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TESLA Headed for Lack of Cash Again?

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Jet.com is a great example of losing money yet winning in the end. They annoyed the big boys while losing stupid amounts of money until they were bought out. Same *sugar* with Uber, they are valuing that company at $120b at IPO lol. They killed the Taxi industry, while losing money. Disruption requires losing money. As long as Tesla is stealing market share, it will live on.

Sure, if you have investors who are interested in doing that, buying market share, fine. But Musk has clearly said he is not going to raise more capital with stock offerings. That part is over. Everyone else who might come up with money will be looking for some assurance they will make money which usually means company profits. Sure, Tesla can leverage their assets, but that is a limited, one time thing, like cutting down your woods to burn the wood to keep warm. Once you've done that you will get cold again.

When you are running a manufacturing business, the bottom line is... well, the bottom line. Sure Tesla is doing a lot of things in a new way, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't include not making a profit.

Actually, if they only didn't make a profit, that could go on for a year or two likely. But the issue is if they return to burning tons of money while ramping up two production lines. I don't know what to expect actually. Now that they will be selling a version of the model 3 that makes them very little money, it is hard to say how this might progress. The thought that keeps coming to mind is "maturity". The company needs to mature into a company that has a more predictable road ahead. But maybe it is just too early to expect that. Perhaps after the model Y is in full production they will have a solid enough revenue base that they can bring new products to market without risking the entire future of the company on each one.
 
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I hadn't checked the stock price lately. I almost wish I hadn't. Down to 277! Here are what analysts are saying.

"The sooner-than-expected $35,000 Model 3 announcement, "rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of U.S. sales," the Barclays analysts said."

"Moreover, "gross margins will now be appreciably lower, and thus a significant amount of additional volume is needed to offset price cuts even considering the cost saves," they said."

"'Something just doesn't add up,' says Morgan Stanley analyst"

'Adam Jonas at Morgan Stanley said in a note Tuesday that investor feedback on Tesla has been "firmly in the 'something's wrong' camp rather than 'this is a great buying opportunity' camp."'

'“We believe there has been a fall-off in U.S. demand and softer-than-expected demand in Europe/China,” they said in the Sunday note. “Price cuts on the Model S/X/3 globally supports the view that overall demand has softened.”'

We will see if the Tesla stock price recovers once the model Y is actually unveiled.
 
I hadn't checked the stock price lately. I almost wish I hadn't. Down to 277! Here are what analysts are saying.

"The sooner-than-expected $35,000 Model 3 announcement, "rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of U.S. sales," the Barclays analysts said."

"Moreover, "gross margins will now be appreciably lower, and thus a significant amount of additional volume is needed to offset price cuts even considering the cost saves," they said."

"'Something just doesn't add up,' says Morgan Stanley analyst"

'Adam Jonas at Morgan Stanley said in a note Tuesday that investor feedback on Tesla has been "firmly in the 'something's wrong' camp rather than 'this is a great buying opportunity' camp."'

'“We believe there has been a fall-off in U.S. demand and softer-than-expected demand in Europe/China,” they said in the Sunday note. “Price cuts on the Model S/X/3 globally supports the view that overall demand has softened.”'

We will see if the Tesla stock price recovers once the model Y is actually unveiled.

Sedan sales have been soft for quite a long time in the US. Americans want SUV/crossover vehicles with more cargo space and functionality. I'm a bit surprised actually that Tesla released the Model 3 before the Model Y considering this.

I've seen the argument that Tesla is lowering prices because they have a target margin % and as long as they can reach that % they are more than happy to go the Amazon/Costco route and cut prices relentlessly.

That just doesn't seem to jive with Tesla on previous earnings calls talking about the great profitability of the higher tier versions of the Model-3 and how much it contributed to a profitable/successful quarter.

