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Tesla Pickup Truck

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Points well taken. However, I'm still not sure what AWDtsla is getting at. I can show you at least a 100 people in our small town that use their truck to haul things in the bed. They never tow anything.They never drive more than 100 miles in a day and get 12 mpg at 4 bucks a gallon. Their trucks are anywhere from 40-60k new.The Tesla truck would be ideal for these folks. Work trucks.

If you're wanting to tow the boat, or trailer to the lake 700 miles away without stopping to charge it wasn't ever gonna work.

Exactly. An electric pickup might not be an ideal recreation vehicle, but it would be a great work vehicle. If Tesla's prove (as we expect) to be reliable with low operating costs for years to come, they would definitely make sense in this market.

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This behavior is enforced when every time there is a big 3 pickup article written, they do 0-60 testing with 10,000 lbs trailers up 15% grades. Only after passing these incredible and unfeasible worst case test does the magazine then say this is the best pickup truck around. At that point selecting your truck is a bragging right so people can feel good about their purchase, when in actuality a Subaru Outback could have probably towed their boat just as safely.

Actually this is exactly the sort of test where an electric motor does best. The low end torque of electric motors is awesome.
 
Points well taken. However, I'm still not sure what AWDtsla is getting at. I can show you at least a 100 people in our small town that use their truck to haul things in the bed. They never tow anything.They never drive more than 100 miles in a day and get 12 mpg at 4 bucks a gallon. Their trucks are anywhere from 40-60k new.The Tesla truck would be ideal for these folks. Work trucks.

If you're wanting to tow the boat, or trailer to the lake 700 miles away without stopping to charge it wasn't ever gonna work.

My point was logic isn't going to convince people that didn't use logic in the first place. I'm saying that in my estimation there are more of these people that are pickup truck owners than any other category.

Perhaps it will have the same effect where someone smart buys the truck and their friends decide it's also a good idea.... or it's another Ford vs Chevy argument and the like. It's just going to much more uphill than a Model S.

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At that point selecting your truck is a bragging right so people can feel good about their purchase, when in actuality a Subaru Outback could have probably towed their boat just as safely.

Exactly. They didn't buy the outback. What would convince them to take yet another leap and buy a Tesla?

As an investor, unless a Tesla truck comes with some big corporate contracts, it should be far far into the future.
 
I would like a truck with the 85kwh battery and a 20 or 30kw Capstone microturbine for a range extender. I wonder if Elon includes these when he states that no Tesla will ever be powered by a gas engine? It is no "engine" in the traditional sense and it would only be a range extender ...

I've thought that idea for three years (I'm sure others have as well); it's clear that the charging-while-running would have to be completely supported by Tesla, so I never thought more about it - but a sleek trailer with microturbine extender would be awesome!

It's one of the reasons that the metal-air battery idea (vaporware?) also holds such merit - similar implementation, but no hydrocarbons burned (at least not primarily).
 
My point was logic isn't going to convince people that didn't use logic in the first place. I'm saying that in my estimation there are more of these people that are pickup truck owners than any other category.

Perhaps it will have the same effect where someone smart buys the truck and their friends decide it's also a good idea.... or it's another Ford vs Chevy argument and the like. It's just going to much more uphill than a Model S.

Now I get what you're trying to say but still disagree. The truck beds of the people I'm talking about are full every day. They NEED a truck. yet they never exceed the range of the Model S in one day. They spend ten times as much on fuel. I think a Tesla AWD truck would be ideal and they would see this. The fuel savings are extraordinary. These people understand the bottom line.
 
Now I get what you're trying to say but still disagree. The truck beds of the people I'm talking about are full every day. They NEED a truck. yet they never exceed the range of the Model S in one day. They spend ten times as much on fuel. I think a Tesla AWD truck would be ideal and they would see this. The fuel savings are extraordinary. These people understand the bottom line.

So honestly I would LOVE a small electric pickup as I don't need to tow 10,000 lbs and could easily live with say a ranger sized pickup. This sized pickup could very well fit the description above without issue. If Tesla's intention is to sell a very narrow segment of say compact pickup trucks for the autozones of the world to haul product 100 miles, they could come up with a cost effective solution but would have a hard time selling more than 20,000 units a year. If we are thinking 300,000 unit a year numbers you cant go for the compact narrowly focused market for the following reasons.

