Tesla Model 3 Performance vs BMW M3 - The Mic Drop

[Wooloomooloo]

When Tesla is serious about the performance versions of their cars they will do much more to differentiate them then putting in some stiffer dampeners, slapping on some bigger painted brake calipers, gluing on a carbon fiber spoiler and claiming 'mission accomplished'.

That's a little rough... to be fair, the Performance Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds with a 1/4 mile in the 11's - much faster than the regular Model 3 or even the AWD. The brakes are also pretty decent (although the pads are awful). For EV owners it's easy to forget that the difference between a 13 second 1/4 mile and an 11.7 second quarter mile in the ICE world, is HUGE. Of course ICE manufacturers have to add a lot of other goodies to justify the additional cost of that power. Anyone can make a 250hp 4 cylinder Turbo engine. The 450 - 500hp needed to get that kind of acceleration needs more thought.

The reason for the BMW M3 comparisons is quite literally because it's such an iconic car, and a pretty amazing drive. That the Model 3 gets in the ballpark with a car with a multi-decade legacy from one of the best manufacturers in the world, is quite an achievement.

 

[StellarRat]

What’s most amusing to me is the range. I hear people say that 310 miles isn’t enough. Well, sure, here’s a “similar” BMW that has 8 miles more range. But you can’t refuel at home and you have to buy premium gas.

At $4/gallon, a full tank is almost $64 for the BMW.

At $0.26/kWh, a full “tank” is just $19 for the Tesla supercharging in California.

At $0.11/kWh, a full “tank” is just $8.25 for the Tesla charging at home. Even less in some places and way less with solar.

I only pay 4.5 cents per Kwh from 10 PM to 6 AM in Oregon. So, to "fill up" here is $3.37!

 

[SageBrush]

I only pay 4.5 cents per Kwh from 10 PM to 6 AM in Oregon. So, to "fill up" here is $3.37!

I pay 2.5 cents a kWh any time of day using my net metered solar PV. That works out to $1.87 a "tank"
It is cheaper now in my neck of the woods but I'm not complaining.

 

[StellarRat]

Switching to an EV saved me about $150 / month in gas alone. That's one of the main reasons I did it. I was filling up with premium about 2.5 to 3 times a month in the G35 Coupe. It got horrible gas mileage in the city.

 

[brianman]

On the Tesla you push the accelerator and that's all you can do. On the RS3 you shift up and down (even though it's not a manual but it has very fast paddle shifters), listen to the lovely growling and crackling of the 5-cylinder engine

This is the same reason I never use spreadsheets, but instead do my math with rocks and make noises while I do it.

 

[brianman]

People who actually track often don't exactly drive their track cars for every day street/freeway driving

Some of us do: S P85, S P85D, S P85D, S P100D, and M3P.

track tires they have put on them

Track tires are not required and, IMO, some people choose to invest in tires before they've reached a skill level that warrants it.

 

[Eno Deb]

This is the same reason I never use spreadsheets, but instead do my math with rocks and make noises while I do it.

Tesla - the car for people who enjoy working with spreadsheets.

 

[brianman]

Tesla - the car for people who enjoy working with spreadsheets.

I didn't say I enjoy it. But I definitely enjoy it more than counting with rocks.

 

[CarlK]

Hard to say. It just feels more engaging to me. On the Tesla you push the accelerator and that's all you can do. On the RS3 you shift up and down (even though it's not a manual but it has very fast paddle shifters), listen to the lovely growling and crackling of the 5-cylinder engine,

Strange way to describe the biggest shortcoming of the ICE. The sentence "On the RS3 you shift up and down...." would be right on if you add the words "have to" in front of "shift". Can't blame you though. A lot people have the confusion too. On the Tesla the car will be in the most optimum gear at any given moment. What more one could ask for?

 

[Eno Deb]

I didn't say I enjoy it. But I definitely enjoy it more than counting with rocks.

Not that any of this makes sense when talking about having fun driving cars, but if you had to come up with a nerdy math analogy you could at least have chosen something less boring than spreadsheets (like MATLAB).

