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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Would you be able to take a look at this thread, about reverse gamma squeeze, and share your comments?

My limited knowledge seems to say the points mentioned don’t actually point to any such dangerous setup for the stock.

I am not clear about this

@FrankSG ?

That was an interesting thread. Thanks for pointing to what's out there in the twittterverse. There is some decent info mixed up with a good amount of BS. The BS piece is mainly about passive funds selling when price goes down. And no, that doesn't happen. At least until the index committees changes weights in the index. Even when they do, it will be slight tweaking around the edges that gets lost in the noise.

The interesting piece (more clear in the second link) is the flip in skew in the last 2 weeks. It went from expensive calls to expensive puts in a 2 week time frame from right after earnings to now. Obviously the expectations were elevated going into earnings from higher gross margins, higher contribution margin, etc., given the record deliveries. No wonder call skew was high around earnings. Put skew being steeper is actually the natural order of things and in my view we just mean reverted there. So it looks like knowingly or unknowingly (;)) these folks have picked data points that tell a grim picture, while we might be just going back to a period of sideways action from a face ripping rally in Q4 thru early Jan.

I would say though, particularly with Tesla, gamma can cause both sharp upwards and downwards moves. That has been the case for a long time. The move this time can be sharply downward. But claiming that the current setup necessarily portends one is evidence free.

On a side note, those claiming Q4 margins were bad are missing what @st_lopes pointed from the 10-K around margins severely impacted by SBC which jumped due to a booming stock price. This should normalize in Q1 and longer term set us up for the margin expansion story to play out. Will see where these arguments go then.

tldr: the options market was very bullishly positioned in January and its becoming more normal. if you compare the 2, it looks like massive flip to a bearish view, but the market is just getting back to normal.
 
I can forgive Kimbal for selling some of his shares, afterall he still has a ton left, and, he may have plans of his own, for the good of the world. But I have to say, one board member (Antonio Gracias) selling pretty much his entire position is not looking good. Not a vote of confidence from a board member.

Here are the Gracias’s trades:

• Acquired: 97,000 shares at $52.38

• Acquired: 53,747 shares at $68.56

• Sold: 1,930 shares at $842.596 (weighted average)

• Sold: 13,256 shares at $843.51

• Sold: 22,036 shares at $844.372

• Sold: 22,122 shares at $845.364

• Sold: 19,320 shares at $846.381

• Sold: 19,039 shares at $847.36

• Sold: 34,023 shares at $848.404

• Sold: 18,588 shares at $849.32

• Sold: 433 shares at $850.346

After the trade, Gracias owned 2,545 common Tesla shares.
 
I lost all respect for him when he started claiming we missed delivery guidance of 500K.

Garry is trying to be clever. He sold everything in the mid-800s and he's looking to buy it all back at a lower price. Hence why he was Tesla's biggest bull before he sold and now he is Tesla's biggest bear

Fair enough, but its a waste of time trying to find some truth among his statements
 
I lost all respect for him when he started claiming we missed delivery guidance of 500K.

He sure seems to be doing his best to convince me that he is just another force being applied by the bigger Institutional Investors that are trying to hold the price down until they have acquired their post-S&P500 inclusion shares.

@Artful Dodger - can you please give an update on your opinion of how many shares the Big Boats still need to buy before they let TSLA leave the dock? I followed your S&P500 inclusion comments regarding such Institutional buying with great interest
 
I can forgive Kimbal for selling some of his shares, afterall he still has a ton left, and, he may have plans of his own, for the good of the world. But I have to say, one board member (Antonio Gracias) selling pretty much his entire position is not looking good. Not a vote of confidence from a board member.
[...]

Musk’s Younger Brother Sells $25.6 Million of Tesla Shares

Board member Antonio Gracias meanwhile sold 150,747 Tesla shares, leaving him with a direct holding of 2,545. However, he replaced these with new long positions via long-dated call options, also known as Long-term Equity Anticipation Securities, or LEAPs. Gracias bought about 150,000 call options expiring in June 2022 and 2025 with exercise prices of $52.38 and $68.56. He also indirectly owns 1.3 million Tesla shares through AJG Growth Fund.
What's does that mean?
 
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Screen Shot 2021-02-12 at 7.31.09 AM.png


here are three tech stocks from the past week. Which one is TSLA? Whatever price action we're seeing in TSLA, it isn't unique.

TSLA is the middle one, BTW. Top one is AMZN, bottom one is AAPL

edit : I don't know how to do the Spoiler section thing...
 
