Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla head on collision with a Honda

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

...and of course the guy who caused that accident drove away. So that's pretty straightforward, the instigator nearly hits him, and he instinctively overreacts. This causes oversteer, the driver is unable to control the swaying, and he crashes and rolls. Good thing there was a concrete median barrier - definitely saved some lives!

Yet another good reason to take a performance driving school, regardless of what kind of car you drive. It could save your life.
 
Some of the first witness reports said the Tesla did a "sudden swerve" into the Honda. That doesn't jive with drifting across a lane and a half.

I wonder if the driver can ask Tesla for the logs if he wasn't actually speeding to prove his case?

Perhaps the logs would be subpenaed if it had to go to a jury trail involving the insurance companies.
 
But his excessive speed likely drifted him into the path of the Honda due to the curve in the road. IMHO, that is vehicular homicide.

I'm going to have to assume you've never driven at high speed on a track or studied friction theory. That bend is incredibly slight. There is no way the Model S driver would be exceeding their traction budget on that bend even at full acceleration. I've taken sharper turns than that on several tracks at speeds exceeding the Model S's top speed.

I appreciate the attempt at accident forensics, but unless that road was wet I don't buy your hypothesis.

BTW, I highly encourage everyone to seek out a local car club - BMW, Porsche, or Audi tend to be the best - and attend a Car Control Clinic and also a High Performance Driving School at least once. Those clubs in particular have well trained instructors, emphasize safety and smoothness, and welcome other makes of cars. It will make you a better driver and it's a blast. Racing belongs on the track, not on the streets, and those clubs make track time affordable, accesssible, and safe.
 
Let me focus in on the key point of my theory. The Tesla driver was driving illegally for 500 feet in a closed lane. Here is what has been reported in the Laguna Beach Police accident report:

A) The Tesla driver claims the Mercedes forced him out of his lane when the 2 lanes merged. This location is noted in the picture below as A
B) The location of the Honda. It's not illogical to conclude that this is very near the point of impact. Marked as B in the picture
C) The reference point. It is where the Tesla came to rest. This can be proven by looking at the accident photo and noting the yellow sign that advises "Signal Approaching". You can see this sign in the google map below. It is the black rectangular features stretching over the South-bound lane just above the letter C. From here, we are able to place the Honda within a close proximity to where I referenced the letter B. I have driven this road for 20 years. I just verified these reference points yesterday.

Capture 3.png


The Tesla driver admits to departing his lane at point A. It is 500 feet to point B. That is an awful long time to drive illegally. How do I know the Tesla didn't just slow down and pull into his lane behind the Mercedes? Because then there would be another cause for him to veer into the Honda's lane. But he stated the cause was due to the actions of the Mercedes. And that point is 500 feet away from the point of impact. It's very clear that he continued to race in the illegal lane and then lost control of the car and veered into the Honda's lane. Why he veered into the South-bound lane I do not know. My theory that he drifted due to excessive speed is consistent with the theory that he was still racing the Mercedes. Maybe the Tesla was going 100 mph. I can see the car drifting at that speed. The Tesla is NOT a great handling car. It performed .87g on the skidpad (lateral acceleration). That is very average for a performance car and far lower than comparable sedans like the BMW M5 which is .92 The Tesla is just very heavy. I am considering the Pro handling package when it comes out.

Remember, his statement is blaming the Mercedes. He did not mention he lost control of the car for any variety of other reasons. His statement just does not add up to the evidence. For those of you who proclaim "you can't believe everything you read in the paper" - I respond that the Tesla driver's statement was repeated by several different media sources. TV, print and internet.

BTW, someone questioned the validity of the images I posted. They are correct except for the right-hand turning lane which has now been converted to a normal lane (in the overview photo which was my 1st photo in my 1st post). Everything in this image in this post is correct. Ask anyone who drives the roads, the lane markers are all correct in this image.
 
For those of you who proclaim "you can't believe everything you read in the paper" - I respond that the Tesla driver's statement was repeated by several different media sources. TV, print and internet.
Considering how frequently "news" sources parrot poorly attributed snippets of (mis)information with nary a thought of doing their own research or fact-checking, this argument is pure Swiss cheese, just needs some fine whine to go with it.
 