 

[Hota]

I have both a Model 3 (albeit a non P) and an M3 (older version). It's been a long time but I used to track my M3 regularly and I will share my thoughts.

An M3 is still an enthusiasts car when compared to a Model 3. Sure the Tesla is a fantastic car and I would much prefer to drive that on my 50 mile commute but it doesn't really come close to taking the M3 out in the twisties for a fun afternoon with the windows down.

Things in my opinion that M3 are definitively better than the Model 3:

• Brakes - If you've never driven an M3 the brakes are almost the best thing about the car. Ultimate confidence, ultimate feel. ZERO squish but not at all touchy, 60-0 in under 100 feet. It let's me drive hard because I feel as if I can get out of any bad situation quickly.
• Road feel - Almost as good as the brakes. Almost every pebble on the road comes through in my steering wheel - I literally felt a big screw stuck in my front right tire even without it losing any pressure. I think the newer M3s have gone to EPS systems which probably means they've lost a bit of this.
• Handling - The car is super balanced 50-50 and super sticky to the road with 0.9g on the skidpad (latest generation pulls 1g on the skidpad!!!). I can toss it around corners and feel like I can drive it to the edge without loosing control. Almost go-kart like.

Things in my opinion that Model 3 are definitively better than the M3:

• Acceleration - It's nice always being in the right "gear"
• Comfort - It's a much more relaxing experience with less noise, less fatigue. Good for longer drives.
• Steering ratio - I actually like the quick ratio and small wheel setup.

The M3 makes me drive fast and hard, the Model 3 doesn't. In my M3, I love trying to hit the maximum slip angle of my tires on every highway on/off ramp. I'm routinely at over 100MPH on the freeway in my M3 while I'm perfectly content cruising at 80 in my Model 3. The M3 makes me want to downshift to hit 8k RPM when I enter a tunnel so I can hear that sweet and loud exhaust. The M3 wants me to almost wreck it every time and the Model 3 just doesn't bring that out in me.

 

[CarlK]

Remember the so called 50/50 weight distribution of ICE car means nothing when compares to the Tesla skidpad layout. In an ICE car the weight is still concentrated in the front and back which contributes to the polar moment of inertia. Even the best mid-engine design is no match to the Tesla layout in terms of CoG and polar moment of inert. When you don't get the physics optimized to begin with no amount of engineering work is able to remedy that. Indeed the Pulitzer winning WSJ auto critics said after driving the performance 3 "it will definitely beat your average Porsche on your average road course".

 

[StellarRat]

No one seems to mention that your BMW will no doubt need very expensive repairs and maintenance on a regular basis once the warranty is used up. I know that some people have had manufacturing defects when their M3's were delivered, however, based on my experience with the Leaf, assuming any delivery problems are repaired there's a fairly good chance you'll never have to pay for any unscheduled repairs during the life of the car. EV's just don't break. I expect my M3 to be going strong 10 years from now. No one can say that about a BMW. I've not known one BMW owner that didn't have all kinds of expensive repairs needed after about 70,000 miles.

My brother's girlfriend just was told $2500+ dollars to replace a leaky oil pan gasket in her BMW SUV, that's outrageous. Does an M3 even have an oil pan? No!

 

[pdxev]

Your "mic drop" is factually incorrect as long as an M3 is more fun and capable for driving around a race track, which it is. While that's not important to me it is to many who buy BMW M products.

Building a self-high-fiving spreadsheet to validate your own choices and cherry picking the stats you think are important and demonstrate P3D+ superiority is just masturbatory.

In terms of capability, The P3D was tested by C&D and was about a second off the Alfa Romeo QF which is one of the new sport sedan standards. That is without track mode and with the Alfa having race tires that were rendered useless after the single track day.

Ah, dipshittery. Well, when you get the power to control when people can downvote posts then get back to me.

