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SCW-Greg
Active Member
Early reservations will skew way higher actually (since the highly optioned models will be first off the line), but over the course of a year plus, I would expect it to loat back towards this number (inflation not withstanding).
I still do not understand why GM is building their EV models with Chevy's. I think they should have had Buick EVs. The typical Buick customer is at that price point (30k+). Furthermore Buicks, IMHO, just look better than Chevy's. Finally Buicks are really popular in China. You combine the Buick badge and styling with EVs and I think GM could hit it big with EVs...
Unless these are just compliance cars anyways....
Unless these are just compliance cars anyways....
Bolt vs Model 3 is not a contest.
1. GM is going to make just 50K Bolts a year
2. Low production volume is due to lack of battery sources.
3. Tesla solved the battery shortage by building their own Gigafactory.
4. GM can never be a serious EV manufacturer without their own Gigafactory.
5. Bolt is pricier, uglier, slower, cheaper quality, and smaller than the Model 3.
6. GM needs the Volt & Bolt to meet compliance regulations, and not for profits. They have their truck and SUV lines for that.
7. Dealerships won't sell the Bolt at the expense of a gasoline car that brings them more business regularly.
1. GM is going to make just 50K Bolts a year
2. Low production volume is due to lack of battery sources.
3. Tesla solved the battery shortage by building their own Gigafactory.
4. GM can never be a serious EV manufacturer without their own Gigafactory.
5. Bolt is pricier, uglier, slower, cheaper quality, and smaller than the Model 3.
6. GM needs the Volt & Bolt to meet compliance regulations, and not for profits. They have their truck and SUV lines for that.
7. Dealerships won't sell the Bolt at the expense of a gasoline car that brings them more business regularly.
Gm is basically years behind Tesla as they cannot make a BEV's as cheap as Tesla. No gigs factory and inferior battery tech from LG chem. therefore they can not add lots of fetures and use quality materials. They also expect to make same amount of profit as there fossil fuel cars.
This Tesla fanboy cult is amazing. It has completely clouded your judgement .
Read this: Tesla hype watch: You know the Model 3 doesn't exist yet, right?
Read this: Tesla hype watch: You know the Model 3 doesn't exist yet, right?
Bolt is a bit too small for using. Model 3 is already small car.
And if Bolt have the auto pilot and long as BMW 3xx, I may think about that (also make the price around 35k).
a CPO 2013 BMW 328 15k miles' price is $23,000. I could not image why I spend more than 40k on EV without more advanced functions.
And if Bolt have the auto pilot and long as BMW 3xx, I may think about that (also make the price around 35k).
a CPO 2013 BMW 328 15k miles' price is $23,000. I could not image why I spend more than 40k on EV without more advanced functions.
xmetal
Member
The Bolt, while mildly compelling BEFORE the Model 3 came out, simply won't be on the radar of most buyers. You'd be on one side or the other from the start, I seriously doubt more than a tiny percentage of folks would really seriously cross-shop them because their attitude and design are so different.
I would very much like to have both of the Model 3 I reserved, so that both my wife and I can be fully EV. We share a Leaf and ICE now and are so spoiled by the EV that we honestly loathe having to take the ICE out.
So to make that happen, we'd need to spec these cars very lightly and I hope that lightly optioned versions are near or less than the "$42k average" that Elon mentioned. In looking at the Model S, the only things that are critical to me (not so much for my wife) is air suspension and dual motor. Stock interior and sound package is fine, and I live in FL so cold weather is irrelevant. I could take or leave the glass roof too and would skip it if it's pricey.
I would very much like to have both of the Model 3 I reserved, so that both my wife and I can be fully EV. We share a Leaf and ICE now and are so spoiled by the EV that we honestly loathe having to take the ICE out.
So to make that happen, we'd need to spec these cars very lightly and I hope that lightly optioned versions are near or less than the "$42k average" that Elon mentioned. In looking at the Model S, the only things that are critical to me (not so much for my wife) is air suspension and dual motor. Stock interior and sound package is fine, and I live in FL so cold weather is irrelevant. I could take or leave the glass roof too and would skip it if it's pricey.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
Neither does the Bolt.
But as a Tesla owner, and all the other owners can attest, Tesla never disappoints... with one exception - delivery dates.
Highest customer satisfaction ratings, ever. Best car Consumer Reports has ever tested. Numerous car trade rag accolades. Broke the National Highway testing rig (safest car tested ever). And so on.
Find anything close in any GM product... or any other brand.
