Tesla Pickup Truck

[purplewalt]

Without a doubt. Out here in flyover country trucks are everywhere. They are "family cars." It's not "do you have a truck?" But rather "what kind of truck do you have?" Drive by any church out here on a Sunday morning and 80% of the vehicles are trucks.

I'm more excited about the truck than I was about the Model S. We have tons of contractors and tradesmen out here that never drive their trucks outside of the range of the Model S. They are constantly complaining about the price of fuel. Elon has hinted that the Tesla truck will crush any half ton currently on the market. I believe him and can't wait. I will reserve one the first day it's possible. Seriously.

If the big three are worried about Tesla at any level; they should be terrified of the Tesla pickup.

+1
Even in Urban Areas of Texas, there are an incredible number of Pick-ups.
THAT would be a huge market and market shifting vehicle if not THE Market-shifting vehicle.
Most traditional SUVs are on the same chassis and drivetrain as a pick-up, just a fully developed cab that seats 7 or 8.

ONE STEP -UP:
Think about in-town delivery vehicles, UPS or FedEx EVs.
With quick-charge stations, they could run all day long.
As could taxi-cabs/mini-vans, that have ALL the storage space one could need.

And then there are BUSES.
City buses, school buses, maybe more...

Once Supercharging stations are in-place around the country, they could be Cross-country buses.

IF you are going to Dream, Dream big.

 

[fjavifp]

Hi all,

I haven't read all the previous 16 pages of comments in this thread, still I'm sure someone has already mentioned that a TESLA pick-up truck makes all the sense for the US / North America market (Canada, Mexico...) where this type of vehicles are widely accepted (not so much in Europe although we are seeing a few lately), hence that it would not surprise me to see the 5th TESLA (Model S platform based) being a pick-up.
I also think that emerging markets like South American, Indian, Chinese... could also have good potential for pick-ups...

Regards,
Javier
@TeslaJive

 

[evme]

As could taxi-cabs/mini-vans, that have ALL the storage space one could need.

From what I understand, it is actually cheaper to use a 85kwh Tesla Model S(that costs 85k) as a Taxi then a gasoline car. Tesla should definitely market more to the taxi industry.

 

[jerry33]

From what I understand, it is actually cheaper to use a 85kwh Tesla Model S(that costs 85k) as a Taxi then a gasoline car. Tesla should definitely market more to the taxi industry.

The Model X will make a better taxi because the S is not easy to get in and out of for some folks. There are several threads on the subject.

 

[Starliner]

First post here, hello all.

I'd love a 3/4 ton EV pickup truck with 250 miles of range, or 150 range miles supported by a strategically placed QC network.

I'm self-employed and had been using a pickup truck as my only vehicle for years until last summer when I leased a Volt. The positives the Volt has done have been tangible and intangible - extended the life cycle of my truck via reducing its miles driven; slashed a major dent in my cash outlay for fuel; helped polish up my image especially when encountering prospective new clients, etc. Considering a large chunk of the miles driven with the Volt are business related, the tax deduction tied in with those miles is a positive factor as well.

To me, a truck is first and foremost a tool. It's main mission is to always be on call to deliver the goods without complaint. For me to go back to a one vehicle situation with an ET, range and recharging are the two biggest issues. And initial cost, of course. If Elon can solve all those, I'm in.

In fact, considering the top selling vehicles in America are pickup trucks, perhaps Elon ought to prioritize an affordable truck over an affordable family sedan.

 

[evme]

The Model X will make a better taxi because the S is not easy to get in and out of for some folks. There are several threads on the subject.

Not disagreeing here but the Model X is a bit away. Plus Musk can make minor modifications for the Taxi version of the Model S. Just saying that more focus should be put on this market as it can lead to a lot of bulk orders. Tesla can probably sell quite a few thousand per year. And it is much easier to convince businesses/cities based on costs savings the average people.

In fact, considering the top selling vehicles in America are pickup trucks, perhaps Elon ought to prioritize an affordable truck over an affordable family sedan.

Tesla is going to make an affordable sedan and SUV as part of the Gen III. Which should be much easier as they are pretty much shrunk versions of Model S and Model X.

