foreign car… etc etc. We need about 10 times more charging stations for all these EVs one way or the other. Paying $7b to build infrastructure and $100 billion or more on cars that will rely on that infrastructure makes little sense.

Exactly. If you really want to increase EV adoption you attack the pain points preventing it. If there were charging stations on every other corner like there are gas stations I guarantee not only would consumers feel confident, but automakers would be motivated thus increasing competition and reducing EV prices across the board.

 

[Ogre]

The charging station (either solar or non solar) will not last more than 10 years average, and a lot of them fail a lot sooner than that due to accident, maintenance, defect, etc. so, maintenance and replacement cost will be high for 20-30 years or more.

A big chunk of the installation cost will be location acquisition, getting power to the locations (electricians, cabling, solar install), and permitting.

The individual chargers will likely have to be replaced every 10 years but the rest of the install costs are more-or-less permanent.

Also, what @thinktwice said above. We don’t have many charging stations right now, once we have 20 million EVs on the road, they won’t need government incentives building out the network, we just need it now when everything is just growing.

 

[nate704]

A big chunk of the installation cost will be location acquisition, getting power to the locations (electricians, cabling, solar install), and permitting.

The individual chargers will likely have to be replaced every 10 years but the rest of the install costs are more-or-less permanent.

Also, what @thinktwice said above. We don’t have many charging stations right now, once we have 20 million EVs on the road, they won’t need government incentives building out the network, we just need it now when everything is just growing.

Japan: High Number Of EV Chargers Did Not Jump Start The Market

 

[Ogre]

Japan: High Number Of EV Chargers Did Not Jump Start The Market

Don’t need to jump start the EV market, it’s already on fire. Just need to not lose the momentum we have.

 

[TSLY]

My hunch is EV credits will hit the cutting room floor. Personally not convinced they're even necessary and I'm progressive. I'd take the money and run, but already took delivery which probably would rule me out. That's what I'm talking about, too many rules! Penalize early adopters by giving the Johnny Come Latelys a free Big Mac?

 

[zpaul]

Why do we need Incentives?!?!?!
Incentives are used to move slower selling items or incentivize certain behavior.
Teslas sold out for the next 10 months!
You can't get Ford EVs either.

The best incentive is $3.50 a gallon at gas station in MD! The way it goes it soon will be $4.00.

Higher demand for EVs will result in higher prices. I would rather buy MY for $50k with no incentives than for $60k with $7,500 from Government.
MY SR is no longer even available! but that was true nice affordable MY for $39K at some point.

Just pure waste of cash.

Apply these money to build better Charging network. Tesla Superchargers are awesome but their quantity must be increased.
Other EV owners are totally hosed. My friend has Electric Audi but charges it only at home, no long distance trips for him. Charging Audi at some random Walmart lot is a gamble, most times those stations are not working.

 

[Firocity]

Why do we need Incentives?!?!?!
Incentives are used to move slower selling items or incentivize certain behavior.
Teslas sold out for the next 10 months!
You can't get Ford EVs either.

The best incentive is $3.50 a gallon at gas station in MD! The way it goes it soon will be $4.00.

Higher demand for EVs will result in higher prices. I would rather buy MY for $50k with no incentives than for $60k with $7,500 from Government.
MY SR is no longer even available! but that was true nice affordable MY for $39K at some point.

Just pure waste of cash.

Apply these money to build better Charging network. Tesla Superchargers are awesome but their quantity must be increased.
Other EV owners are totally hosed. My friend has Electric Audi but charges it only at home, no long distance trips for him. Charging Audi at some random Walmart lot is a gamble, most times those stations are not working.

They won’t be sold out like that forever once the component shortage is resolved and Giga Texas is at full production. The idea is to get people to adopt EV at a larger scale to help with greenhouse gas emissions. If the credit makes the cars priced similarly to equivalent ICE vehicles then it will increase adoption among the masses.

 

[leaftoy]

Can you guys take your policy discussions and political opinions here: Energy, Environment, and Policy

All we care about in this thread under MY is whether the Tesla tax credits will come back and when and in what form and how to manage pending orders that get delivered between something passing and coming to effect. Whether it is good policy and who "deserves" the credits, there is a whole subforum to discuss such topics.

