Tesla Model X vs Lexus 450h

[07e92]

I switched over from Lexus to BMW, Mercedes as I prefer stiffer ride. Other than that, your observations are well matched mine.
X is less comfortable (bumpy) and nosier on the highway in comparing to my GL550.
all car manufactures now a days have semi-autopilot (i.e adaptive or laser guided cruise control), and is all i need. autonomous driving is not yet a mature technology, nor am I willing to pay extra in helping Tesla to mature its FSD technology.
most cars those days are all less maintenance, even with my BMW and Mercedes.
Service and reliabilities, Tesla is definitely behind. Yes, it has more frequent software update with additional improvements, but I somehow feel each upgrade is testing/piloting new features from previous releases. I am always afraid the latest upgrade will break something that was working previously, or even brick my X.
After all, having the X matches my original goals of getting a taste of EV and convenience of not having trips to gas station. And I am fortune to witness pros and cons of ICE and EV.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Another reason we bought x 3 years ago was the fact it will not roll. Most other suv will roll over during an emergency maneuver. I feel safer in our x verses our 450h.

 

[canbonbon]

Great discussion on this topic and I'm continuing to learn about Teslas through this thread.

It's been a week since I picked up RX 450h. I fell like I made the right choice. I will also buy an EV in the next couple of years. For me, it was not really about features; it was about overall experience. I'm a tech freak and went with latest and greatest tech most of the time. [My whole home is wireless connected home including appliances, doors, windows, security etc.]. When it came to cars, I guess I was expecting the best of my experience with Lexus minus negatives of ICE cars. My new car is 8th Lexus in 25 years. Performance (acceleration in particular) is not a key requirement for me. My Lexus GSF is sub 5s for 0-60 and is plenty good enough.

On experience, here are the key factors that were important for me:

1. In cabin experience:
a) Seat (drivers): Tesla seat seems stiff and narrow with seat sides applying pressure on my sides. [I'm 5' 7" 170 lbs]. Definitely uncomfortable for long rides.

b) Noise level in the car: Tesla's are in general more noisier than Lexus cars. I'm on phone calls or listening to high quality music when I'm driving. Compared to Model X is no match (highway driving) for RX 450h with 15-speaker Mark Levinson system. Of course, My LS with 19-speaker Mark Levinson sets a very high bar in this regard.

2. Driving
a) Ride quality: I was never a big fan of ride quality of most European cars and they all seem a bit stiff. While Model S seemed to ride quite well, Model X drove more like a truck.

b) Auto-pilot capabilities: I felt like Tesla over-sold this capabilities. While future looks promising, it's by no means a mature technology. [I'm been in high-tech industry for over 30 years and I now work in AI area and I'm quite familiar with sensor technologies such as Radar, cameras, LIDAR, etc. as well as training algorithm and realtime reaction systems, etc.). No question, this is the future. But, I'm afraid that Tesla seem to provide exaggerated confidence on some of these features. I do like the adaptive cruise control feature a lot. However, that's nothing new; I've had adaptive laser guided cruise control since 2003 Lexus LS!!! My 2020 RX 450h has the same capability (Radar instead of Laser). I do realize Tesla has auto steering to keep in lane as well. However during my test drive on somewhat curvy road, I needed to have my hands on the steering as recommended by Tesla. I'm excited about full self driving capabilities ($8K option). So may be in 2021!!

Servicing:
a) Maintenance: Yes, Tesla has revolutionized no-maintenance concept and is the biggest PLUS for it. However, for Lexus its not bad as compared to there ICE cars. My experience with Lexus is that I take to dealership every 30,000 miles for service and to a Jiffy Lube every 7,500 miles. Relatively low cost of ownership. In 25 years, I did not experience any failure or reason to take my cars to service.

In summary, I'm glad Tesla is providing much needed disruption to the industry and leading in several front nit just in EV tech but also on safety, performance and efficiency. I also appreciate the contributions from Tesla user community in contributing to make the cars better. In my search for a SUV, I also considered (and test drove) Audi (EV and ICE), Porche, Masaratti, Mercedes, BMW, Accura, and Lincoln. Finalists were Model X and Lexus (more of a safe choice for me). May be it will be 2021 Tesla Model X (preferably without winged rear doors!!!). I need to get out of consuming fossil fuel.

I get all your points, but I still don't understand why you went for 450h and not the regular RX? Do you really think paying that much extra for the hybrid will save you so much in gas costs? It would be great if you could give some details on if you did projections on how much gas you'd save by going hybrid and compared that to the cost of the car you just paid. Keeping in mind that one is future (potential) savings vs the other which is cash out of your pocket *now*. In addition, from what I have seen, Toyota Hybrid vehicles are very complex and local mechanics try not to touch them or ask for premium $. Case in point my sister in law had the Prius (she now has Model 3) where the repairs were much more money at the same local mechanic vs Toyota corolla or Camry. There were some sort of resets that they could not do well and she used to get errors all the time. The point is, either go electric or stay with regular gas engine if you want cost savings today. I have never understood why people buy Hybrid and how it helps them or the environment? But I am sure you must have done all those pros and cons and decided on getting a 450h. Congratulations on your new car. (I am a former Lexus RX300 owner from 1999 through 2002 , never went back to Lexus again because I could never justify why I was paying 20-25K more for basically a highlander).