Gary Black seems to have gone completely bipolar on TSLA just prior to the Biden infrastructure announcement he previously claimed was going to be TSLA's huge catalyst...................and he is now going 'Full Gordy' on TSLA this morning in what appears to be an effort to try to bring it into the mid-700's in my opinion

*Near term risk/reward not compelling?
*Better opportunities elsewhere?
*A very different $7,500 EV tax plan coming?
*TSLA getting hurt in EU because no M-Y CUV yet?
*TSLA went up 743% last year because Market thought TSLA's rates would accelerate, but now it has only matched its 2020 guidance of 500,000?
* "I still think TSLA is undervalued. But I think the stock can drop to the mid-700's as investors reset expectations about 1H, given obvious headwinds" ?
* Blah, blah, blah

Like the FUD from Lora, and Dana, and Gordy, I don't think this will age well, and I am very curious how the timing of this complete flip flop will reveal itself when we look back on TSLA's chart at the end of this year. Thoughts on this @SteveG3 & @EinSV ?

View attachment 636106
Hmm, can't imagine why he would do that when he said he is looking to buy back in at some point. /s
 
I have a "play" account I use for day/swing trading just for the personal challenge of it, and while I haven't held TSLA with that account I went and bought 19 shares @ $790 this morning. Hard to resist at these prices, and next weeks green plan from Biden will likely spike the SP at least a bit.

If the stock dips then I'll just hold those 19 shares until we break above 900 later this year. Tesla has too much momentum and catalysts going for it now, I'm confident it will break out at some point. And I continue to just HOLD my long term TSLA in my other accounts.
 
Would you be able to take a look at this thread, about reverse gamma squeeze, and share your comments?

My limited knowledge seems to say the points mentioned don’t actually point to any such dangerous setup for the stock.

I am not clear about this

@FrankSG ?

So I am trying to make sense of the comments found in that thread you linked. The author is undoubtedly much more intelligent than I am regarding these matters, but I'm going to do my best to use as much of my smooth brain as possible to decipher.

Before I begin. I'm not sure what he means by "Let's f***ing do this" with a photo of a burnt Model X on this tweet. https://twitter.com/alexharfouche1/status/1359964295552000008 Does that exhibit a negative bias?

123.jpg


Back to the thread. I'll number my observations along with the parts of his tweets (it's long).

1) His thesis is that TSLA is "ripe for a short"
2) He proposes that TSLA is one of the most "grossly overvalued stocks EVER" based on traditional metrics (EV/Sales, EV/EBITDA, etc)
3) Particularly FY21 EV/Sales translating into an "uber-bullish" 19-22 CAGR
4) Agrees that TSLA has grown quickly, and "focusing on valuation is lame" but proposes that this was "never neither a growth nor multiples story"
5) Believes that TSLA was the "mother of all delta squeezes" passing from two reflexivity loops (1- options bubble, 2- S&P inclusion)
6) Since early Jan, average daily notional volume was 300% over underlying shares - meaning these were coordinated moves by institutions (not retail)
7) Low number of small size contracts supports #6
8) Option positioning moved bearish after S&P inclusion with institutions passing risk to retail (via index funds)
9) Currently $250bn of puts OI vs $190 bn of calls resulting in $60bn bear skew
10) #9 is equal to combined AAPL and AMZN bullish skew
11) Noted Deep OTM puts were populated across maturities rather than just Feb - his attached graph shows elevated amounts in all months throughout the year with concentration in the next few months
12) Overall market is skewed bullish while TSLA is skewed bearish. Vanna effect squeezes on the way up (Vanna is the change in delta for a 1% change in implied volatility - how many more shares are required to hedge with small increases in volatility)
13) Vanna can also work in reverse. As OTM puts get less OTM, Vanna AND Gamma impacts will cause 2 "doom loops" causing MM needing to sell more shares to hedge
14) Since inclusion, passive funds have been buying, active funds have been selling
15&16) Downward move could cause passive funds to sell as well - "doom loop"
17) Multiplier effect of funds selling of stocks with limited floats is of convex nature
18) More doom loop - correlation between high passive ownership and higher volatility/mediocre liquidity
19) (Tweet is missing)
20) Shorts only need a day to cover YOLO call delta hedging
21) Bag holders are "Vanguard pops and moms". The set up is there for a downward squeeze - waiting for a "final trap"
22) TSLA pump chatter on r/wsb (I couldn't find much when I searched)
23) "Smart hands" have connected all the dots and planted the deep OTM cluster of puts

TL;DR - He believes that institutions have set up the circumstances for a sharp downward squeeze (delta/gamma/vanna) now that retail (via passive funds) are the "bag holders".

Stuff like this creates a lot of FUD as there is an irrational hatred for this company; and folks trip over each other beaming with confirmation bias. However, not everything is without merit.