Here are some specs where the BMW wins;

1. Can drive 1,000 miles anywhere in the USA with no concern about where to fuel up.
2. Can drive more than 10 laps on a track day without having to go charge, having the car go into limp mode, etc.
3. Not being mistaken for the other 1M F30 based BMW 3 series cars on the road. You get a LOT for your money with an M3 beyond a faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile time compared to a regular BMW 3 series. You get completely different wheels, carbon fiber brakes, completely different and very noticeable exterior and interior style differences including a very cool aerodynamic body kit, unique LED headlights and brake lights, choice of something like 14 interior colors, unique exterior colors that are very cool and not available on regular 3 series cars.... as well as fit and finish that is miles beyond what Tesla is cranking out of the Fremont plant.
4. Performance improvements drivers care about... like a DCT that can be driven as a manual at the track or an automatic on the street.... or magnetic dynamic suspension options and chassis tuning that Tesla engineers can only dream about and drool about.

There's a lot more to comparing these cars beyond the specs and the M3 is a phenomenal car and pretty much the pinnacle of what exists in the world of internal combustion cars that sell at prices normal humans can afford.

In 30 years collectors will still admire circa 2018 BMW M3 with all the goodies, where-as the Model 3 will be viewed like a Camry.

Having said all of that, I would still choose the P3D+ over the M3 based on the kind of driving I do and the fact that I'm not an ostentatious person who needs to flaunt my car choice as a status symbol.

1. The P3D can drive across the USA with no concern about where to fuel up. Just use the trip planner and the car will tell you where to stop and for most people right now, fill up for free. Does anybody drive 1000 miles in a day in anything?
2. An average track length is 2-3 miles. Even using 2kWh/mile, you could easily do more than 10 laps. Road and Track tested it on a 1.5 mile track. Each lap killed 9 miles of range. That would be enough for 30 laps.
3. I think BMW build quality is a bit overstated. My BMW has interior panel gaps so big that I can easily see the body work from behind the front passenger door trim. Doug Demuro heavily criticized Maserati for similar findings in an expensive vehicle.
4. The other performance improvements are there but they come at quite a cost. The ceramic brakes are over $8K. The competition package with performance tires and track suspension settings is just under $5K. You are approaching or exceeding a $90K vehicle at this point. It is a fair sports sedan comparison, but you are comparing vehicles in quite different price ranges. Regarding the chassis tuning, the Tesla does have independent torque vectoring capability that BMW engineers can only dream about. The future updates will be pretty exciting. It is pretty cool that the standard P3D brakes and tires match the BMW ceramic's stopping distances from 80-0 and 60-0 and has been viewed as fairly fade free by reviewers. You could always use the $20K in savings to get some sweet ceramic brakes on the Tesla.

Let's be realistic with regards to range. With my BMW M3, I get about 15-20% higher mileage above the EPA rated mileage on the highway - and that's driving at 80+mph. This is consistent with at least my generation of M3 (E46). When I'm in any one of my Teslas, I haven't come close to rated range and then I have to worry about range disappearing as it cold soaks overnight.

You forgot to take into account charging efficiency as it probably takes maybe 85kWh of energy to fill up a 75kWh battery but regardless, most folks buying an M3 or P3D aren't caring about the few extra $ per fill up.

My previous vehicle was a 335. Regarding this highway efficiency, it is pretty accurate. Also accurate is that in my suburban/urban hilly commute, the BMW would get 15 mpg and have a range of 225 miles. The penalty for the Tesla is much less and my average mileage is 275 wh/mile in the same commute.

 

[voip-ninja]

In terms of capability, The P3D was tested by C&D and was about a second off the Alfa Romeo QF which is one of the new sport sedan standards. That is without track mode and with the Alfa having race tires that were rendered useless after the single track day.