While pick up trucks hold the #1, #2 and #7 spot. Sedans hold #3,#4,#5,#6,#8..

Then there is other problem, the audience. Unfortunately it is easier to sell an electric family sedan then a pickup truck based on the demographics. Musk said he plans to do a electric pickup truck,but the affordable sedan and suv should come first.

 

[jeff_adams]

Tesla is going to make an affordable sedan and SUV as part of the Gen III. Which should be much easier as they are pretty much shrunk versions of Model S and Model X.

While pick up trucks hold the #1, #2 and #7 spot. Sedans hold #3,#4,#5,#6,#8..

Then there is other problem, the audience. Unfortunately it is easier to sell an electric family sedan then a pickup truck based on the demographics. Musk said he plans to do a electric pickup truck,but the affordable sedan and suv should come first.

The truck would be MUCH harder to engineer. It has to handle well with a heavy load in back. It has to be able to tow. Heavy Duty suspension.

All that screams "big battery". Might even have to sandwich two batteries together. That would weigh a ton and be very expensive. I think it will be much longer before that tech is affordable.

 

[Palpatine]

I don't think Tesla could use aluminum for a truck. Wouldn't they have to use more steel in the frame to have the carrying load that is demanded by truck buyers?

Although, I just did a google search and found this...

http://business.time.com/2012/07/31/can-an-aluminum-truck-really-be-considered-ford-tough/

Among trucks, “steel long has been the gold standard,” in the words of industry publication Wards Auto. They don’t call Superman the “Man of Aluminum,” do they? Steel is simply deemed tougher, stronger, and more durable than aluminum. The monosyllabic word “steel” even sounds tougher than the highfalutin “aluminum.”

Nonetheless, as the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and others have reported, Ford hopes to sub in aluminum in the body of its F-150 truck to cut the vehicle’s weight by 700 pounds. The move actually increases Ford’s costs—aluminum is pricier than steel—but a significantly lighter truck body allows Ford to get by with a lighter engine. When all of the weight-reducing changes are factored in, the truck could see improvements in fuel economy up to 25%.

Better mileage is the bottom line here, as Ford and other automakers struggle to meet across-the-board new federal fuel economy standards that go into effect starting in 2016. Ford’s newly designed aluminum-heavy (or aluminum-light, as it were) truck is expected to hit the marketplace in 2014. For now at least, only the F-150 will be getting the aluminum makeover; Ford’s heavier-duty trucks, such as the F-250, are sticking with steel as they don’t fall under the same mileage standards.

 

[jerry33]

Among trucks, “steel long has been the gold standard,” in the words of industry publication Wards Auto. They don’t call Superman the “Man of Aluminum,” do they? Steel is simply deemed tougher, stronger, and more durable than aluminum. The monosyllabic word “steel” even sounds tougher than the highfalutin “aluminum.”

As long as you don't take into account steel's affinity for oxygen, the lower recyclability, and metal fatigue. Aluminium is a far superior material.

 

[evme]

I don't think Tesla could use aluminum for a truck. Wouldn't they have to use more steel in the frame to have the carrying load that is demanded by truck buyers?

Although, I just did a google search and found this...

http://business.time.com/2012/07/31/can-an-aluminum-truck-really-be-considered-ford-tough/

Musk actually commented to Ford doing this saying:

“From what I’ve heard, they’re using 7000-series aluminum, which is the right step. It’s very strong and light—it’s the same alloy we use to build rockets. There are many different alloys you can use, and a lot of manufacturers use 5000-series aluminum, but 7000 is twice as strong. It can’t be traditionally welded; it must be bonded or mechanically joined or friction welded.”

If its good enough for a rocket its probably good enough for a truck.

 

[constraint]

If you take the current f150 or 1500 crew cab pickups and do nothing special to them, you are looking at 50-55 kwh of energy use to take an empty pickup 100 miles (Rav 4 EV takes 42 and the Model S takes around 29). So lets double that for a 200 mile range to 110 kwh (empty). At the current battery selling price of $400 per kwh thats $44,000 just for the battery on a usable range (much less range when hauling a heavy trailer). No offense, but that is the MSRP of these trucks (and dealers are knocking $10,000 off MSRP on 2013 models).

