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Hey Auzie, last night I decided to not participate in the investment threads for awhile...good luck.

Lump, you and I have had our differences but I think your input can be valuable as long as you contribute by posting informative comprehensible information, as appose to the regular 2-3 sentences or punchlines... It is also critical when bulls are asking for you to expand your thoughts, that you follow up with an explanation. When reading each others' posts here, we sometimes misread the tone and take it the wrong way. I encourage you to change your mind...

I will miss your input. I appreciate bearish input and seek it to balance and keep in check my current overly optimistic outlook.

My portfolio has a good chance to be decimated in a potential market downturn. That makes me a bit paranoid about looking for bearish signals.

We all participate in and contribute to shaping the underlying market sentiment. Not hearing different voices increases the risk of not sensing the change in market sentiment
Good luck to you as well, sitting on cash and in funds is not a bad place to be, it might turn out to be better than chasing sp waves:smile:

Auzie, it is very difficult to time the market, sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. Data oftentimes come in mixed, the only sure bet is to buy yourself enough time to ride the ups and downs. If you own options that are short term, I encourage you to wind them down, use the extra cash and buy further out in terms of leaps.

While we're considering the possibility that oil could decline further, I'd like to share something on the infrastructural cost of gasoline. Acxording to the EIA (Factors Affecting Gasoline Prices - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy - Energy Information Administration) in 2013 the average retail price of gasoline in the US was $3.51/gallon. 68% of this was due to the price of crude oil which obviously varies with the oil market. However, refining, retailing and taxes accounted for 9%, 11% and 12% respectively, and these costs do not substantially vary with the price of oil. These are the infrastructural costs of gasoline that consumers pay for the convince of filling up at the gas station of their choice. This infrastructure cost is about $1.12/gal. So even if crude where were free and delivered to refineries at no cost, the retail price of gasoline would still be about $1.12/gal.

Given a price of electricity at $.12/kWh, average EV efficiency of 3.5 mile/kWh and average gas vehicle efficiency 22.5 mpg, EVs reach fuel cost parity with gasoline at about $0.77/gal.

Thus, EV parity gas prices are well below the infrastructural cost of gasoline. EVs will always be cheaper to power than gas vehicles no matter how low the price of oil may go.

As a handy little model for gas prices, it is convenient to remember that there are 42 gallons to the barrel. So roughly we get:

Gas ~ 1.12 + Crude/42

So even with oil as low as $10/bbl, gas will be about $1.36/gal.

So the average family is spending about $500 to $600 per year per vehicle just for the convenience of gasoline infrastructure. EV infrastructure is much lower, so in the long run EV infrastructure wins regardless the price of oil.

Not only is electric cheaper and more convenient, gasoline in California has not been that much cheaper than previous years. Despite the price of OIL dropping, gasoline for 91 OCTANE currently costs $3.70 in California, even though U.S crude only costs $48 per barrel. I hate to see what the price of gas would be like if OIL rises to 60-70$.

True enough! Due to US economic strength and still positive yield curve, I think a market correction of 10-15% is a reasonable expectation. Given TSLA is already beaten down pretty good, I would expect it to match (rather than amplify it). If we get the correction while TSLA is down, I'm planning on something like a $180ish support level. I'll be holding my core position thru that and adding on the way down in measured increments. No doubt, none of this will take place! :smile:

Nice reminder post jhm. I've been trying convince associates of this fact for a long time now. Markets don't seem to get this. In addition, with Solar-Storage, the EV fuel infrastructure continues to get cheaper over time (including on a relative basis)-- Thx

I have been putting much thought into the macro-economies lately and I must admit I am as puzzled as ever. The bearish and bullish signals are not as evident as one would assume. At first glance, the recent drop in TESLA stocks may be of concern, but if you look at the DOW, S&P, and Nasdaq, they are all at record highs (so there are plenty of buyers, additionally,Japan's Nekkei is also at record highs). I attribute these historical highs to the strong U.S economy, and of course, low interest rates.. the other factor that drives the stock market higher is real estate prices. Homes use to be cheap, so investors would flock to that arena for investments, but with current home prices also at all time highs, I don't see it as a feasible investment for the average speculator. Hence, they turn to other avenues, like stocks, gold, etc.