Our expectations have been consistently blown away, since 2009 with the Roadster.
$15K?
Well at least you can get $10K off in CA.
For an econobox type car, it is a big step up over a 1.5L ICE buzz trap.
The Bolt has that look of a mini-SUV, so GM market research must have told them that's what people like
I get that Tesla people are into sedans and I agree that's the better format.
Perhaps the Bolt hate is just Tesla people worrying that the Bolt will tarnish the cool factor of BEV.
I think you have to wait until people get a chance to drive them.
To some people; ground clearance, cargo loading, ride comfort, economy, are deciding factors.
Model-3 might be weaker in those areas, but definitely stronger in driving dynamics and luxury amenities.
I don't want a Bolt, but I can see how some people might buy it, over a Model 3.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
$15K?
Well at least you can get $10K off in CA.
For an econobox type car, it is a big step up over a 1.5L ICE buzz trap.
The Bolt has that look of a mini-SUV, so GM market research must have told them that's what people like
I get that Tesla people are into sedans and I agree that's the better format.
Perhaps the Bolt hate is just Tesla people worrying that the Bolt will tarnish the cool factor of BEV.
I think you have to wait until people get a chance to drive them.
To some people; ground clearance, cargo loading, ride comfort, economy, are deciding factors.
Model-3 might be weaker in those areas, but definitely stronger in driving dynamics and luxury amenities.
I don't want a Bolt, but I can see how some people might buy it, over a Model 3.
It's not that they won't sell. They will. And if it had no competition from Tesla, it would sell maybe 3-4x more. But Tesla is rewriting to rules/expectations for a given price point... that you can just read the hurt on the GM wall already.
Snowdog
Member
I am still having a hard time finding logic in that post.
No one is putting a gun to the buyers head and forcing them to buy options.
If you want a 35K TM3 you will be able to order/buy one.
Also it isn't like GM won't have options, I can add more than $10000 in options to a Volt, it is unlikely to change with the Bolt.
So is it that the GM options will be so terrible that no one will buy them, and the Tesla options are so awesome, that no one can resist them? That seems a bit absurd.
I am quite sure I could resist options. Maybe resisting options is my superpower, or maybe I am normal, and not being able to resist options is your critical weakness.
In the end we are not all the same, people like me with the Option resisting superpower, could buy a TM3 for the price of a Bolt, and I have a hard time imaging the circumstance under which I would buy a Bolt over a TM3. Except as a lease while waiting for a TM3 to come in.
Funny, that you would mention Customer Reports: Tesla Reliability Doesn’t Match Its High Performance
By the way, the Bolt EV is in pre-production, while Model 3 is still an unfinished concept car.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
You know the original Model S was announced more than two years out, with certain specs (range, acceleration, and price), and launched with everything it claimed and more. So Tesla's track record, while not perfect, has been tested and consistently more than exceeded customer's expectations. So if you have done your homework and you see accolade after accolade, written up by both people who own, and people who don't, people in the industry and people who aren't, it should come as no surprise the global excitement being thrown down for the Model 3.
I'd take this bet on the Model 3's post launch success in measurements for things like sales rates, customer satisfaction, performance, and safety ratings over the Bolt any day. Would you?
I went to web archive just for you: Model S | Tesla Motors
These are EPA figures: Driving Range for the Model S Family
P.S.: I don't need to do my homework. I've been driving electric and following the scene since 2008. I've also been following this forum even before I registered and I know what problems Model S faced. Drive unit replacements, annual replacement of 12V battery, vampire drain. Service times of 3-4 months in Europe for non-critical repairs. Do I need to go on?
These are EPA figures: Driving Range for the Model S Family
P.S.: I don't need to do my homework. I've been driving electric and following the scene since 2008. I've also been following this forum even before I registered and I know what problems Model S faced. Drive unit replacements, annual replacement of 12V battery, vampire drain. Service times of 3-4 months in Europe for non-critical repairs. Do I need to go on?
SCW-Greg
Active Member
Apologies for the homework statement. Sounds like you're well aware then.
Note, no EV EPA rating standard was in place at the time when the Model S was announced. Only after it was hitting the streets.
But I stand by this statement to you... It should come as no surprise this global excitement for launch of the Model 3
Why does the video show the price of the Model 3 without the rebate and the Bolt with the rebate? If their intention wasn't to make the base price of the Bolt look cheaper then seems like an odd mistake.Which one you bet on ?
I'm pretty sure the Bolt won't stand a chance against the Model 3
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