Source: common sense. Where else could Mercedes driver have forced the Tesla out of his lane? Look at image and give us another possibility.

Ok, so no source for the bolded text, meaning that entire post was based on assumptions and speculation. As for other possibilities:

- Mercedes brake checked Tesla forcing a swerve
- Mercedes threw coffee cup out window causing a swerve
- Mercedes performed the pit maneuver
- Mercedes had an extremely loud custom horn installed and scared the Tesla driver half to death with it while tailgating.
- etc...

Is is likely that any of those happened? No. It is possible any of those happened? Absolutely.
 
Ok, so no source for the bolded text, meaning that entire post was based on assumptions and speculation. As for other possibilities:

- Mercedes brake checked Tesla forcing a swerve
- Mercedes threw coffee cup out window causing a swerve
- Mercedes performed the pit maneuver
- Mercedes had an extremely loud custom horn installed and scared the Tesla driver half to death with it while tailgating.
- etc...

Is is likely that any of those happened? No. It is possible any of those happened? Absolutely.

none of you explanations make sense because if they happened near point of impact Tesla had an open lane between he and Honda. He wouldn't have swerved 2 lanes over. Besides, his statement to police said he was forced out of his lane. Nice try, keep trying.
 
Source: common sense. Where else could Mercedes driver have forced the Tesla out of his lane? Look at image and give us another possibility.
If you look a bit earlier in the road, the entire single lane was the Tesla's lane. The Mercedes was supposed to merge into the Tesla's lane, not the other way around. So really the Mercedes could have forced him about 100 feet further from your A marking (there's still space for two cars). It's entirely possible that the Mercedes was side by side all the way through to that point and didn't let off, which would have forced the Tesla into the double yellows. The Tesla may have overreacted and went too far to the left to avoid the Mercedes.

But without actual data of where the collision happened, the tire markings etc. it's a bit hard to play armchair accident forensics. We are all just guessing. I would rather wait for what the experts say.
laguna_accident.jpg
 
He wouldn't have swerved 2 lanes over. Besides, his statement to police said he was forced out of his lane.

Why not? Is there some maximum number of lanes one can swerve after losing control of a car? Is there a hard limit on how far a driver might oversteer when trying to recover?

FYI, he need only have swerved slightly more than 1 lane over to make contact with the Honda, not 2 lanes.

What statement to police? Source?
 
just my 2 cents

there is also the possibility that while the tesla and Mercedes was side by side, the Mercedes had difficulties staying in its lane and startet to drift in to the central divider where the tesla was, forcing the tesla into the 3 lane
also in the beginning he might have believed that he could just power by the Mercedes, that maybe was trying to pass the Tesla, just before the merge, but this is only speculations
and yes the Mercedes may have been a contributing factor, but there is so many other factors that also could have prevented this, witch just make this accident even sadder
 
Source: common sense. Where else could Mercedes driver have forced the Tesla out of his lane? Look at image and give us another possibility.

Fine, lets do that.

Lets start with the flaws in your hypothesis. You propose that the Tesla was under high acceleration and stubbornly "fighting" for position right up until he crossed over (for an unknown reason) at point B and impacted the Honda. You mention the word "physics" and you arbitrarily decide that the Tesla was traveling at 80mph for purposes of your calculation (500ft @ 80mph = 4.6 seconds or whatever).

Using the word "physics" doesn't mean that you then get to ignore actual physics. So lets start with the physics of the impact. The photographs, while not conclusive, are in fact quite consistent with an impact speed of ~80mph. A combined speed of 80mph anyways (each car traveling @ ~40mph).

The photos are not even remotely consistent with a combined impact of say, 120mph. At that sort of combined speed it seems more likely that the Honda would have been ripped apart instead of just mashed and the Tesla likely would have been as well.

Here is a video showing multiple offset collisions at an 80mph combined speed. Pay particular attention to the large car vs small car scenario at the 1:40 mark and you will see damage much like we see in this crash. Keep in mind that the Tesla is even more formidable than the Camry shown in this video, as it is both much more heavy and Tesla claims the highest structural rigidity of any car in the world -


So given that the visible damage is very consistent with a combined speed of ~80mph (or possibly lower considering what a tank the Model S is, while the Honda was 20 years old and comparatively fragile), is it your contention that the Honda was parked on the roadway?