There has been some concern about Feds raising interest rates, which in turn may drive investors to the bond market. However, if Feds raise interest rates, it would indicate that the U.S economy is healthier than ever, which in turn would mean more buying power and higher value in the dollar, which then drives down gold prices. Where will gold investors put their money when gold prices are driven lower? There's the bond market, stock market, equities (a bit too risky IMO), real estate, savings or under the ole mattress, etc... Everyone of these markets will have its fair share of new investors driven by the higher dollar, lower gold value, lower oil/copper prices, etc. In the meantime, those flocking out of equities will soon be met with anxious buyer ready to buy low sell high... this in turn brings prices back to normal in due diligence. Let the current example of record Dows, S&P, NAZ be a clear reminder...

Now, if there is any indication of concern over FEDS, wouldn't the historical highs of the Dow, Naz, and S&P see some form of a contraction? Sure, however, we are seeing the exact opposite and those markets are expanding. Just how much longer? Who knows... the most common argument I've heard from bears is that the stock market has been on a tear, so it has to pull back. Just how many times have we pulled back during the past several years with the Russian Crisis, Fed Crisis, Europe Crisis, Greek Crisis, more Fed Crisis, Syria Crisis, Oil Crisis, Gold Crisis, Dollar Crisis and now FED crisis again? We've had our fair share of crisis each and every single year, reminding the market to pull itself back, only to break new highs. Why? Because we're making profits...

Not only are markets expanding, governments all over the world are easing rates (China, Japan, Europe, and as I type this South Korea, etc). Additionally, world markets are pumping hundreds of billions into Q/E, for example: Japan; while Europe has committed to one TRILLION $$$. More money = great for stocks. One other reason that supports low interest rates here in the U.S is because of Europe. If Europe remains unhealthy and in debt or weaker Euro, the U.S can't afford to raise it's interest rates because we are all exposed to Europe, our financial institutions has billions in credits tied to many European countries. Hence, if Europe is unhealthy, we need to lend a helping hand in keeping interest rates low. I do not see Europe as being healthy at this moment. If we raise interest rates soon, how will Europe repay its debt with its current Trillion $$ commitment to Q/E? Will more countries end up like Greece if we do? Hence, in order for us to raise rates, we must first see a steadier improvement in the U.S, and Europe must follow...with fears of exports being low I can't see the Feds screwing us (but hey, anything can happen) for this reason, I am predicting a delay.

On the flip side, if Europe's economy improves, then it would mean overall healthier macro-economies which justifies higher interest, just what we need for stocks to rise further.

China's GDP has recently declined, they are predicting 7% this year, down from about 7.5%, although this may seem as a negative, keep in mind that the U.S GDP is only about 2.5% so China's 7% is still pretty healthy, considering they are at a 300% growth rate compared to us. China recently reported export data, and it was a resounding beat btw. The U.S jobs market continues to be healthy, I do not see it turning 180% anytime soon. As I type this, the Nekkei has risen 240 points, Shanghai rises 44 points (1.35%) due to better than expected jobs report in Australia, which exports much of its materials to China...

Again, how does one interpret all these data? Should we pull our money and hang onto cash when the U.S continues to be healthy? Should we worry about Europe? There are too many factors and mixed signals, the picture is not clear enough to make an inform decision. Hence, we resort to our "gut" feeling, that maybe the continuous growth in the U.S economy will soon decline or will it not? How much longer can the U.S continue this amazing growth? In the meantime, the strong U.S engine is buying more time for the rest of the world to catch up. If the rising dollar is a concern for exports, it could also mean healthier imports, cheaper prices and more profits for other sectors of our economy. Higher imports, would then equate to more buying power going from the U.S towards other world economies, helping them on the road to recovery as they would need to produce more to meet U.S demand for cheaper goods. If the dollar falls in juxtaposition to the Euro, it would mean that Europe is recovering. We can also help Europe when we are traveling to their country and taking advantage of the favorable exchange rates, spending our dollars to help their local economies...