The most likely theory is the most obvious one. Demand for Model 3, at least at price tiers Tesla have previously offered has been met. Despite all the bluster around 400K in pre-orders it looks like less than 50% of those have been converted into sales and it's a legitimate question how many pre-orders remain and if those customers are serious about buying one or simply forgot to cancel their reservation.

I expect the $35,000 with tax incentives to be a phenomenal car for the $$ but it's still expensive for the segment (average sedan price of accord/camry/etc probably around $26,000). Median new "car" purchase is I believe $34,000 but that includes a metric *sugar*-ton of SUV and light truck sales which are scale topping cars cost-wise.

I have found it is very difficult to have a rational discussion around this topic in the larger investment threads because they are almost entirely populated with Tesla/environmentalist cultists and they appear to be completely ensconced in a reality distortion field.

I pitched the idea of a $35,000 Model 3 to two friends who have ridden with me in my $62,000 (well a lot cheaper than that now, ha ha joke's on me) dual motor version.... both of them said the price was "better" (with Colorado tax credits the car would be less than $27,000 base price) but both of them also expressed nervousness about Tesla as a company/brand. News about closing your retail stores leaves many consumers nervous about the future of the company.

When prices get cut month after month it leaves a lot of customers waiting the company out to see how far the discounts will go. That does not mesh whatsoever with a company that is trying to position themselves as a luxury brand, so I assume Tesla no longer aspires to being an Apple type company for EV segment.
 
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$35,000 is not a bad price for a car these days. A friend was talking about her friend who wanted to buy the daughter a CRX for $35,000!

I'm pretty sure that if the model Y were out when I bought my X, I likely would have gotten the Y. It's not that I don't have the money, but I've never paid anywhere near this much for a vehicle and it was a hard hill to cross. At $60,000 fully loaded it would have been a much easier purchase. As it is, I'm pretty happy with the X. I just wish it were better on range... especially in the winter.
 
both of them also expressed nervousness about Tesla as a company/brand. News about closing your retail stores leaves many consumers nervous about the future of the company.

When prices get cut month after month it leaves a lot of customers waiting the company out to see how far the discounts will go. That does not mesh whatsoever with a company that is trying to position themselves as a luxury brand, so I assume Tesla no longer aspires to being an Apple type company for EV segment.
People are scared off by the repair factor. When I was looking at the car (S) the biggest #1 most important question I had for the sales Rep was: How long is the wait to get in for service or repairs? He said about two weeks. That was two years ago.

I drove around the lot and couldn't help but notice how jam packed it was with customer cars... many of them were dusty/dirty. I would drive by days and weeks later and see the same cars in the same spots.
 
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We can Ignore posters, but can we not just ban these more obvious trolls who simply bump their own FUD every day?

Give it a rest. The fact that you don't like the facts I post doesn't mean I'm trolling. There are plenty here who agree with me. Do you want to ban all of us?
 
People are scared off by the repair factor. When I was looking at the car (S) the biggest #1 most important question I had for the sales Rep was: How long is the wait to get in for service or repairs? He said about two weeks. That was two years ago.

I drove around the lot and couldn't help but notice how jam packed it was with customer cars... many of them were dusty/dirty. I would drive by days and weeks later and see the same cars in the same spots.
lol someone disagreed with my post? All I did was discuss my experience and observation.
 
lol someone disagreed with my post? All I did was discuss my experience and observation.

Mostly, yah. However, the first sentence
People are scared off by the repair factor.
is a generalization to which a person might disagree in the specific case. Pedantically, if more that 2 persons are worried about repair, it was accurate.:)

Question though: How did you determine they were customer cars versus trade ins/ CPOs/ inventory?
 
Mostly, yah. However, the first sentence is a generalization to which a person might disagree in the specific case. Pedantically, if more that 2 persons are worried about repair, it was accurate.:)

Question though: How did you determine they were customer cars versus trade ins/ CPOs/ inventory?

a generalization that even Elon Musk admits is an issue he has promised to resolve.

Does Tesla typically leave the license plates on used cars?
 
