Tesla Model 3 Performance vs BMW M3 - The Mic Drop

[Wooloomooloo]

Ah, dipshittery. Well, when you get the power to control when people can downvote posts then get back to me.

Hey, I didn't invent it.

Here are some specs where the BMW wins;

1. Can drive 1,000 miles anywhere in the USA with no concern about where to fuel up. Not unique to the Beemer, applies to any ICE car
2. Can drive more than 10 laps on a track day without having to go charge, having the car go into limp mode, etc. Applies to almost any ICE Car, not unique to the Beemer
3. Not being mistaken for the other 1M F30 based BMW 3 series cars on the road. You get a LOT for your money with an M3 beyond a faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile time compared to a regular BMW 3 series. You get completely different wheels, carbon fiber brakes, completely different and very noticeable exterior and interior style differences including a very cool aerodynamic body kit, unique LED headlights and brake lights, choice of something like 14 interior colors, unique exterior colors that are very cool and not available on regular 3 series cars.... as well as fit and finish that is miles beyond what Tesla is cranking out of the Fremont plant. So what? So you're saying the a differentiation of the BWM M3 is that it compares more favorably to other BMW's (which are over-priced and under-specced) compared to the Model 3, where the differentiation is smaller? That's not a strong argument.
4. Performance improvements drivers care about... like a DCT that can be driven as a manual at the track or an automatic on the street.... or magnetic dynamic suspension options and chassis tuning that Tesla engineers can only dream about and drool about.

BMW's certainly have nice chasis, although I think their DCT is not as good as Audi/VW's DSG - but that's personal preference.

Responses in red - and look, I'm 46 years old and driven German cars exclusively since I was 19 (aside from a Saab 93 in the early 00's), including a BM'er, so I can relate to your passion.

It's far more interesting to actually hear the arguments, than a mysterious thumbs down.

 

[Gavyne]

People put so much stock into "lap performance" yet overwhelming majority of the people who buy BMW M3 do not track at all. People who track represent a very tiny fraction of the actual enthusiast market. Some like to diminish the whole 0-60 or 1/4 performance as not a big deal yet for street and freeway driving, the instant torque and 0-60 are what makes the Model 3 so much more fun to drive.

Anyways BMW M3 are good cars, but people who buy it are not buying them to track. Same with Model 3, most who buy the Model 3 are not buying it to run laps either. The whole track comparison is just a pissing contest, ironically most often argued by people who don't track themselves.

 

[Eno Deb]

What did you miss in the TM3, that you found in the Audi?

Hard to say. It just feels more engaging to me. On the Tesla you push the accelerator and that's all you can do. On the RS3 you shift up and down (even though it's not a manual but it has very fast paddle shifters), listen to the lovely growling and crackling of the 5-cylinder engine, and it also feels more agile around corners (perhaps because of the suspension, or because it weighs over 500 pounds less than my AWD). The interior also feels much more substantial. In comparison, the Model 3 feels more like an appliance with nerdy computer toys; it has its own appeal and effortless acceleration, but doesn't really give me the visceral driving experience of a sporty ICE car.

 

[Gavyne]

Hard to say. It just feels more engaging to me. On the Tesla you push the accelerator and that's all you can do. On the RS3 you shift up and down (even though it's not a manual but it has very fast paddle shifters), listen to the lovely growling and crackling of the 5-cylinder engine, and it also feels more agile around corners (perhaps because of the suspension, or because it weighs over 500 pounds less than my AWD). The interior also feels much more substantial. In comparison, the Model 3 feels more like an appliance with nerdy computer toys; it has its own appeal and effortless acceleration, but doesn't really give me the visceral driving experience of a sporty ICE car.

I think what you are looking for is a 2nd car, a cheap track car that you can beat up and get dirty with. Many are doing that because you don't exactly want to mess up that beautiful IKEA Model 3. People who actually track often don't exactly drive their track cars for every day street/freeway driving, because of the low mileage, track tires they have put on them, and how dumb they are (sorry no self driving, navigate on auto, over the air updates, and all the safety features you find in Model 3).

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Hard to say. It just feels more engaging to me. On the Tesla you push the accelerator and that's all you can do. On the RS3 you shift up and down (even though it's not a manual but it has very fast paddle shifters), listen to the lovely growling and crackling of the 5-cylinder engine, and it also feels more agile around corners (perhaps because of the suspension, or because it weighs over 500 pounds less than my AWD). The interior also feels much more substantial. In comparison, the Model 3 feels more like an appliance with nerdy computer toys; it has its own appeal and effortless acceleration, but doesn't really give me the visceral driving experience of a sporty ICE car.

