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green1
Active Member
There are actually an amazing lack of studies on the subject, but what I could find was an Edmunds.com study quoting that on average cruise control saved about 7% on most cars.
I won't argue if your particular car could do better, because I don't know if Tesla seriously screwed up their cruise control to be less efficient than pretty much every other car out there, nor do I know if you are making completely unreasonable compromises in the name of saving a couple percent (decreasing to 20mph and blocking traffic going up hills, accelerating to 100mph down hills and causing a hazard, unsafely drafting large vehicles, never lifting your eyes off the energy monitor to look at the road, etc)
All I can say with nearly 100% certainty is that for the average person, and in the average cruise control equipped vehicle, you will save energy by using the cruise control. It will also be a lot more pleasant on long drives.
I won't argue if your particular car could do better, because I don't know if Tesla seriously screwed up their cruise control to be less efficient than pretty much every other car out there, nor do I know if you are making completely unreasonable compromises in the name of saving a couple percent (decreasing to 20mph and blocking traffic going up hills, accelerating to 100mph down hills and causing a hazard, unsafely drafting large vehicles, never lifting your eyes off the energy monitor to look at the road, etc)
All I can say with nearly 100% certainty is that for the average person, and in the average cruise control equipped vehicle, you will save energy by using the cruise control. It will also be a lot more pleasant on long drives.
green1
Active Member
Well, your anecdotal experience directly contradicts actual testing by Edmunds.com, and the US Department of Energy. Not to mention the fact that it is simply not believable that you are capable of holding an accelerator pedal more still than the computer, so it simply wouldn't make any sense either.
I'll choose to believe the professionals who have done the studies thank you. (though you are welcome to point me to studies that confirm your point of view)
That said, as I mentioned earlier, I feel that Tesla could do even better if they were to allow different modes to the cruise control to allow even better fuel efficiency to really knock the numbers out of the park.
I'll choose to believe the professionals who have done the studies thank you. (though you are welcome to point me to studies that confirm your point of view)
That said, as I mentioned earlier, I feel that Tesla could do even better if they were to allow different modes to the cruise control to allow even better fuel efficiency to really knock the numbers out of the park.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
For any automated task on a car, it's always possible to find a person that's able to do it better than the computer. That person may be one, two or three standard deviations better than the average driver, but it doesn't change the statistical data that demonstrate that automation like ACC benefits more of us than not.
gjunky
Trifecta: Solar and both cars are EVs
Wow, was that tone necessary? Your average cruise control is only good at one thing, and that is maintaining a constant speed. It however has no knowledge of terrain or anything else that goes on in traffic. This is where a human could improve on the gas mileage. Cruise control was not designed to save gas. It was designed as a convenience. Do you know all the circumstances of the Edmunds test?
green1
Active Member
Well, I have read the Edmunds test, I did not read the DOE test. However I have never seen any test that refutes it, just lots of individuals on various forums claiming they know better than the professionals who have actually done the tests.
You're right that cruise control (the old fashioned variety, not the type being discussed in this thread) is only good for maintaining a constant speed, but it turns out that it does that REALLY well, and that humans don't do that very well at all, and that a constant speed is much more efficient than one that is constantly changing...
Sure, on some unusual highways the cruise control, if not properly set up, will do worse than a driver who is paying a lot of attention. but on average the cruise wins every time.
People love to think they can do everything better than a computer, but whether we're talking automatic transmissions, cruise control, or full self driving cars, the evidence is always that the computer does better. People don't like to hear it, but that doesn't change the facts.
You're right that cruise control (the old fashioned variety, not the type being discussed in this thread) is only good for maintaining a constant speed, but it turns out that it does that REALLY well, and that humans don't do that very well at all, and that a constant speed is much more efficient than one that is constantly changing...
Sure, on some unusual highways the cruise control, if not properly set up, will do worse than a driver who is paying a lot of attention. but on average the cruise wins every time.
