Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” [range] projections

Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

Interesting.

TL;DR

1. Above 50% SOC the cars over state range, and under 50% they become more realistic.

2. Tesla had or has a team in Nevada and now moved to Utah solely dedicated to cancelling Service requests for range complaints, as they are deluged with them.

3. EPA ratings: Tesla aggressively uses all options to get the most rosy estimates (we knew that)

4. No comment from Tesla or any mfg on range for the story, some old comments.

So this feels about the same as almost every ICE car I've owned. The fuel gauge drops slower for the first 2/3 of a tank, then drops quicker at the end.

"Supercharging-Batterieanzeige auf dem Display, während der Elektroauto-Ladung an einer Tesla Supercharger Ladestation" by verchmarco is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[OxBrew]

This is actually a very interesting remark!

I read a story about why that was. The conclusion was most gas tanks got narrower 2/3 the way down, but the float for the gauge was linear, uncorrected, so it fell faster when it hit the narrow part. I thought that was bollocks, should be easy to calibrate the float. And really? All cars need their tanks to be made narrower at the bottom to fit somehow? Just seems arbitrary and rediculous.

So yeah, all cars have quirks you have to learn about.

 

[gtae07]

I read a story about why that was. The conclusion was most gas tanks got narrower 2/3 the way down, but the float for the gauge was linear, uncorrected, so it fell faster when it hit the narrow part. I thought that was bollocks, should be easy to calibrate the float. And really? All cars need their tanks to be made narrower at the bottom to fit somehow? Just seems arbitrary and rediculous.

So yeah, all cars have quirks you have to learn about.

I always figured the floats were on an arm connected to a potentiometer, and swung down from level (or slightly above level) at full, to something close to vertical at empty, and the the gauge was just a direct correlation to angle.

I remember driving my sister's old Focus home when I bought it off of her; it showed 100 miles to empty at the 50 to go mark. By the time I rolled into the driveway it showed 10 miles remaining and the gas light was on. I haven't had trouble with the Tesla so far but this is why I don't really want to get into the single digit percentages like the trip planner wants (and also, its assumption that I'm done driving for the day when I arrive and can charge on site).

As an engineer I don't have trouble understanding the technicalities behind how the car works and its quirks (heck, I seek that stuff out), but I can understand how most people could get confused.

 

[DuncanM]

IMO it seems to be getting worse with newer models. In our 2012 and 2018 MS we could regularly get rated range. I cannot get rated range in my 2022 MXP and I drive the same (I have only done 3 full power accelerations in the 15 months I've owned it). I think it's because Tesla actually shrank the battery in the Refresh S/X (no longer 100kWh) and claimed higher efficiency to get the range numbers but I am always woefully below where I should be.

Car and Driver does a real 75mph range test and the results are what you would expect. Tesla radically overstates range (MSLR only went 320 with 402 rated, M3LR only went 240 with 310 rated) while the Germans actually understate range (Taycan went 280 with 225 rated) with other manufacturers closer to their rated. Chart here:

EV Range: Everything You Need to Know

We explain EPA ratings, factors that affect range, how EVs have performed in our testing, and why it's all very complicated.

www.caranddriver.com

The MX has poorer aerodynamics than the MS and will lose range faster at higher speeds.

My M3 RWD gets the EPA combined range when it's driven at a steady 60-65 mph; I know because I've tested it during ~250 mile drives in rural NM where I can cruise at steady speeds. Above ~65mph the range will decline to less than the EPA combined rating and at a steady 84mph it will fall to ~160 miles with 10% remaining SOC showing.

There's been a variety of competitive documented range tests done online and presented on YT. Typically Tesla's will get their EPA range at ~65mph and range will decline at speeds above that. Teslas have very streamlined bodies and have very efficient drivetrains and typically will always be more efficient in range/kwh than comparable cars at any speed. However, at speeds lower than ~60mph comparable cars, such as the Mach-e and Kona/E-Niro will often get better range because they have larger HVB packs than a comparable Tesla and at lower speeds their poor aerodynamics are no longer a critical factor. Amazingly, when all these factors, including charging speeds. are taken into account a typical Tesla will be able to drive 600 miles or more in less time than any other comparable EV...