Right, and that's a personal preference around driving. When I had my ICE car, it was a manual and on the forums I'd make fun of people with the DSG for not 'really' driving - the computer (appliance) is doing everything. Then of course you get someone driving a non-syncro Jag from the 60's saying that unless you have to rev-match on downshift, you're not really driving. But wait... drivers are all wimps anyway, unless you're on a motorbike, you're missing out!

And so on... Audis are quite characterless really, and have been since the Audi 80.

 

[voip-ninja]

People put so much stock into "lap performance" yet overwhelming majority of the people who buy BMW M3 do not track at all. People who track represent a very tiny fraction of the actual enthusiast market. Some like to diminish the whole 0-60 or 1/4 performance as not a big deal yet for street and freeway driving, the instant torque and 0-60 are what makes the Model 3 so much more fun to drive.

Anyways BMW M3 are good cars, but people who buy it are not buying them to track. Same with Model 3, most who buy the Model 3 are not buying it to run laps either. The whole track comparison is just a pissing contest, ironically most often argued by people who don't track themselves.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the four persons I know who own M cars (two M3, one M4 and one M5) ALL have tracked their cars.

As I said, If I was spending $75,000 I would absolutely choose the P3D+ over the BMW M3 or M4. However, there are absolutely reasons to choose the BMW and making a specification list that leaves out some of BMW advantages and then declaring 'mic drop' points more to a person's own insecurities than any shortcoming on BMWs end of things.

When Tesla is serious about the performance versions of their cars they will do much more to differentiate them then putting in some stiffer dampeners, slapping on some bigger painted brake calipers, gluing on a carbon fiber spoiler and claiming 'mission accomplished'.

 

[eladts]

1. Can drive 1,000 miles anywhere in the USA with no concern about where to fuel up.

Many gas station in rural areas don't carry the premium gasoline the BMW M3 requires (93 recommended and 91 minimum), so you can't just go anywhere in the US with no planning.

 

[voip-ninja]

Many gas station in rural areas don't carry the premium gasoline the BMW M3 requires (93 recommended and 91 minimum), so you can't just go anywhere in the US with no planning.

Wrong.

Any car that 'requires' premium octane fuel has zero problems running on regular unleaded gasoline. The car has a knock detector and will retard the timing if the fuel is lower octane than expected.

About all it means in practical terms is you will have slightly less power and get worse fuel economy.

 

[commasign]

I think the key point is that car enthusiasts wanting to "go green" (whether than means adding a car to their garage or replacing a car in their garage) can now choose a Model 3 Performance rather than settle for a Toyota Prius or BMW i3.

 

[SageBrush]

What’s most amusing to me is the range. I hear people say that 310 miles isn’t enough. Well, sure, here’s a “similar” BMW that has 8 miles more range. But you can’t refuel at home and you have to buy premium gas.

At $4/gallon, a full tank is almost $64 for the BMW.

At $0.26/kWh, a full “tank” is just $19 for the Tesla supercharging in California.

At $0.11/kWh, a full “tank” is just $8.25 for the Tesla charging at home. Even less in some places and way less with solar.

Exactly, although I would translate that into a cost difference over 150k miles.
You have to help people that have money but struggle with arithmetic

 

[brucet999]

Ha! Telling that to my BMW friend next time I see him.

You can also tell your friend that another name for BMW among Germans who prefer cars from Stuttgart, is Bayerische Mist Wagen (in English, Bavarian manure vehicle).

 

[eladts]

Wrong.

Any car like that 'requires' premium octane fuel has zero problems running on regular unleaded gasoline. The car has a knock detector and will retard the timing if the fuel is lower octane than expected.

About all it means in practical terms is you will have slightly less power and get worse fuel economy.

Tell that to BMW, not to me. By the way, the regular fuel in Europe is RON 95, which is roughly equivalent to AKI 90. The premium fuel in Europe is RON 98, which is roughly equivalent to AKI 93.

BMW M3 Owner Manual

 

[Hota]

What’s most amusing to me is the range. I hear people say that 310 miles isn’t enough. Well, sure, here’s a “similar” BMW that has 8 miles more range. But you can’t refuel at home and you have to buy premium gas.

