Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Unpilot]

Bitcoin....Tesla....renewable energy....change is hard.

But absolutely necessary.

 

[lascavarian]

Quantum computing is just around the corner. For every problem there is an answer given some time.

Perhaps this is meant to be /s.

And it will take an infinite number of very expensive quantum computers to calculate the blockchain for an infinite number of ever more demanding transactions. There is no end to the problem of computation IMO. There is work to be done to make this workable. It is like developing an EV before there is an adequate battery. The battery must precede the successful EV. It will be interesting to see how EM works out a solution if there is one beyond a simple store of value as I see it. Perhaps Elon sees a future where computation is converted into energy as a store of value/goods.

Still I would rather EM work this out than me so I am ok with a limited use of bitcoins to see where it goes.

 

[thx1139]

I know this is not related to this thread but with the Bitcoin thing so prevalent there seems to be some knowledge here that can enlighten me.

I can not figure out how this whole Bitcoin thing works. The explanations online just confuse me more. How does this stuff work? Some argue that it is a threat to the environment. How? I am completely at a loss for how this move by Tesla is either positive or negative...other than I guess you will be able to buy a Tesla with the stuff.

Dan

I dont know how you can take Bitcoin for payment. I mean could you clearly have a price on the website in Bitcoin. It isnt stable. So lets say a $50K price was converted to list as Bitcoin with Bitcoin at prices before Tesla disclosure.

It was like 1 bitcoin cost $39,250 before disclosure

That would mean the $50K price would be listed as like 1.28 bitcoin

Well now that $50K price would be listed as like 1.14 bitcoin.

Such rapid change for currency is not good for pricing.

 

[SO16]

Gary black bailed out of TSLA.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1358795340862873602

 

[Artful Dodger]

Plot twist: Tesla gets into bitcoin mining powered by massive solar and megapacks, and it becomes their most profitable LOB.

Well, Elon DID tell us during the 2018 AGM that Tesla may get into mining...

Cheers!

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Gary black bailed out of TSLA.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1358795340862873602

That guy has been all over the place and I for one will be glad to see him not associated with tsla anymore. He talks with a lot of confidence for someone that was wrong on tsla stock moves repeatedly. Yes he got a couple right......he's at 50% accuracy at best though....so pretty average

 

[StealthP3D]

Many people that aren’t from harsh winter climates make this mistake. It isn’t that water that obscures the cameras. It’s the slush/dirt mix that gets caked onto them. Sometimes you literally have to hold down the washer fluid button to be able to see out of your windshield. A heater will not do anything. Unfortunately, I’ve tried hydrophobic sprays on my windshield/cameras and they don’t work well.

1) Heaters sufficient to allow operation in harsh winter climates will be used in harsh winter climates. Not all cars will be equipped the same.
2) The best hydrophobic sprays are not clear and cannot be applied to your windshield. Heaters and de-icers will be used. Airplanes are operated in harsh winter weather and the pilot cannot get out and clear the windshield or the sensors.
3) I've lived in Northern Montana through one winter, Syracuse, NY through two winters and have been a lifelong snow skier spending plenty of time in winter mountain storms. I'm not going to list all my credentials here but I am quite experienced driving in harsh winter weather. This will not prevent robo-taxis from being outfitted to operate in harsh winter weather.

Driving in winter weather has always provided challenges to be solved and these challenges will not prevent the transition to autonomous driving. Such conditions are a very small part of all driving and will be dealt with as needed (as always). Those who argue the challenges are unsurmountable roadblocks or are somehow fertile discussion on a Tesla investor's forum lose my respect.

 

[Johan]

I dont know how you can take Bitcoin for payment. I mean could you clearly have a price on the website in Bitcoin. It isnt stable. So lets say a $50K price was converted to list as Bitcoin with Bitcoin at prices before Tesla disclosure.

It was like 1 bitcoin cost $39,250 before disclosure

That would mean the $50K price would be listed as like 1.28 bitcoin

Well now that $50K price would be listed as like 1.14 bitcoin.

Such rapid change for currency is not good for pricing.

Yes, of course they will have to have a pricing in $$$ and a pricing in BTC. They would of course be free to (often) adjust their pricing in BTC if they want it to follow the USD/BTC exchange rate at any given time. But you have to remember that the purpose of BTC is a currency that stands on its own feet. So in fact, Tesla actually accepting BTC as payment for something that is at the same time possible to buy with $$$ in the same market, and a very pricy item such as a car at that, could in fact be a very important signal for the value of BTC as compared to USD at any given time. We've probably all heard of the "Big Mac index". What about the "1 model S exchange rate"?

 

[Pezpunk]

I can not figure out how this whole Bitcoin thing works. The explanations online just confuse me more. How does this stuff work? Some argue that it is a threat to the environment. How? I am completely at a loss for how this move by Tesla is either positive or negative...other than I guess you will be able to buy a Tesla with the stuff.