People love to think they can do everything better than a computer, but whether we're talking automatic transmissions, cruise control, or full self driving cars, the evidence is always that the computer does better. People don't like to hear it, but that doesn't change the facts.
SlyWombat
Member
I really dont care if it costs more in energy, we are screwed if every conversation is how many watts are used, if that is the case we should have manual crank windows, that motor destroys my kw/h each time I roll the window down 
if the feature is there, you dont have to turn it on and you can do your own driving, but for a daily commute on a highway, ACC is a wonderful thing.
if the feature is there, you dont have to turn it on and you can do your own driving, but for a daily commute on a highway, ACC is a wonderful thing.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
I really dont care if it costs more in energy, we are screwed if every conversation is how many watts are used, if that is the case we should have manual crank windows, that motor destroys my kw/h each time I roll the window down
+ 1
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Analyst+Takes+Deep+Dive+Into+Tesla+%28TSLA%29+Factory/9778304.html
From the above linked article:
The analyst also believes driver assist could be coming to Tesla Model S in the not too distant future, based on his observations:
From the above linked article:
The analyst also believes driver assist could be coming to Tesla Model S in the not too distant future, based on his observations:
- On the factory floor, we observed an area set aside and labeled "Driver Assist"
- We at GER speculate, it is more than just parking sensors and probably it could very well be the much rumored feature of "Driver Assist" that could be using MobileEye technology
stephenpace
VIN S00219
On the one hand I want to believe everything in this report. On the other hand, it is Trip Chowdhry, so I'm torn.
I've now had adaptive cruise control on two consecutive Lexus LS cars (an LS430UL and an LS600hL) dating back to 2002.
So the technology has existed, and has worked in production cars for at least 12 years. Not exactly new, bleeding edge technology.
Yes, the original 2002 LS430UL used lasers, which was dumb, and automatically turned off in the rain, but on the 2008 LS600hL, it works flawlessly. And the newer versions of these cars, as well as Mercedes excellent implementation of this technology shows that it's more than ready for primetime.
Plus, respectfully, who cares if it reduces range??? It has an on and off switch. If you're worried about range using it, turn it off.
I hesitated buying the Tesla because I felt that the lane departure warning system and adaptive cruise control should be mandatory in cars, and I felt like I was buying some of yesterday's technology with the car missing it. And I'm still not happy about that.
Those features need to be placed in the cars. And they need to make them able to be retrofit into the Model S. (Yes, I know sensors and displays will need to be added, and I'll have to pay more that way than if it was in the car I receive, but these features really are important safety features.)
The Mercedes S class and Lexus LS cars have been test beds for new technology for many, many years. Some of those features don't work their way into other cars, but most do. I could name a huge list of features I've had in those cars about a decade before I see these stupid commercials from Detroit talking about these "new" amazing features on their cars.
Tesla needs to get into that same mindset. Their premier sedan needs to be a test bed for new, state-of-the-art technology (I know it has some, but they need to turn the dial to 11.) If they do, they will get more and more Mercedes and Lexus high-end owners to jump ship.
So the technology has existed, and has worked in production cars for at least 12 years. Not exactly new, bleeding edge technology.
Yes, the original 2002 LS430UL used lasers, which was dumb, and automatically turned off in the rain, but on the 2008 LS600hL, it works flawlessly. And the newer versions of these cars, as well as Mercedes excellent implementation of this technology shows that it's more than ready for primetime.
Plus, respectfully, who cares if it reduces range??? It has an on and off switch. If you're worried about range using it, turn it off.
I hesitated buying the Tesla because I felt that the lane departure warning system and adaptive cruise control should be mandatory in cars, and I felt like I was buying some of yesterday's technology with the car missing it. And I'm still not happy about that.
Those features need to be placed in the cars. And they need to make them able to be retrofit into the Model S. (Yes, I know sensors and displays will need to be added, and I'll have to pay more that way than if it was in the car I receive, but these features really are important safety features.)