Oftentimes, when we get too clear of a picture of bad news or good news, it also means that it is too late because by then, everyone else will either be in or out.
So while all this is going on, Tesla continues to grow, the gigafactory continues to be built, Gen 3 gets a step closer to reality. Our storage solution and charging network footprint continues to increase.. where should my money be then? Bonds, equities, stocks, real estate, gold, oil, Europe, China? I don't see a better potential for a 5-10 bagger. Yes, I can lose a few points in the short term, but that's the price I will have to take. You gotta pay to play and if you are not playing, where will your money be?

Despite mixed signals from all over the place and my inability to dissect macro-economies. If there is an indication of a clear and precise picture it is the big pullback right here in our own back yard, yes I am talking about TESLA. Its pulled back pretty darn hard so far, and historically speaking, you should always buy low and sell high.... or you can play the wait and see game.
 
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Automotive industry in Germany booming, posting record profits:
- VW Group posts record profit of $17.9 Billion in 2014, raising annual production in China from current pace of 3.7 million vehicles to 5 million vehicles by 2019
- BMW posts record net profit of €5.82 Billion in 2014
- Audi 10% global sales growth in '14
 
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Automotive industry in Germany booming, posting record profits:
- VW Group posts record profit of $17.9 Billion in 2014, raising annual production in China from current pace of 3.7 million vehicles to 5 million vehicles by 2019
- BMW posts record net profit of €5.82 Billion in 2014
- Audi 10% global sales growth in '14

Great news. German auto industry is a considerable propellant towards macroeconomic improvement in Europe.

I think common currency in Euro zone works wonders for German exports (cars). Common currency eliminates competitive devaluation of currencies, facilitating uncompetitive demand generation outside of Germany.

Here is a link to a bit dated opinion piece that discusses Germany Euro advantage.

Highlights:

Eye-watering German wage restraint — German wages, adjusted for inflation, have barely risen in a decade — has boosted the price competitiveness of German-made goods within the currency union, while holding back German imports.

In short, Germany has been free-riding on demand generated elsewhere in the Eurozone. This is not healthy “system competition” between members of the currency union, but a “competitive devaluation” in all but name.

However, at least these currency movements facilitated rebalancing between E.U. economies. The devaluing economies were able to regain competitiveness and ensure that their economies continued to grow.
 
Not only is electric cheaper and more convenient, gasoline in California has not been that much cheaper than previous years. Despite the price of OIL dropping, gasoline for 91 OCTANE currently costs $3.70 in California, even though U.S crude only costs $48 per barrel. I hate to see what the price of gas would be like if OIL rises to 60-70$.

Great point about regional price differences. The easy way to ballpark your local infrastructural cost of gasoline is to subtract crude/42 from your local price. So with crude at $48/bbl, oil only contributes about $1.14 to the price per gallon. Thus, gas at $3.70 leaves $2.56 as the infrastructure cost.

So with oil returning to $84/bbl, you could see gas at $4.56.

Wouldn't it be cool if you just send gasoline over the internet. No need to pay for shipping, no need to go to a gas station to fill up. Just download at home. If only there were some genius entrepreneur to come up with Internet gas, that could really cut out a lot of cost and inconvenience. If only there were an app for that.
 
Wouldn't it be cool if you just send gasoline over the internet. No need to pay for shipping, no need to go to a gas station to fill up. Just download at home. If only there were some genius entrepreneur to come up with Internet gas, that could really cut out a lot of cost and inconvenience. If only there were an app for that.

jhm, be the change you want to see :smile:

Maybe we are already there, internet undermines the need for transportation in so many ways and reduces the demand for gas. By facilitating people connections and businesses operations without any gas usage, perhaps in some devious way we can consider that internet is delivering gas where needed:wink:
 
Wouldn't it be cool if you just send gasoline over the internet. No need to pay for shipping, no need to go to a gas station to fill up. Just download at home. If only there were some genius entrepreneur to come up with Internet gas, that could really cut out a lot of cost and inconvenience. If only there were an app for that.
Just the thought of that gives me gas.
 
If only there was a way to send energy over wires, you could just plug in...

Sometimes the obvious is too difficult to see;)

I agree this is one big advantage of EVs during every day use.