1. GM, Ford & Dodge/Ram got out of the compact pickup truck market for a reason (although they may be coming back). Now personally i think they ignored the segment and didn't update as much as they should, however these vehicles were not selling all that great relative to the full size truck lines.
2. The normal buyer of the compact pickup trucks are 20 something males who don't have a lot of money and retiree's (of course there are always exceptions) who also don't have a lot of money.
3. Corporate buyers (such as small delivery (autozone) or company's that need to get people and equipment) will look at the TCO over a specified period of time.

In the first case unless you can redefine the segment substantially, you may be looking at a niche product category. With number 2 or 3 you need to be able to get a product relatively cheap and be even or better in terms of TCO than an ICE version of the vehicle within 3-5 years. I am sorry but unless there is a battery breakthrough, an EV pickup truck is going to have a difficult time competing with a $20-25k compact pickup. Because the energy storage needs are large with such a big vehicle and the cost associated with that are equally large, I have a hard time believing that Tesla can easily pull off a marketable compact pickup truck without cutting range substantially.

The full sized truck market has a higher top end in terms of cost which can more closely close the gap in terms of TCO on an expensive battery. So if we have to target the full sized market we need a compelling reason to sell them a Tesla over the other competitors. That is difficult because laden range is going to be a major concern without available super fast charging. It is also difficult because of the current level of expectations around what a truck in that category is supposed to do. In order to push Tesla over Ford you need to break there preconceptions about what a truck is supposed to do in order to minimize the impact of limitations of the EV technology (mostly range, cold weather and charge times) and show the strengths (fast 0-60, super high torque, lower fuel bills).

Does that make sense?
 
Why do you imagine it would be a compact? It would need to be a full size pickup, not a compact, for the same reason the Model S is a full size car; you need room for the batteries. This would be a full size full power pickup, the range is the only issue.

As far as your points on the full size, it all comes down to range. This is exactly the same as the Model S. If you need range it doesn't make sense. However, not everybody does and if you don't it can be really compelling. The engine in a Model S is as powerful as a top of the line F-150
 
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It does make sense. However, here is something to consider; the Leaf is now in the $22k range and could easily be modified into a compact pickup. Yes it would lose range with a load, but it is not too far off from a compact truck really, is it?
I think the 7,500 tax break skews the numbers a bit. The leaf without the tax break is 30k which is roughly 10-12k more then the Versa for only a 75 mile EPA range in a small car. Now aside from my personal opinions around the thermal management around the leaf's I believe the figures I have seen state the leaf's battery is somewhere in the $350 per kwh. Most of the discussion around full size trucks require at a minimum of 120 kwh for decent Tesla unladen range. Using that same cost per kwh your talking 42,000 for just the battery alone. 42k is the cost of high end f150's. Now obviously there is a tax credit, but the credit covers a higher percentage of the cost on low end EV's then high end EV's. However by the time the Tesla comes out in 2020 or so, battery costs would come down.

Sorry wife called me and i didn't want to lose where i was at.... (added later)

So 42k for the base battery + we will say 35k for the electronics, motors and the rest of the truck for a grand total $77,000 (70k with tax credits) to compete with a $40,000 ICE pickup. Assuming electricity is 1/4 the cost of gas which is pretty typical until government figures out road taxes and it would take me 10-12 years to cover that cost differential. And yes there is a fairly big difference between a Versa/Leaf and a truck.
 
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I think the 7,500 tax break skews the numbers a bit. The leaf without the tax break is 30k which is roughly 10-12k more then the Versa for only a 75 mile EPA range in a small car. Now aside from my personal opinions around the thermal management around the leaf's I believe the figures I have seen state the leaf's battery is somewhere in the $350 per kwh. Most of the discussion around full size trucks require at a minimum of 120 kwh for decent Tesla unladen range. Using that same cost per kwh your talking 42,000 for just the battery alone. 42k is the cost of high end f150's. Now obviously there is a tax credit, but the credit covers a higher percentage of the cost on low end EV's then high end EV's. However by the time the Tesla comes out in 2020 or so, battery costs would come down.