 

[Sandiegodoug]

I n 2011, our awd rx 450 h was a great vehicle. Returned us 26 to 30mpg in town. No chains in snow conditions, 1 mile ev range in parking lots, very nice fit and finish. It’s just in 2017 I saw almost no improvement. So we bought the x. It was cutting edge, fun to drive and continue improvements. Still love the 450h, just love the x more.

 

[Rapp]

I get all your points, but I still don't understand why you went for 450h and not the regular RX? Do you really think paying that much extra for the hybrid will save you so much in gas costs? It would be great if you could give some details on if you did projections on how much gas you'd save by going hybrid and compared that to the cost of the car you just paid. Keeping in mind that one is future (potential) savings vs the other which is cash out of your pocket *now*. In addition, from what I have seen, Toyota Hybrid vehicles are very complex and local mechanics try not to touch them or ask for premium $. Case in point my sister in law had the Prius (she now has Model 3) where the repairs were much more money at the same local mechanic vs Toyota corolla or Camry. There were some sort of resets that they could not do well and she used to get errors all the time. The point is, either go electric or stay with regular gas engine if you want cost savings today. I have never understood why people buy Hybrid and how it helps them or the environment? But I am sure you must have done all those pros and cons and decided on getting a 450h. Congratulations on your new car. (I am a former Lexus RX300 owner from 1999 through 2002 , never went back to Lexus again because I could never justify why I was paying 20-25K more for basically a highlander).

Fair question. Hybrids used to be way more expensive ($7k - $10K) than regular cars. For this year (2020) models the price difference was about $1,100. And the hybrid gives 40% more mpg. I thought it was a no brainer! My RX 450h (fully loaded Mark Levinson, Luxury Package, etc.) came to $52,400 and with taxes, registration, etc. came to $60,200.

I have never owned a hybrid before.and appreciate your input on repair costs. I had not considered that. I keep my fingers crossed! Like I said, I do like Tesla's no maintenance aspect and that's a huge engineering accomplishment. I do hope they get better on manufacturing operations. Because I'll replacing my 2017 LS with a Tesla next year

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Our 2011 450h has had 1 repair, a leaky shock
which I didn’t have to replace. Been perfect.

 

[InternetDude]

Let me break it down for you:
Lexus = quality
Tesla = quantity

 

[nuP90D]

Fair question. Hybrids used to be way more expensive ($7k - $10K) than regular cars. For this year (2020) models the price difference was about $1,100. And the hybrid gives 40% more mpg. I thought it was a no brainer! My RX 450h (fully loaded Mark Levinson, Luxury Package, etc.) came to $52,400 and with taxes, registration, etc. came to $60,200.

I have never owned a hybrid before.and appreciate your input on repair costs. I had not considered that. I keep my fingers crossed! Like I said, I do like Tesla's no maintenance aspect and that's a huge engineering accomplishment. I do hope they get better on manufacturing operations. Because I'll replacing my 2017 LS with a Tesla next year

The hybrid is quieter and smoother. Good choice! Almost like a full EV, you don't hear the engine, not that the regular RX is loud or anything.

Keep your LS if you can afford it. Like some people, the first couple months of owning a Tesla is mostly visiting the service center. The build quality is a hit or miss. They don't usually offer a loaner, but they give you an Uber Voucher with $100 limit. If you are lucky to get a loaner, then it's most likely a beat-up S.

 

[E Dizzle]

I n 2011, our awd rx 450 h was a great vehicle. Returned us 26 to 30mpg in town. No chains in snow conditions, 1 mile ev range in parking lots, very nice fit and finish. It’s just in 2017 I saw almost no improvement. So we bought the x. It was cutting edge, fun to drive and continue improvements. Still love the 450h, just love the x more.

I agree. We still have our 2010 RX450h, but our 2016 XP90D is light years better. Not sure what everyone else is talking about, the Lexus is less comfortable seats/ride and isn't less noisier than the X. Its better they went with the hybrid over the gas version for emissions, but I think its foolish to spend $50,000 in 2020 on anything other than an EV. in the next 4 years it will be close to worthless having a gas or diesel vehicle. to each their own though.

 

[InternetDude]

...Keep your LS if you can afford it. Like some people, the first couple months of owning a Tesla is mostly visiting the service center. The build quality is a hit or miss...