Meanwhile US auto sales are picking up more speed: US auto sales could top forecasts
Sales have been up 6% in 2014 (best since 2006)
Sales have been up almost 14% in January.
Reasons for increasing sales among others:
- rising consumer confidence
- falling unemployment
- low gas prices (sorry, for gas guzzlers only)

In January, U.S. auto sales were up almost 14 percent — and sales are strong in the first half of February — despite brutal winter weather in parts of the northeast that has slowed sales in some areas like Boston.
 
Sorry to be so coy. It's come as revelation to me that electricity has enormous infrastructural advantages over gasoline. Gasoline is expensive and risky to transport and must be sold at brick and mortar stores. By contrast electricity pretty much enjoys the advantages that online stores have over brick and mortar. It is so much cheaper to transmit power over the grid than to truck petroleum products from refinery to gas station. Think about that the next time you see a truck or train shipping petroleum.
 
Sorry to be so coy. It's come as revelation to me that electricity has enormous infrastructural advantages over gasoline. Gasoline is expensive and risky to transport and must be sold at brick and mortar stores. By contrast electricity pretty much enjoys the advantages that online stores have over brick and mortar. It is so much cheaper to transmit power over the grid than to truck petroleum products from refinery to gas station. Think about that the next time you see a truck or train shipping petroleum.
Electricity has three other key advantages. First, it has many uses other than as a motor fuel, so the infrastructure costs (which are considerable) are spread among many sectors. Second, there are many ways to make it, so no coalition of countries can control its price. Third, the health & safety issues around producing and delivering electricity can be much lower than those for gasoline.
 
Sorry to be so coy. It's come as revelation to me that electricity has enormous infrastructural advantages over gasoline. Gasoline is expensive and risky to transport and must be sold at brick and mortar stores. By contrast electricity pretty much enjoys the advantages that online stores have over brick and mortar. It is so much cheaper to transmit power over the grid than to truck petroleum products from refinery to gas station. Think about that the next time you see a truck or train shipping petroleum.

Exactly.

Electricity has three other key advantages. First, it has many uses other than as a motor fuel, so the infrastructure costs (which are considerable) are spread among many sectors. Second, there are many ways to make it, so no coalition of countries can control its price. Third, the health & safety issues around producing and delivering electricity can be much lower than those for gasoline.

Exactly.

Same goes for potential new H2 infrastructure!
And that's only one fact why some people know that FC is BS.

- - - Updated - - -

New Oil Market Report from IEA out. Forecasting oil demand growth for 2015 rising by 75 kb/d to 1.0 mb/d (report)
 
Automotive industry in Germany booming, posting record profits:
- VW Group posts record profit of $17.9 Billion in 2014, raising annual production in China from current pace of 3.7 million vehicles to 5 million vehicles by 2019
- BMW posts record net profit of €5.82 Billion in 2014
- Audi 10% global sales growth in '14

Porsche just joined the party at their annual press conference today in Stuttgart, Germany:
- Porsche deliveries rose 17 percent to 189,849 cars in 2014 and surged 34 percent in February.
 

U.S. proposes to buy up to 5 mln barrels of oil for SPR


So now "Oil QE" is upon us folks. I'm not even sure we have room in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for this much more oil, but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what to make of this, other than my macro shocks spook-o-meter has gone up a tick or two for sure. Not a good week for my long positions.

Edit: Techmaven confirms we have room for about 100 million barrels in the 700million-barrel large SPR right now. Still, I find this move odd. Is this a price floor for oil? I think not until the Saudis turn off their taps. OPEC has said $200/barrel in 2015 but that sure seems a long way off right now.

At least TSLA has mostly decoupled from oil price fluctuations since late last year. Remains to be seen if the market decides to "directly re-correlate" or not. Obviously Tesla shares a modicum of indirect effects of shifting oil prices, as do most global companies.
 
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Electricity has three other key advantages. First, it has many uses other than as a motor fuel, so the infrastructure costs (which are considerable) are spread among many sectors. Second, there are many ways to make it, so no coalition of countries can control its price. Third, the health & safety issues around producing and delivering electricity can be much lower than those for gasoline.
i would add one more significant advantage of electricity: it can be generated by the sun (via solar panels), and given the sun washes the whole planet with power every day, there isn't a need for a distribution network like the grid to provide electricity to power to any given user, particularly when there is a cost effective way to store that energy (e.g. battery storage).

surfside
 

U.S. proposes to buy up to 5 mln barrels of oil for SPR


So now "Oil QE" is upon us folks. I'm not even sure we have room in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for this much more oil, but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what to make of this, other than my macro shocks spook-o-meter has gone up a tick or two for sure. Not a good week for my long positions.