Sorry wife called me and i didn't want to lose where i was at.... (added later)

So 42k for the base battery + we will say 35k for the electronics, motors and the rest of the truck for a grand total $77,000 (70k with tax credits) to compete with a $40,000 ICE pickup. Assuming electricity is 1/4 the cost of gas which is pretty typical until government figures out road taxes and it would take me 10-12 years to cover that cost differential. And yes there is a fairly big difference between a Versa/Leaf and a truck.
Okay, I hear you, and as a long time f-150 owner my thoughts are pretty aligned with yours on wants and needs in a truck. At this point it seems we all pretty much agree that the tech needed to produce a viable full size truck is just too far off at the moment. When elSupreme mentioned the power companies and electric trucks it immediately flashed visions of the little Smud, Pg&e and Roseville Electric, co. (our local power companies) compact trucks buzzing around town. This just seems a logical fit and a great a jumping off point for a pickup, though as you point out, it would be a small market, maybe 20,000 units a year, but hey, if it could be built on the gen III skateboard, maybe it would be worth a try. Anyway, even if they could build them, would it be the right move? This kind of bothers me and is a question for everyone; lets say Tesla did build a compact truck, would that take away from Tesla's cool factor?
 
If your willing to take a risk, you can usually come up with something cool and useful. If you let your shareholders and government make your decision you will always get a compromised item that is not good in any 1 direction, but adequately bad in every direction.
 
I can't get away from thinking about the usefulness of the kind of truck bandied about in this thread.

My wife's going to go bonkers...we already have more vehicles than a leopard has spots...but am not seeing any way of NOT getting a T-250 ;) when it becomes available....
 
If your willing to take a risk, you can usually come up with something cool and useful. If you let your shareholders and government make your decision you will always get a compromised item that is not good in any 1 direction, but adequately bad in every direction.

This isn't how Elon rolls.

I can't get away from thinking about the usefulness of the kind of truck bandied about in this thread.

My wife's going to go bonkers...we already have more vehicles than a leopard has spots...but am not seeing any way of NOT getting a T-250 ;) when it becomes available....

+1. I'm not attached to any outcome as far as size, timing price etc... But as soon as the T-250 (or 150) arrives in the driveway the '96 Dodge Ram is gone.
 
I can see the vehicle in my head, however my lack artistic skill means that that is where it stays. Picture if you will though kind of like a toyota tundra body, with with big sloped hood and muscular shoulders, then a more aggressive version of the "sadface" Model X nosecone, flanked by a variant of Tesla's now trademark headlights, although slightly swept back over the front fenders. Again, given the lack of styling constraints inherent in accomodating an ICE, the truck could actually look quite mean and aggressive!!

What's best is, particularly in 2WD models, there would be a tremendous amount of concealed storage in the frunk, which is a big limitation with ICE trucks. The nosecone could also raise with the hood, allowing easy access to the compartment for loading/unloading.

Oh well, on to daydreaming :)
 
I was spending last night attempting to envision the appropriate shape for a pickup that doesn't require the massive engine compartment. One of the shapes I came up with is reminiscent of the 1960s-era VW combos. Which I don't particularly like, as I, along with many, am uncomfortable with the exposed nature of a cab forward. Regardless, some variant of that could provide a magnificent combination of what one needs in a heavy hauler.

Dear Mr Musk: I promise never to use my T-truck as a snow plow. That's what the flatbed '98 F-250 will remain for, eight and a half months out of each year. I likewise promise never to use it as a tundra tour buggy. That's why we've the '80 BJ40 Land Cruiser. Nor to haul away a winter's worth of chicken p__p. That's what the skidsteer is for.
But other than just about that, it will be fair game..... :)
 
My only wish lists of a truck are:

2X4 city street model,
4x4 industrial/farming model that rides higher with longer travel suspension
box on chassis design so that chassis only models can be bought ( huge deal for industry )
Two be able to tow a airstream Bambi trailer from supercharger to supercharger.
F-150 size As they aren't super sized compared to others.

I wouldn't mind if they had fold down box sides like yesteryear.