 

[ZenRockGarden]

The MX has poorer aerodynamics than the MS and will lose range faster at higher speeds.

My M3 RWD gets the EPA combined range when it's driven at a steady 60-65 mph; I know because I've tested it during ~250 mile drives in rural NM where I can cruise at steady speeds. Above ~65mph the range will decline to less than the EPA combined rating and at a steady 84mph it will fall to ~160 miles with 10% remaining SOC showing.

There's been a variety of competitive documented range tests done online and presented on YT. Typically Tesla's will get their EPA range at ~65mph and range will decline at speeds above that. Teslas have very streamlined bodies and have very efficient drivetrains and typically will always be more efficient in range/kwh than comparable cars at any speed. However, at speeds lower than ~60mph comparable cars, such as the Mach-e and Kona/E-Niro will often get better range because they have larger HVB packs than a comparable Tesla and at lower speeds their poor aerodynamics are no longer a critical factor. Amazingly, when all these factors, including charging speeds. are taken into account a typical Tesla will be able to drive 600 miles or more in less time than any other comparable EV...

I think this is a good point.

Teslas are getting their range from being super efficient. Many competing cars just use a bigger battery pack.

Using the two cars in an inefficient way (high speeds, heavy use of AC, etc) will have a greater impact on the Tesla.

 

[EatsShoots]

I’m not excusing Tesla but I went in eyes wide open on ours. Our Nissan leaf (2012 and 2020) range estimates were laughable —winter range in particular was despicable. Even mid drive in winter it would never drop the range as much as it should have; tell you 30 miles left when you absolutely had more like 15.

 

[Unclepaul]

Seems like most everybody could be aware of this by simply Googling "EV real world range".
No big secret.

I suspect this article is being promoted by people wanting to continue to profit from ICE cars.

 

[chucktrout]

If EPA tests are unrealistic, then all manufacturers range estimates should be equally off, but that's not the case. German car estimates are accurate.

So, why are Tesla's range estimates so bad compared to other makes?

because tesla followed epa criteria for testing and the germans didnt

 

[chucktrout]

Interesting take. Kind of like it...
How does the miles left react when you have entered waypoints in the nav?

tesla follows,epa rules; germans cheated on emission testing audi/volkswagon.

 

[hmadsen]

Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

Interesting.

TL;DR

1. Above 50% SOC the cars over state range, and under 50% they become more realistic.

2. Tesla had or has a team in Nevada and now moved to Utah solely dedicated to cancelling Service requests for range complaints, as they are deluged with them.

3. EPA ratings: Tesla aggressively uses all options to get the most rosy estimates (we knew that)

4. No comment from Tesla or any mfg on range for the story, some old comments.

So this feels about the same as almost every ICE car I've owned. The fuel gauge drops slower for the first 2/3 of a tank, then drops quicker at the end.

View attachment 960468
"Supercharging-Batterieanzeige auf dem Display, während der Elektroauto-Ladung an einer Tesla Supercharger Ladestation" by verchmarco is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

To be fair i think the percentage gauge in my MY LR is pretty ok, i am able to drive the same amount of miles on the charge from 100 - 70 as i am from 50 - 20 from my experience.

The previous EV i owned, a cheap chinese (Not so cheap now Tesla slashed prices though) was very different.

From 100 - 50 did not go very far, but from 50-10 was a lot faster.

I would say that if i drove it from 100-20 (Under 20, it would constantly, audibly nag to "Recharge as soon as possible), when i got to 60% (Half of what i used) i would have traveled 60% of the possible distance, and from 60-20 i would travel 40%

When it dipped below 50 a kilowatt did not move me nearly as long of a distance as a kilowatt above 50%

 

[GBMaryland]

I actually find the range prediction in the car to be pretty much dead on. In fact, sometimes I think it’s too conservative, and I end up beating it. Humph.

I didn’t get about another 30 miles out of the car using 20 inch wheels on my MYP… and the car’s range is about 330 miles.