Otherwise, the impact energies are subject to the laws of physics, in which case kinetic energy is calculated E=1/2mv^2.

Because the equation relies on the square of velocity, impact energies ramp up quickly with speed. Ignoring the units, 1/2*100*50^2 = 125,000 "whatevers" while increasing the velocity in the equation to 60 results in a total of 180,000 "whatevers" which is almost 50% more "whatevers" just moving the velocity from 50 to 60.

There is a reason that cars are not tested at combined impact velocities of ~140mph (which is what you would expect on a typical highway). The reason is that cars that are involved in a head on collision at that speed leave a smear of debris and gore as opposed to recognizable vehicles.

So your hypothesized scenario of the Tesla driver grimly fighting for position almost to the point of impact appears to be ignoring the lack of damage corresponding to high combined impact speeds.

Second, the accident photos show skid marks which clearly seem to be associated with the Tesla. If they are, they indicate that the Tesla was moving to the right at the time of impact (back into the center lane) and then curved back to the left following the impact as the torsional energies from the impact, and the implosion of the left side of the Tesla forced the car back into the oncoming lane and then opposite guardrail.

Here is a link to the photo, and note the skid marks in the center lane on the right side. I believe they are from the Tesla. I'm sure the actual investigators can determine if they are. If so, the car was moving pretty aggressively to the right at the time of impact, not to the left as you'd have us believe.

UPDATE: Canyon Crash Victims Identified; Third Driver Being Sought - Laguna Beach, CA Patch

That indicates that the Tesla in fact moved into the oncoming lane well before point B on your photo, making your 4.6 second estimate moot. In fact, if the Tesla had lost control shortly after point A on your photo, possibly as the Merc intentionally or unintentionally guttersniped him, forcing him to move to the left and react while at highway speeds, the natural result would have been to dip into the oncoming lane and then struggle to not hit the guardrail as the road curved towards him.

You see him fighting these forces and drifting unavoidably to the left, while I see him fighting these forces and winning before making a hard move to the right prior to impact. My scenario has him crossing the middle lane perhaps only a third of the way past point A and nearly hitting, or brushing against, the guardrail before beginning to fight his way back into the center lane shortly before point B.

But crucially, I also see the Tesla decelerating prior to impact. With his deceleration starting sooner than the Honda's (the Honda would not have been aware of a problem till relatively late in the process) there is no reason to suppose that he was going faster than the Honda at all, and the combined speed is likely much closer to 80 than it is to 120. Your scenario starts with the Tesla doing 80 at impact and leaves little room for the Honda to be moving at all.

The way I see it, the evidence is supportive of the idea that the Merc failed to yield and was being forced onto the shoulder while the Model S was being forced into the middle lane. If the Merc was pulling past the Tesla while crabbing the shoulder he might well have made a hard move into the lane when he thought he had passed the Tesla, due to an understandable fear of running into the brush next to the shoulder.

By this point we are maybe a third of the way from point A to point B and the Merc "cuts off" the Tesla who might be decelerating and might have hit the brakes heading into the turn. Suddenly hitting the brakes in a turn while at highway speeds is a classic way to lose control of the vehicle, and the natural motion of the car combined with the driver tending to the left to avoid the Merc could well have resulted in an uncontrolled lane departure at that point.

Do I know this is what happened? No, I am not a trained accident investigator, and I lack the logs from the Tesla and analysis of the skid marks and impact speeds that would help properly model the accident. It's an opinion based on my own (potentially flawed) interpretation of the evidence that we have.

But I do know that your hypothesis is almost entirely unsubstantiated and speculative in the extreme. The idea that these cars were drag racing is nothing but pure gossip based on a highly shaky interpretation of an incomplete set of "facts". If the police make an arrest it wont be because they relied on so called evidence generated by this forum. They will look at vehicle logs, witness statements and their own reconstruction of the accident based on actual science instead of amateur musings that are trying to pass themselves off as informed analysis.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C.O. with the analysis smack down :cool: Well done. Obviously we don't know the truth yet but the impact speed estimation seems more reasonable considering the conditions of the vehicles. I also can't imagine any modern car just skidding into the oncoming lane on such a mild curve at any speed on dry pavement without a sudden turn of the wheel. It's simply not a realistic statement.