 

[FlatSix911]

Can you guys take your policy discussions and political opinions here: Energy, Environment, and Policy

All we care about in this thread under MY is whether the Tesla tax credits will come back and when and in what form and how to manage pending orders that get delivered between something passing and coming to effect. Whether it is good policy and who "deserves" the credits, there is a whole subforum to discuss such topics.

The topics of Tax Credits and Public Policy are forever intertwined in this country.

 

[TheRev]

The topics of Tax Credits and Public Policy are forever intertwined in this country.

I mean tax credits are actually public policy, so..... But if it has to be model Y specific, I have to agree with Zpaul, Tesla has pretty much increased the price to a point where you were better off buying your Y on march and april, when you could get a LRY for $49k and now is $55k, or even a SRY for $39k, now you cant even get a SR3 for that price. I know supply chain and inflation have a lot to do here, but its clear Tesla is taking advantage of demand and getting ready for the tax credit, or how do you explain them rasing prices like that wile at the same time increasing their automotive margin every qtr. (Making more money on selling cars) its clear they dont need to increase their prices, but they choose to.

 

[leaftoy]

The topics of Tax Credits and Public Policy are forever intertwined in this country.

Not disagreeing with that. But TMC has a subforum outside Model Y subforum to discuss it.

 

[Ogre]

Can you guys take your policy discussions and political opinions here: Energy, Environment, and Policy

All we care about in this thread under MY is whether the Tesla tax credits will come back and when and in what form and how to manage pending orders that get delivered between something passing and coming to effect. Whether it is good policy and who "deserves" the credits, there is a whole subforum to discuss such topics.

Whether Model Y tax credits return or not is a policy decision made by politicians.

You can’t separate the two.

 

[patmurphey]

What angers me is that with the Bolt shut down, Tesla is the only company harmed by delaying new credits to Jan 1. It almost seems intentional with the recent snub by Biden and the appointment of Tesla/Musk hater Missy Cummings to NIHTSA to oversee ADAS systems.

 

[Spidey616]

What angers me is that with the Bolt shut down, Tesla is the only company harmed by delaying new credits to Jan 1. It almost seems intentional with the recent snub by Biden and the appointment of Tesla/Musk hater Missy Cummings to NIHTSA to oversee ADAS systems.

Starting tax credits at the beginning of the year is to simplify things when it comes to implementation. It's also just the way this kind of policy works. Very rarely do we see tax policy passed that is retroactive.

This isn't the federal government trying to screw Tesla but instead operating as they always have.

 

[Ogre]

Starting tax credits at the beginning of the year is to simplify things when it comes to implementation. It's also just the way this kind of policy works. Very rarely do we see tax policy passed that is retroactive.

This isn't the federal government trying to screw Tesla but instead operating as they always have.

If the point of implementing EV credits is to give people incentive to buy an EV, it doesn’t make sense to make them retroactive regardless.

“Here’s $7500 to encourage you to buy a car last year!”

 

[leaftoy]

If the point of implementing EV credits is to give people incentive to buy an EV, it doesn’t make sense to make them retroactive regardless.

“Here’s $7500 to encourage you to buy a car last year!”

Fair enough. But one can make an argument for it to take effect the day it is signed (or even the day it is ready to be voted on). Otherwise depending on how early before EOY the bill is signed, it can wreck the sales of companies who have currently exhausted the tax credit (i.e., Tesla, an US based company manufacturing for the US market in the US).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

What angers me is that with the Bolt shut down, Tesla is the only company harmed by delaying new credits to Jan 1. It almost seems intentional with the recent snub by Biden and the appointment of Tesla/Musk hater Missy Cummings to NIHTSA to oversee ADAS systems.

So, nothing to do with the Republicans not wanting it then.

 

[ishareit]

Fair enough. But one can make an argument for it to take effect the day it is signed (or even the day it is ready to be voted on). Otherwise depending on how early before EOY the bill is signed, it can wreck the sales of companies who have currently exhausted the tax credit (i.e., Tesla, an US based company manufacturing for the US market in the US).

Tesla will do just fine… It’s almost a trillion $ company now.

A very small percentage of people will make the switch to other brands, if that. Otherwise it’s just a matter of getting these deliveries in Q4 vs Q1.