Personally, this is difficult for me to take a stance without more information - particularly how it looked like last year. The red P&L this week is making me edgy. :( (hugs waifu).
 
Musk’s Younger Brother Sells $25.6 Million of Tesla Shares

Board member Antonio Gracias meanwhile sold 150,747 Tesla shares, leaving him with a direct holding of 2,545. However, he replaced these with new long positions via long-dated call options, also known as Long-term Equity Anticipation Securities, or LEAPs. Gracias bought about 150,000 call options expiring in June 2022 and 2025 with exercise prices of $52.38 and $68.56. He also indirectly owns 1.3 million Tesla shares through AJG Growth Fund.
What's does that mean?

It means he is bullish AF.

Edit: Apparently he was the first institutional investor in Tesla.

Edit2: I'm considering LEAPs.
 
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here are three tech stocks from the past week. Which one is TSLA? Whatever price action we're seeing in TSLA, it isn't unique.

TSLA is the middle one, BTW. Top one is AMZN, bottom one is AAPL

edit : I don't know how to do the Spoiler section thing...

Uh that's misleading. Apple is down 1.2% over the week. Tesla is down 9%. Just because the chart on the surface might look somewhat the same doesn't mean the trading action has been the same
 
@Artful Dodger - can you please give an update on your opinion of how many shares the Big Boats still need to buy before they let TSLA leave the dock? I followed your S&P500 inclusion comments regarding such Institutional buying with great interest

IMO, nearly all the required buys for S&P 500 inclusion were done by Christmas, as we discussed here extensively.

The run-up to $880 in the 1st 2 weeks of January was a short-covering rally IMO, as some of the liquidity provided on Fri, Dec 19th was short sales (maybe 1/3rd of the 100-odd million shares traded during the Closing Cross and A/Hrs on Dec 18).

So those shares HAD to be settled within 13 days because large institutions WILL NOT ignore any FTDs. They would take legal action if they didn't get the shares they bought.

That's why there HAD to be a runup in January: Naked Shorts HAD to be covered, as opposed to the usual just kick the FTD 'can' down the road:

Counterfeiting Stock - Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation
supplydemand.jpg

Elon and senior leadership at Tesla should bury the shortzes, IMO.

Now, wrt Benchmarked Funds (rather than passive Index Funds), they ALWAYS want to buy low, so they'll pick up shares on the cheap when offered, but they aren't in a rush. I do think though that these large institutions would also insist on FTDs being settled, so perhaps some upward pressure from that.

Cheers!
 
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I have a "play" account I use for day/swing trading just for the personal challenge of it, and while I haven't held TSLA with that account I went and bought 19 shares @ $790 this morning. Hard to resist at these prices, and next weeks green plan from Biden will likely spike the SP at least a bit.

If the stock dips then I'll just hold those 19 shares until we break above 900 later this year. Tesla has too much momentum and catalysts going for it now, I'm confident it will break out at some point. And I continue to just HOLD my long term TSLA in my other accounts.

THIS.

I'm not a loaded investor like many of you here with millions or even 10's of thousand's, and so a couple of 1000 is a big deal to me. I'm currently £3k down on short term trades, am I worried.... hell no!
Because Tesla has SO MUCH GOING FOR IT THIS YEAR!! It will be an amazing year for them and the stock price will end up reflecting that, even if we have to wait a little while.
Yeah the momentum has dried up a bit for now but there's nothing to fundamentally worry about. Tesla is sound. Tesla is growing hugely. Tesla tastes gooooooood :D
 
IMO, nearly all the required buys for S&P 500 inclusion were done by Christmas, as we discussed here extensively.

The run-up to $880 in the 1st 2 weeks of January was a short-covering rally IMO, as some of the liquidity provided on Fri, Dec 19th was short sales (maybe 1/3rd of the 100-odd million shares traded during the Closing Cross and A/Hrs on Dec 18).

So those shares HAD to be settled within 13 days because large institutions WILL NOT ignore any FTDs. They would take legal action if they didn't get the shares they bought.

That's why their HAD to be a runup in January: Naked Shorts HAD to be covered, as opposed to the usual just kick the FTD 'can' down the road:

Counterfeiting Stock - Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

Elon and senior leadership at Tesla should bury the shortzes, IMO.

Now, wrt Benchmarked Funds (rather than passive Index Funds), they ALWAYS want to buy low, so they'll pick up shares on the cheap when offered, but they aren't in a rush. I do think though that these large institutions would also insist on FTDs being settled, so perhaps some upward pressure from that.

Cheers!

Thank you @Artful Dodger - it was the Benchmarked Funds that I was specifically wondering about.