Dan

i sympathize. One of the reasons i got into crypto mining was because the online explanations kind of made my head spin and i needed to dig into it hands-on to really answer my own questions about it. In the very simplest terms, computers chunk away performing billions of calculations to (sort of) generate new valid coins. these calculations ALSO maintain the blockchain (which is the ledger of transactions). it's all distributed and non-centralized, and depends on calculations that are by design extremely energy-intensive. the amount of energy consumed to mine new coins and maintain the blockchain ledger is enormous. this is what people are talking about when they say it's bad for the environment. the calculations are so energy intensive, in fact, that you will be losing money purely on electricity costs in most cases.

 

[canoemore]

Gary black bailed out of TSLA.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1358795340862873602

Ha! He spent the last 2 months crowing about a $1000 6-12 month price target!

 

[SO16]

Ha! He spent the last 2 months crowing about a $1000 6-12 month price target!

He said it again about 6 hours ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1358707371242094594

 

[Unpilot]

i sympathize. One of the reasons i got into crypto mining was because the online explanations kind of made my head spin and i needed to dig into it hands-on to really answer my own questions about it. In the very simplest terms, computers chunk away performing billions of calculations to (sort of) generate new valid coins. these calculations ALSO maintain the blockchain (which is the ledger of transactions). it's all distributed and non-centralized, and depends on calculations that are by design extremely energy-intensive. the amount of energy consumed to mine new coins and maintain the blockchain ledger is enormous. this is what people are talking about when they say it's bad for the environment. the calculations are so energy intensive, in fact, that you will be losing money purely on electricity costs in most cases.

Plus you can't get a high end GPU because all the miners get them first.

#ripgaming

 

[Chunky Jr.]

I guess it's better that they put the $1.5B into BTC instead of GME

 

[Singuy]

Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index - Digiconomist

For people wondering about btc energy usage. Is that per transaction energy usage correct? Kind of crazy if it's true.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

For those concerned about Bitcoin energy usage, bear in mind:

Bitcoin mining treats all energy at fungible. It will use whatever energy is cheapest, so it is up to the rest of us to ensure that the cheapest energy is clean.

In many cases the cheapest energy is energy that would otherwise be wasted. Some miners use natural gas that would otherwise be flared, reducing the overall carbon footprint.

You are literally not allowed to take this stance on TMC. All energy can be stored quite easily. Using tons and tons of energy for an endeavor that can easily be replaced with something more efficient is stupid. AFAIK, you can still maintain all the most important attributed of a cryptocurrency without wasting all this energy.

 

[Rarity]

Technically (with consent) Tesla could mine some type of Crypto on the internal processors. They could keep it all, or pay out a share, but it would be wasteful. Modern mining rigs are purpose built and on a hash rate basis, very efficient. But as a seldomly used feature, Tesla could make the computers purposefully suck up excess power during the rare times when electricity has a negative or zero cost, assuming all batteries that could be charged are full. Tesla could make money doing this, and it could become a part of AutoBidder.

Yes, this is all plausible, but @heltok says the FSD computer is unsuitable. Perhaps v2 will have useful extensions?

In any event, I question more the possibility that electricity available to consumers will be very cheap, including transportation costs. For instance, what do consumers pay (including distribution) when they buy "free" electricity in Texas from the wind farms? What do those in the Pacific NW pay (including distribution) when they buy electricity from the dams?

 

[Pezpunk]

Genuine question: how much energy does traditional finance infrastructure consume? Not a question directed solely at you, @Pezpunk, but it does seem like a relevant one to ask in this discussion.

it's estimated that roughly half of the world's datacenter energy usage is consumed by crypto. The amount of energy consumed is really pretty wild. The power consumed by, say, a branch bank simply does not remotely compare.

Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index - Digiconomist

 

[thx1139]

Yes, of course they will have to have a pricing in $$$ and a pricing in BTC. They would of course be free to (often) adjust their pricing in BTC if they want it to follow the USD/BTC exchange rate at any given time. But you have to remember that the purpose of BTC is a currency that stands on its own feet. So in fact, Tesla actually accepting BTC as payment for something that is at the same time possible to buy with $$$ in the same market, and a very pricy item such as a car at that, could in fact be a very important signal for the value of BTC as compared to USD at any given time. We've probably all heard of the "Big Mac index". What about the "1 model S exchange rate"?

That doesnt solve the volatility a currency has to be fairly stable. Its great when you sell something and bitcoin is at a low point then it rises after you get the bitcoin from the buyer. Would suck if a lowpoint came after you were paid by the buyer.

 

[UncaNed]

...we are seeing the roaring 20’s ramping up.

Oh Boy! I hope it all goes as well as the last roaring 20's!! I can hardly wait!!

Also we're promoting Bitcoin NOW. The renewable supergrid will be in the future, so until then... how's Bitcoin supporting the mission?

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Did someone mention June 2023 options opening? I don't see them available on Fidelity.