1. The P3D can drive across the USA with no concern about where to fuel up. Just use the trip planner and the car will tell you where to stop and for most people right now, fill up for free. Does anybody drive 1000 miles in a day in anything?
2. An average track length is 2-3 miles. Even using 2kWh/mile, you could easily do more than 10 laps. Road and Track tested it on a 1.5 mile track. Each lap killed 9 miles of range. That would be enough for 30 laps.
3. I think BMW build quality is a bit overstated. My BMW has interior panel gaps so big that I can easily see the body work from behind the front passenger door trim. Doug Demuro heavily criticized Maserati for similar findings in an expensive vehicle.
4. The other performance improvements are there but they come at quite a cost. The ceramic brakes are over $8K. The competition package with performance tires and track suspension settings is just under $5K. You are approaching or exceeding a $90K vehicle at this point. It is a fair sports sedan comparison, but you are comparing vehicles in quite different price ranges. Regarding the chassis tuning, the Tesla does have independent torque vectoring capability that BMW engineers can only dream about. The future updates will be pretty exciting. It is pretty cool that the standard P3D brakes and tires match the BMW ceramic's stopping distances from 80-0 and 60-0 and has been viewed as fairly fade free by reviewers. You could always use the $20K in savings to get some sweet ceramic brakes on the Tesla.



My previous vehicle was a 335. Regarding this highway efficiency, it is pretty accurate. Also accurate is that in my suburban/urban hilly commute, the BMW would get 15 mpg and have a range of 225 miles. The penalty for the Tesla is much less and my average mileage is 275 wh/mile in the same commute.

There are plenty of places to drive in the USA where driving an electric vehicle will be far less convenient than a gas car. Can you do it with lots of planning and potential inconvenience of having to stop for hours to charge at campsite/RV-park 220V or 208V charging? Sure you can. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a big limitation.

Will it affect typical urban commuter? Probably not but it will still affect lots of buyers.

 

[pdxev]

There are plenty of places to drive in the USA where driving an electric vehicle will be far less convenient than a gas car. Can you do it with lots of planning and potential inconvenience of having to stop for hours to charge at campsite/RV-park 220V or 208V charging? Sure you can. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a big limitation.

Will it affect typical urban commuter? Probably not but it will still affect lots of buyers.

I guess there are some holes in sparsely populated areas of the nation, but the supercharger map seems pretty comprehensive for major road trips. It just doesn't seem like a big limitation with all those highways covered.

 

[voip-ninja]

I guess there are some holes in sparsely populated areas of the nation, but the supercharger map seems pretty comprehensive for major road trips. It just doesn't seem like a big limitation with all those highways covered.

It's mind blowing to me when people imply that they are covered by super-charger.

Let's say I take a road trip to my parents place in northern new england. The closest supercharger is over 100 miles away. That's not even a rural area.

Yes, if you road trip between major metro areas Supercharger probably has you covered in most cases, but not even all of those. If you go to smaller towns forget it... unless you are going to make side-trips to super-charger or other charging station to top off while you are there and wait around for hours doing it.

Again, there are use cases, lots of them in fact, where gas cars are still a lot more convenient.

 

[CarlK]

There are plenty of places to drive in the USA where driving an electric vehicle will be far less convenient than a gas car. Can you do it with lots of planning and potential inconvenience of having to stop for hours to charge at campsite/RV-park 220V or 208V charging? Sure you can. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a big limitation.

Will it affect typical urban commuter? Probably not but it will still affect lots of buyers.

On the other hand there are lot more places where driving an EV is far more convenient than a gas car. Like within a hundred miles of one's home where 95%, if not more, of driving is done for most people. They usually do not have a gas station in their garage.

 

[voip-ninja]

On the other hand there are lot more places where driving an EV is far more convenient than a gas car. Like within a hundred miles of one's home where 95%, if not more, of driving is done for most people. They usually do not have a gas station in their garage.

 

[StellarRat]

There are plenty of places to drive in the USA where driving an electric vehicle will be far less convenient than a gas car. Can you do it with lots of planning and potential inconvenience of having to stop for hours to charge at campsite/RV-park 220V or 208V charging? Sure you can. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a big limitation.

Will it affect typical urban commuter? Probably not but it will still affect lots of buyers.

I don't know many people that take their expensive luxury cars into the "bush". That's usually reserved for pickup and SUVs.