The Mercedes S class and Lexus LS cars have been test beds for new technology for many, many years. Some of those features don't work their way into other cars, but most do. I could name a huge list of features I've had in those cars about a decade before I see these stupid commercials from Detroit talking about these "new" amazing features on their cars.
Tesla needs to get into that same mindset. Their premier sedan needs to be a test bed for new, state-of-the-art technology (I know it has some, but they need to turn the dial to 11.) If they do, they will get more and more Mercedes and Lexus high-end owners to jump ship.
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In your opinion. In my opinion those features are not essential. Tesla currently has nothing to gain by adding those features since the company is production constrained. They are selling cars faster than they can build them.
I am sure that next year those features will be available. But I have little interest in them.
My opinion.
I disagree. Elon has made it abundantly clear that Safety is at the top of his list. If such features are reasonably placed in or partially in the safety column, then they are worthwhile to add -- and provide retrofits for.
The way I read your statement, I would add "there isn't a direct financial reason" to do this -- and I'd agree in the short term. But Tesla is about far more than the bottom line.
My opinion.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
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callmesam
Member
These "features" are not fully baked. They do a single thing, and barely well enough.
These are hybrid features. Not full computer, not fully human controlled.
Google has it right. Full autonomy for the car, with optional manual controls.
Elon has now committed to full automation.
"Around this time last year, Musk was skeptical of this concept, telling the Financial Times, “My opinion is it’s a bridge too far to go to fully autonomous cars.” Now it appears the ultra-competitive entrepreneur, who is also CTO of SpaceX, is trying to outdo competitors like Google and Volvo who are also working on autonomous cars.
"I think in the long term, all Tesla cars will have auto-pilot capability," Musk said Monday.
This is in stark contrast to his position earlier which envisioned an "autopilot" feature which would engage during freeway driving.
Elon Musk: Tesla Cars Could Run On “Full Autopilot†In 5 Years | Fast Company | Business + Innovation
That being said, a package for existing cars is either in the works OR already designed.
I'm confident about backward compatibility since the Roadster 400 mile pack was just announced.
These are hybrid features. Not full computer, not fully human controlled.
Google has it right. Full autonomy for the car, with optional manual controls.
Elon has now committed to full automation.
"Around this time last year, Musk was skeptical of this concept, telling the Financial Times, “My opinion is it’s a bridge too far to go to fully autonomous cars.” Now it appears the ultra-competitive entrepreneur, who is also CTO of SpaceX, is trying to outdo competitors like Google and Volvo who are also working on autonomous cars.
"I think in the long term, all Tesla cars will have auto-pilot capability," Musk said Monday.
This is in stark contrast to his position earlier which envisioned an "autopilot" feature which would engage during freeway driving.
Elon Musk: Tesla Cars Could Run On “Full Autopilot†In 5 Years | Fast Company | Business + Innovation
That being said, a package for existing cars is either in the works OR already designed.
I'm confident about backward compatibility since the Roadster 400 mile pack was just announced.
I've got an Accord with ACC and love it. However, as far as efficiency goes, you have to remember that unless you're alone on the road, ACC will just pace the car in front of you so if they drive erratically, frequently speeding up and slowing down, so will you and there goes your efficiency.
There's a small delay/buffer in Honda's ACC acceleration to help negate the slow down/speed up rubber banding, but the system is way too inclined to abruptly hit the brakes (for safety, I assume) when it could have just coasted and closed the gap a bit without doing so.
I'm hoping Tesla software is better tuned and if not, the ability to tweak over time with OTA updates will be fantastic - sure beats taking my Honda into the dealer for software updates...
There's a small delay/buffer in Honda's ACC acceleration to help negate the slow down/speed up rubber banding, but the system is way too inclined to abruptly hit the brakes (for safety, I assume) when it could have just coasted and closed the gap a bit without doing so.
I'm hoping Tesla software is better tuned and if not, the ability to tweak over time with OTA updates will be fantastic - sure beats taking my Honda into the dealer for software updates...
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