I will say it absolutely does not adjust the range based on cold weather… and when you get cold weather, the range goes down precipitously.

 

[brkaus]

The data is one thing. That they are purportedly acting like ass hats and the corporate culture might support it is another.

 

[SacOfTomatoes]

After reading this thread I am amazed at the “sunk cost fallacy” going on and the glossing over the secret team of Tesla employees suppressing range related complaints.

I owned a Chevy Bolt that I sold due to the recall and it’s guess-o-meter was pretty accurate on range. My 2022M3 long range is disappointing in its actual range. Had I know it was this inaccurate I would have bought a different EV. What Tesla has been hat other EV manufactures do not have is the charging infrastructure.

Watching what is happening with elon doing to Twitter I am not surprised by Tesla having a suppression team to squash complaints about range.

 

[zoomer0056]

Twitter

X

 

[DuncanM]

After reading this thread I am amazed at the “sunk cost fallacy” going on and the glossing over the secret team of Tesla employees suppressing range related complaints.

I owned a Chevy Bolt that I sold due to the recall and it’s guess-o-meter was pretty accurate on range. My 2022M3 long range is disappointing in its actual range. Had I know it was this inaccurate I would have bought a different EV. What Tesla has been hat other EV manufactures do not have is the charging infrastructure.

Watching what is happening with elon doing to Twitter I am not surprised by Tesla having a suppression team to squash complaints about range.

I think we'd all be POed if we couldn't get SC appointments because the SCs were filled up with people making erroneous complaints about their car's range.

In what way is the actual range disappointing? What is inaccurate? As we've discussed the GOM on a Tesla is the Nav's predicted SOC upon arrival at your destination along with the energy consumption display.

Yeah, Elon shouldn't be making purchase decisions or tweeting when he's stoned...

 

[Mullermn]

I have always found the range predictions in my car to be eerily accurate.

I genuinely can’t relate to what people could be complaining about unless it’s that the real world range isn’t as good as the advertised figure, but that’s the case for literally every vehicle

 

[LostVector]

It does feel like the article is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. All ranges are estimates and guesses. The percentage indicator is perhaps a bit more intuitive in forcing the responsibility for range estimation onto the user ... but how much better is that?

It's not clear to me if the article is referring to the miles of range indicator on the dashboard or something else, but I've always thought of that number as EPA miles, not what's actually going to happen in the real world. The car takes into account everything when you plan a trip, as far as I can tell?

 

[DuncanM]

 

[Olle]

Somebody who knows what they are talking about

 

[OxBrew]

It does feel like the article is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. All ranges are estimates and guesses. The percentage indicator is perhaps a bit more intuitive in forcing the responsibility for range estimation onto the user ... but how much better is that?

It's not clear to me if the article is referring to the miles of range indicator on the dashboard or something else, but I've always thought of that number as EPA miles, not what's actually going to happen in the real world. The car takes into account everything when you plan a trip, as far as I can tell?

Correct. Our Y will go the EPA rated range on a full charge at 60mph, 70° on flat ground with no wind. I've tested it, watching the kw/mi readings. Then I got bored after 5 miles and drove like a normal person.

The "fraud" is apparently adding a 5% buffer at 50% SOC and lower.

The "secret team" seems to me to be in response to a large number of owners not understanding how range estimation works. Drive like grandma on flat ground, and you get what you paid for.

Or Navigate to your destination, and it's accurate to within 3% to the next stop.

(after it learns your new tires, took me a few hundred miles to re calibrate to my new all seasons after the factory summer tires).

 

[HitchHiker71]

I believe the EPA specifically allows the range/mpg to be reduced by the manufacturers, if requested.

IMHO the EPA should revise their eMPG ratings to provide the same range estimates for ICE vehicles - city/highway/mixed eMPG estimates - with three distinct range estimates based upon the type of driving in scope. Granted, this would likely increase range anxiety as the highway ranges would drop significantly - but IMHO it's better to be transparent about real world range estimates so consumers can make more educated decisions when it comes to BEV purchases/adoption.