First couple months? Try forever. My 2 year old S has seen 5 mobile tech visits since October, and I don't even have 10,000 miles on it yet. This is getting old, let me tell ya... this time it was charge port door, one headlight (dim DRL), and a broken steering wheel scroll button.

 

[njhtran]

I do like Tesla's no maintenance aspect and that's a huge engineering accomplishment.

No maintenance? I hadn't heard this before. Please tell

 

[Rapp]

No maintenance? I hadn't heard this before. Please tell

I believe Tesla does not have regular maintenance like oil change, engine maintenance, etc. Also, I understand even brakes and brake pads last several years (>5 years). Even the cabin air filter (HEPA) is rated for 4+ years. Overall, I thought that's pretty cool!

Of course, I'm not including repairs, etc. in my statement.

 

[Rapp]

I agree. We still have our 2010 RX450h, but our 2016 XP90D is light years better. Not sure what everyone else is talking about, the Lexus is less comfortable seats/ride and isn't less noisier than the X. Its better they went with the hybrid over the gas version for emissions, but I think its foolish to spend $50,000 in 2020 on anything other than an EV. in the next 4 years it will be close to worthless having a gas or diesel vehicle. to each their own though.

Tesla Model X road noise in db (with AC turned off)
Idle at the traffic light: ~60 dB
60 mph: ~75 dB
70 mph: ~80 dB
75 mph: ~82 dB

2020 Lexus RX 450h (with AC turned ON)
60 mph: ~ 60 db
75 mph: ~ 64 db
btw, 2020 RX 540h has CVT not 8-speed, that helps as well.

I disagree with "worth" in 4-years. EV's have less than 1% penetration in the market. I don't believe there in any brand that commands higher resale value than Lexus; market proven.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Our 2011 has a cvt. Loud when accelerating but quiet on freeway.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Problem is when choosing to drive a Lexus SUV, you are also choosing to burn about 5,000 gallons of heavy polluting gasoline to provide you with 100,000 miles of personal transportation.
Many Tesla owners would not be comfortable with that reality.

 

[Zorak03]

Lexus is old tech but great service and build quality. Tesla is new tech (the thing will come pick you up in a parking lot) but with horrible customer service by a petty company and Chinese budget style build quality.

 

[verygreen]

Problem is when choosing to drive a Lexus SUV, you are also choosing to burn about 5,000 gallons of heavy polluting gasoline to provide you with 100,000 miles of personal transportation.
Many Tesla owners would not be comfortable with that reality.

on the other hand when you choose to drive a heavy car like a Tesla model X you inflict much heavier damage on the roads (= dust, also pollution when needing more frequent road repair and whatnot: Chart of the Day: Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels ) AND the tire wear is also worse on the X. Both contribute significantly to PM2.5 pollutants.

 

[canbonbon]

Tesla Model X road noise in db (with AC turned off)
Idle at the traffic light: ~60 dB
60 mph: ~75 dB
70 mph: ~80 dB
75 mph: ~82 dB

2020 Lexus RX 450h (with AC turned ON)
60 mph: ~ 60 db
75 mph: ~ 64 db
btw, 2020 RX 540h has CVT not 8-speed, that helps as well.

I disagree with "worth" in 4-years. EV's have less than 1% penetration in the market. I don't believe there in any brand that commands higher resale value than Lexus; market proven.

While I agree that in 4 years it won't be worthless (EV adoption is not happening that fast) but it won't command the resale value it has today. If you look at the resale charts today and think you'd get the same value back, I really doubt it. Regulations are a big factor. Like in Europe, in 10 yrs they will stop making ICEs in some countries. So clearly that will have an impact on their resale values whether you believe that or not. I think in the US, California might also be inching towards something like that. So these types of regulations are acting as accelerants to the EV fire. Lets see how it plays out in next four years.
About those figures that you have posted above, did you measure the Lexus while "accelarating", "Constant speed" and "pedal off of accelerator"? Because the ICE engine makes three different noises in those conditions. Or did you average them out? Since you mentioned highway, I am assuming its the "Constant Speed" noise levels where the engine works enough to maintain the speed but does not accelerate. I do agree with you that Mode X's noise levels are quite high and I have observed them myself on a recent test drive. There was wind noise coming right above the door. So probably poor door seal. Plus there is a lot of glass in Teslas. Unless you use double pane glss, there is no way to isolate noise. But clearly, Teslas in general could use more sound damping without increasing the weight too much. I am sure that is on their priority list of improvements that want to bring in but at number 999999999999999999999. Also, when you say Model X had 60db when it was stopped at traffic light, I am assuming its outside traffic noise that you are capturing. Because when its stationary there is no sound. I mean how can there be any sound?

 

[07e92]

the lack of sound isolation materials also makes the X like a beatbox when playing music in the parking lot

 

[henderrj]

the lack of sound isolation materials also makes the X like a beatbox when playing music in the parking lot

true, but at least everybody in the neighborhood can enjoy your music with you!