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The most likely theory is the most obvious one. Demand for Model 3, at least at price tiers Tesla have previously offered has been met. Despite all the bluster around 400K in pre-orders it looks like less than 50% of those have been converted into sales
More than 60% of those were from overseas, dude. Obviously less than 50% of reservations have been converted into sales. That'l change this quarter.

We simply don't have a snapshot of steady-state demand yet.

We do know that steady-state demand at the old prices for the MR & LR in the US & Canada alone (whew) was less than 6000/week. Fine, does that surprise anyone? Not me.
 
Give it a rest. The fact that you don't like the facts I post doesn't mean I'm trolling. There are plenty here who agree with me. Do you want to ban all of us?
You're trolling. You repeatedly refused to respond to rational questions and rational responses, instead derailing and diverting with new negativity (much of which was not "facts", but speculation). That's trolling.
 

The two issues he addresses are nothing stories obviously. However, Tesla moving all their sales online suddenly, combined with the penalties they'll take to exit those leases, are real stories. Unless Tesla negotiated very favourable terms with the malls, they're going to take a massive hit here. Given vacancy rates in U.S. malls currently and general softness in the retail sector, I think there's a fair chance Tesla was able to successfully negotiate favourable terms with many malls. That's far from assured tho. And how many Model S owners bought their car online? I wonder why Tesla only released Model 3 online purchase metrics, and not Model S & X? Hmm.... could it be anything to do with the fact the average buyer is 54 I wonder?
Tesla Owner Demographics by Age, Income, Gender, Home Value
This story looks very much like a company with a margin and overhead issue. As much as I don't want it to be the case, it really appears to be the case. On their last quarterly update they refenced how retail locations are key to their planning, especially as pertains to the solar business. At this point Buffalo looks like a lost cause. Tesla is on the hook hard with the state of New York, regarding tax credits and various other commitments. None of the Tesla bears have yet addressed this issue to any degree, but this is a real issue. SolarCity is now dead, the $2B+ $2B assumed debt (or whatever it was) that Tesla paid to bail out Elon's cousin has now evaporated. I mean evaporated. That's $4B+ gone. Then there's the additional liability as Tesla attempts to negotiate with the state of NY from a very very bad position.

I would generally agree that most of the Tesla bear arguments have historically been crap, but the stuff we've seen over the past couple weeks is worrying on many levels. Many of these moves reek of desperation. The only possible bad thing I'd say about the introduction of the $35k base model and the Model Y unveil is the release may have been timed to obfuscate these more problematic issues.
 
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How is Buffalo a lost cause? I'm getting standard Panasonic panels from there put on my roof in about 3 weeks. The state paid for so much build out, there's really no financial risk for Tesla. Worst case scenario they continue printing standard panels while the wildly popular solar roof product continues it's slow roll out. Employment requirements are on target and fairly easily achieved. So what's the problem?

Actually a big thing people seem to be missing about this move to online automotive sales is the impact this strategy will have on the energy side. The single biggest impediment to the residential energy services industry taking the next big step is sales cost, hence Elon fired all everyone and ended door-to-door sales. He identified something that absolutely would not scale, so he took the bold step of ending it and moving the energy group into hibernation mode.

The last SCTY earnings call pegged customer acquisition costs at $.91/Watt installed and Vivint just reported a 4Q18 figure of $1.08/W, that is absurd. Having sales(DevCo for SolarCity) essentially dictate the rollout and expansion of residential solar has put an price floor on the US market. When 30% of your pricetag is sales you can't compete, and when you try to push down costs the sales org naturally pushed back to maintain the sweet deal they got going.

Taking the step of moving sales exclusively online, Tesla sets themselves up to be by far the industry leader on cost once they decide to move back into residential solar/storage aggressively. Imagine having the most desired product, a vertically integrated manufacturing operation, and a 30% cost advantage over the entire market. Buffalo is so lean on the cost side that they can likely tread water for as long as they like, when the market turns they can pounce and dominate.
 
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