Now obviously the cost of electricity in most part of the US is roughly 1/4 the cost of traveling that same mile on gas (assuming no road taxes). But in 7 years with 100,000 miles on my truck my gas bill is $27,000. Even if electricity was free that doesnt meet ROI nor would I accept 7 year return on investment for a vehicle. Battery prices must come down significantly (around $150 per kwh) to make a full sized pickup EV work for the main stream which means Tesla needs more time and focus on other ventures like the Gen 3.

Currently the only way an EV pickup works is for short routes with access to fast charging or drastically changing the definition of a pickup (Ford (australia) falcon UTE for instance).

 

[Kevin Harney]

Now obviously the cost of electricity in most part of the US is roughly 1/4 the cost of traveling that same mile on gas (assuming no road taxes). But in 7 years with 100,000 miles on my truck my gas bill is $27,000. Even if electricity was free that doesnt meet ROI nor would I accept 7 year return on investment for a vehicle. Battery prices must come down significantly (around $150 per kwh) to make a full sized pickup EV work for the main stream which means Tesla needs more time and focus on other ventures like the Gen 3.

Currently the only way an EV pickup works is for short routes with access to fast charging or drastically changing the definition of a pickup (Ford (australia) falcon UTE for instance).

1/4 the cost ?!?!??! It would cost me $4 to fill up a Model S and travel 250 miles. It would cost me $60 in gas to do the same miles and I am not driving a gas guzzling truck. How far can your truck go on $16 ?

EDIT : OK $9. so how far can you go with $36 in gas ?

- - - Updated - - -

I figure it is about 7 or 8 times so double all your numbers.

 

[constraint]

I am comparing an EV pickup to Gas pickup.

Lets compare a Model S for instance to a BMW 7 series.

265 miles = 85 kwh * 0.11 c/kwh = $9.35

according to edmunds the BMW 7 series gets 22 mpg combined

265/22 = 12 gallons * $3.50 per gallon (its 3.19 right now) = $42

Now i would say that is pretty close to 1/4 based on a rough estimation. Now the government has done some analysis and they are closer to 30% cost over gas http://energy.gov/articles/egallon-how-much-cheaper-it-drive-electricity. If you were to take the state/federal road tax from gas and convert that over to EV's on a per mile basis you are closer to 50%.

And btw... my truck is a gas hog... in the MN winter without using 4x4 i can go 57 miles on $16 bucks in gas (summer closer to 73). Granted we have 10 percent ethanol temps can stay -20F for a week straight in February, i have grabby tires and I am running a 5.4 v8.

 

[Kevin Harney]

I am comparing an EV pickup to Gas pickup.

Lets compare a Model S for instance to a BMW 7 series.

265 miles = 85 kwh * 0.11 c/kwh = $9.35

according to edmunds the BMW 7 series gets 22 mpg combined

265/22 = 12 gallons * $3.50 per gallon (its 3.19 right now) = $42

Now i would say that is pretty close to 1/4 based on a rough estimation. Now the government has done some analysis and they are closer to 30% cost over gas http://energy.gov/articles/egallon-how-much-cheaper-it-drive-electricity. If you were to take the state/federal road tax from gas and convert that over to EV's on a per mile basis you are closer to 50%.

And btw... my truck is a gas hog... in the MN winter without using 4x4 i can go 57 miles on $16 bucks in gas (summer closer to 73). Granted we have 10 percent ethanol temps can stay -20F for a week straight in February, i have grabby tires and I am running a 5.4 v8.

OK I will partially concede. Difference was here I am paying $4/gal and I was using a Ford F150 combined rating of 17 mpg. I say we settle in the middle for 6 times LOL :scared:

 

[constraint]

OK I will partially concede.

Success!!! wait... must be humble :redface:

 

[igotzzoom]

Currently the only way an EV pickup works is for short routes with access to fast charging or drastically changing the definition of a pickup (Ford (australia) falcon UTE for instance).