Let's be realistic with regards to range. With my BMW M3, I get about 15-20% higher mileage above the EPA rated mileage on the highway - and that's driving at 80+mph. This is consistent with at least my generation of M3 (E46). When I'm in any one of my Teslas, I haven't come close to rated range and then I have to worry about range disappearing as it cold soaks overnight.

You forgot to take into account charging efficiency as it probably takes maybe 85kWh of energy to fill up a 75kWh battery but regardless, most folks buying an M3 or P3D aren't caring about the few extra $ per fill up.

 

[voip-ninja]

Tell that to BMW, not to me. By the way, the regular fuel in Europe is RON 95, which is roughly equivalent to AKI 90. The premium fuel in Europe is RON 98, which is roughly equivalent to AKI 93.

BMW M3 Owner Manual

From your linked manual;

Do not use any gasoline below the mini‐ mum fuel grade as this may impair engine performance.◀ If you use gasoline with this minimum AKI Rat‐ ing, the engine may produce knocking sounds when starting at high outside temperatures. This has no effect on the engine life

So, yeah, you can use lower octane fuel just fine and it has no affect on engine life it can just cause knocking sounds and reduced performance.

So tell me again how you can't drive your BMW anywhere you damn well please that has a gas station.

 

[Hota]

You can also tell your friend that another name for BMW among Germans who prefer cars from Stuttgart, is Bayerische Mist Wagen (in English, Bavarian manure vehicle).

Well I like to brag how my Teslas are one of the few vehicles that can run on beautiful black American coal .

 

[CarlK]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the four persons I know who own M cars (two M3, one M4 and one M5) ALL have tracked their cars.

As I said, If I was spending $75,000 I would absolutely choose the P3D+ over the BMW M3 or M4. However, there are absolutely reasons to choose the BMW and making a specification list that leaves out some of BMW advantages and then declaring 'mic drop' points more to a person's own insecurities than any shortcoming on BMWs end of things.

When Tesla is serious about the performance versions of their cars they will do much more to differentiate them then putting in some stiffer dampeners, slapping on some bigger painted brake calipers, gluing on a carbon fiber spoiler and claiming 'mission accomplished'.

Don't know what kind of drivers your friends are but few serious track drivers take their daily driver to the track. Specially track prepared cars, either street legal or not, are much cheaper and better solutions. Even for OEM cars M3 is not considered as a serious track contender as Porsche's GT's. It may not be as punishing to drive on the road but you are still paying a high price on either side for making it a dual purpose car.

 

[mswlogo]

One correction, you can't say Blind Spot etc. Included on Model 3 unless you include EAP.

 

[voip-ninja]

Don't know what kind of drivers your friends are but few serious track drivers take their daily driver to the track. Specially track prepared cars, either street legal or not, are much cheaper and better solutions. Even for OEM cars M3 is not considered as a serious track contender as Porsche's GT's. It may not be as punishing to drive on the road but you are still paying a high price on either side for making it a dual purpose car.

Two of them are fairly serious in the sense that they take their cars to the track several times a year for track days or weekends. One of them has a dedicated track car (heavily modified WRX) that he also daily drives on occasion but he mostly daily drives the M5 which he's also tracked.

I'm not going to debate that most who purchase performance cars like P3D+ or M3 don't take them to the track because that is probably true. I am going to point out that there are some things the M3/M4 are simply better at than the P3D+ and track days are one of them.

I hate smug threads like this because it basically boils down to smug posting about how car choice A is so much better than car choice B that anyone who chooses car B is an idiot.

Both the P3D and the BMW M3/M4 are phenomenal vehicles but there are absolutely reasons that someone would choose the BMW over the Tesla.

 

[voip-ninja]

Here's a track...

Tesla reclaims Laguna Seca record with a Model 3 Performance driven by an amateur

Probably within 5 or so seconds of the best stock BMW M3 times. Will be interesting to see what happens once they enable track mode with customizations.

You understand that 5 seconds on Laguna is an eternity right?

 

[xav-]

One thing I noticed is I haven’t seen a brand new M3 on the road for a long time. I think a lot of people got frustrated that they got rid of the V8 too.. the previous M3 with the V8 engine sounded so much better...

Anyway... some like me got ridiculed 6 months ago for suggesting the Performance 3 would put the M3 out of business. Apologies accepted!!

Can’t wait to see what’s gonna happen in Europe to those cars... not as common as in the US for sure... but at $9 gallon and often cheap electricity rates...

RIP C Class AMG, BMW M3, S4 and fellow gas guzzlers