This could just be...you know...strategic. As per your own article, 5 million barrels were unloaded from the reserve last March when oil was twice as expensive as today. Sell high buy low? Seems to me like a bullish signal for oil therefore perhaps bullish for TSLA.
 

U.S. proposes to buy up to 5 mln barrels of oil for SPR


So now "Oil QE" is upon us folks. I'm not even sure we have room in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for this much more oil, but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what to make of this, other than my macro shocks spook-o-meter has gone up a tick or two for sure. Not a good week for my long positions.

Edit: Techmaven confirms we have room for about 100 million barrels in the 700million-barrel large SPR right now. Still, I find this move odd. Is this a price floor for oil? I think not until the Saudis turn off their taps. OPEC has said $200/barrel in 2015 but that sure seems a long way off right now.

At least TSLA has mostly decoupled from oil price fluctuations since late last year. Remains to be seen if the market decides to "directly re-correlate" or not. Obviously Tesla shares a modicum of indirect effects of shifting oil prices, as do most global companies.

Is 5 million barrels even material? It's about a half-day supply.
 

U.S. proposes to buy up to 5 mln barrels of oil for SPR


So now "Oil QE" is upon us folks. I'm not even sure we have room in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for this much more oil, but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what to make of this, other than my macro shocks spook-o-meter has gone up a tick or two for sure. Not a good week for my long positions.

Edit: Techmaven confirms we have room for about 100 million barrels in the 700million-barrel large SPR right now. Still, I find this move odd. Is this a price floor for oil? I think not until the Saudis turn off their taps. OPEC has said $200/barrel in 2015 but that sure seems a long way off right now.

At least TSLA has mostly decoupled from oil price fluctuations since late last year. Remains to be seen if the market decides to "directly re-correlate" or not. Obviously Tesla shares a modicum of indirect effects of shifting oil prices, as do most global companies.

The Russians are mighty quiet lately, perhaps the oil fiasco was a manufactured crisis? Why not just cut production during low demand months?
 
The Russians are mighty quiet lately, perhaps the oil fiasco was a manufactured crisis? Why not just cut production during low demand months?

The question is, whose job is it to cut production? OPEC does not want to play swing producer and progressively lose market share. Additionally one can't just stop pumping a wrll one month and start back up a few months later. When you stop the flow in a well, it starts to settle and plug up. To start it up again, re-drilling may be required. So it is a costly proposition to shut down for awhile. The other positivity is to slow down on bringing new wells into production. These are multi-year projects based on lots of contracts and financial obligations. So again it is costly to halt a project midway. What we are left with is curtailing new projects that would not bring new capacity to market for several years. The recent decline in rig counts does very little to correct oversupply right now, but it could make for an inadequate supply in several years. This is why there is a risk of oil at $40 today could precipitate $200 oil in 2018. Not saying that will happen, but if rig counts fall to far it compromises future supply. This is not at all an easy game to play.

One of the huge benefits of bringing EVs into transportation is that it diversifies the energy mix that powers transport. This gives price stability to EV drivers, while drivers of gas vehicles are subject to extreme volatility in the oil market. So not only is it cheaper to power your car with electricity, it is less volatile as well.
 
Not only are the points of Jim's last paragraph - providing energy mix diversification and bestowing price stability - beneficial to EV drivers but, far more able to turn heads in Washington DC, they are consummations devoutly desired amongst those who espouse national security and for those who attempt to foster economic growth. Carefully cultivated, these arguments can - I'm not saying will, since there are profound cross-currents at play - attract elected officials and bureaucrats of various ilks across the political spectrum.

And....these points are by no means confined to the United States. They are worldwide truisms. Political-economic structures like PRC; quasi-totalitarian states like Russia can effect them more easily than the US can, which in itself is a factor that redounds to the security and growth cultivators.
 
German DAX above 12.000 pts for the first time ever (live cam here).
2015-03-16-DAX-above-12000.jpg