Teslamino! :smile:

 

[towman26]

I can't wait till Tesla has a full line of cars, trucks & everything in between

 

[gregincal]

If you take the current f150 or 1500 crew cab pickups and do nothing special to them, you are looking at 50-55 kwh of energy use to take an empty pickup 100 miles (Rav 4 EV takes 42 and the Model S takes around 29). So lets double that for a 200 mile range to 110 kwh (empty). At the current battery selling price of $400 per kwh thats $44,000 just for the battery on a usable range (much less range when hauling a heavy trailer). No offense, but that is the MSRP of these trucks (and dealers are knocking $10,000 off MSRP on 2013 models).

I definitely debate your 50-55kWh energy figure. Where do you get that from? The Model S has a more powerful engine than the base F-150 and similarly powered cars to the Model S get about 21 mpg. A base Ford F-150 gets a combined EPA of 19mpg and a similarly powered Mercedes S class gets a combined EPA of 21 mpg, so I would expect a similar difference between a Model S and a Tesla truck. As a matter of fact around town I don't see why it should take much more energy empty than the Model S. Freeway driving would be a different story but they would certainly try to make it as aerodynamic as possible.

 

[constraint]

When you are talking electric motors, the size of the motor does not determine energy usage like it does in an ICE. Regardless if i have a 100kw or 1000kw motor, if i am only needing 30kw to maintain my speed, that is my energy draw (30kw). If you were to floor the pedals, then yes the 1000 kw motor will use more energy, but that is not an acurate EPA comparison. In an ICE, the energy usage of a motor can vary greatly depending on varying factors. For instance why is it the Ford 3.7 gets much better mpg then the 6.2 when hauling the same pickup. Also i would consider the corvette stingray to have more power then most pickups, yet gets 30mpg on the highway. As a result your question as to the Model S having more power then an f150 is not an accurate comparison.

The model S was designed from the ground up to reduce air resistance whenever possible. As a result to try and compare the energy usage from a slippery low to the ground car to a full sized crew cab pickup is also extremely tough. Now granted in the example i provided of 50-55 kwh, i was assuming the current f150 design with crew cab. A new designed pickup from scratch that reduces weight and reduces air resistance can easily reduce the 50-55 kwh per 100 mile quoted usage that i provided. Now without changes I still believe that is an accurate ball park assessment.

Now around town driving a pickup is going to be heavier then the model S even if you discount the fact that a pickup is going to have a bigger (heavier) pack. In order to be tough enough to haul heavy loads or tow, the internal workings of the vehicle have to be able to support that weight. You will find that all trucks (half ton and above) currently use body on frame were most cars use a unibody. This is to support the heavy load forces that a truck must endure. All of this extra engineering effort requires weight and with more weight comes reduced efficiency.

Now how did I actually come up with 50-55 kwh per 100 miles in the current f150 crew cab model? So lets understand a few things first.
-The Tesla 60 kwh EPA range is 208 miles. As a result it is safe to assume that the lighter Model S ran do roughly 29 kwh/100 miles.
-The Toyota Rav 4 which is a small SUV that has been slightly modified to reduce air resistance clocks in around 42 kwh/100 miles. So already with just a small relatively light SUV we can already see a big difference in energy usage from the S (and yes the motors are smaller on the Rav 4 then the S).
-The Via VTRUX which is the only full sized pickup that I can find that have any numbers (which have not been EPA verified) claims according to Bob Lutz of 40 miles range with 24kwh pack (27kwh as quoted on pug in america). I would consider this statement weak because is it exactly 40 miles? Is it 24kwh usable pack or is that the total pack size and only 80 percent is usable? Assuming those numbers are accurate 24/40*100 = 60 kwh/100 miles.

I will admit that 50-55 is a guess, but I believe it is an educated guess until i can see some actual figures. We know that a pickup is going to have a significantly higher drag cd then a Toyota Rav 4. I would highly doubt that a full sized crew cab pickup would be anywhere close to the 42 kwh/100 mile figure. While reducing weight, changing the design can reduce energy usage, in the current state i think 50-55 kwh is a ballpark (possibly conservative) guess without seeing actual verified data.

 

[qwk]

?.. (and yes the motors are smaller on the Rav 4 then the S).

the Rav4 EV uses the same motor as a Model S.