Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StealthP3D]

Those CEOs established quasi-monopolies before people hated their guts.

Many already hate Musk and Tesla has less than 2% US automotive market share.

I don't think constant anti-Musk/anti-Tesla propaganda is good publicity for Tesla or Musk.

Particularly when it is not answered by competent PR Team/ Advertising Team.

Like I said before doesn't block Tesla from being massively successful/ profitable. It would be easier if public perception reflected the facts on the ground. Americans should be bursting with pride at what Tesla is accomplishing.

Now you are changing your previous story that anti-Musk sentiment is mostly caused by his Twitter antics. And you are finally understanding the true root of the problem - the Mainstream Media disparages Musk as often as possible.

As long as Tesla threatens the status quo to the tune of billions of dollars, Musk could be a perfect angel sitting on the right-hand side of JC himself and the MSM would still portray him as an unsavory creature. Tesla will still succeed in radical fashion.

 

[2daMoon]

...

Particularly when it is not answered by competent PR Team/ Advertising Team.
...

This is what I was alluding to. Once expanded production capability is ramped at GigaTexas, Berlin, and Shanghai the PR department can step back up to the plate and start getting runners on base, setting up for one home run after another.

It would be a disadvantage now to change a potential buyer's mind, then be unable to deliver a car for months due to the increased demand which could result from the PR.

Let the FUD continue to percolate until Tesla can quickly and easily put a vehicle into the hands of every convert who reasons their way past the FUD.

 

[WattsHappening]

Sorry if I missed this posted previously, but vote history is back! Thanks Mods!

 

[Knightshade]

Ah, not so fast, or so strong. Those vehicles have all the hardware for FSD, yes? And with a flip of a switch and a monthly subscription what happens?

I mean... nothing, unless they change their entire business.

They're a car rental company.

If they decide they're gonna STOP being one and instead directly operate taxis, I suppose they could- but it wouldn't really change anything if they owned 100 teslas versus any 100 random individuals owning 100 Tesla.


So the "car rental company that happens to rent to gig economy folks buys teslas" story is a nothingburger as far as robotaxis.

Their current business model is moving to EVs having nothing to do with FSD- but because their customers realize EVs are cheaper to manually operate compared to gas cars (plus the lower maintenance and better eventual resale for the rental company on top).



Unless your premise is they're going to pay for an FSD subscription on each car themselves, then rent them out to OTHER people (presumably passing on the FSD cost) to.... what? have the renters then operate them as robotaxis?

That makes no sense. That's like running your OWN robotaxi company with extra steps.

 

[SN_8]

Can somebody please explain to me how a buy rating isn't an "investment recommendation"?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1369751105761083392

 

[MXWing]

It's a ridiculous "survey" because there are only two choices to the question "What is your attitude towards Elon Musk":

1) He's part of why I like Tesla
2) He's part of why I don't like Tesla

It's conflating two different things;

1) Whether you like Elon Musk
2) Whether you like Tesla

There is no way to extract meaningful data from such a loaded question. The only rational conclusion was this survey was designed specifically to the highest number of negative responses because the only positive response offered requires liking both Musk and Tesla. If you have a negative attitude about either you have to answer with the only negative choice. And it doesn't offer a rational choice for people who don't like Musk but love the cars (a large percentage of the total respondents). This is so transparent it's silly.

But Tesla has endured this kind of favoritism all through the last decade and they are still succeeding in wild fashion. Jaw-dropping fashion to the hoards of naysayers.

Beyond ridiculous - hit piece journalism.

TRYING TO ANSWER A QUESTION NO ONE ASKED.

This dumb survey could be created with a random number generator.

Select random CEO of a car manufacturer. (And I would have money on 99.99 of the populace being unable to match all CEOs to all car manufacturers. Heck, I can't even name the Lucid CEO even though I am lugging around some CCIV bags!)

Ask opinion of random CEO.

Ask opinion of random CEO's cars and if they like them.

Does random CEO make you like the cars less or more??!

Leading you to...

How could you possibly like the random CEO AND their cars?!

 

[2daMoon]

Can somebody please explain to me how a buy rating isn't an "investment recommendation"?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1369751105761083392

I think he is saying, "We only provide investment advice to paying customers. If you act on this tweet, that's all on you."

 

[traxila]

NO I posted a spreadsheet that has market cap in the title but also shows enterprise values in column Q, have you even looked at the spread sheet on a computer with a screen large enough to see the content or are you just assuming it doesn't have enterprise values because the title of the link?

The source for column Q is linked have you visited that source? Did you even read what company it is? If you keep spouting definitions without looking at what the spreadsheet actually has in it I'm done with this conversation.

Per accepted financial websites TSLA has a larger enterprise value than TM or VW.DE and has for some time now. That hasn't changed even with the recent dip.

Yeah, column Q was off the screen, sorry. Was thrown off buy the large title that only mentioned market cap.

Wasn't saying that Tesla enterprise value dipped below anyone other companies.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Sorry for the definitions. Pretty sure we are done with this conversation.

 

[StealthP3D]

Just to get "what Musk said" in 1 place-


Here he says 10 days (on March 6th- which would be March 16th)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1368329387733512193

here he says it'll be out roughly after QA testing is done which is supposed to be end of next week (posted on March 9th)....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1369237279378714629

So depending how vaguely he's using next week it might've slipped a few days from the March 6 post to the March 9th one. Slipping further wouldn't be shocking of course.

Not really, the timeline didn't slip considering he never said it would be available in "10 days" (10 days in the business world generally means two weeks), he said "~10 days". I assume you know "~" means "approximately". I don't see how narrowing down the expected timeframe equates to the timeline slipping. The timeline may or may not slip, my point is, it didn't slip between those two tweets.

 

[EVWatcher]

Then you need to learn to read like KarenRei, because enterprise value is in that spreadsheet in col Q.

View attachment 643363


so saying market cap does not equal enterprise value doesn't change the fact that the enterprise value didn't go below the two companies you mentioned.

@oldtavguy.105496
@Andy-o.109432

will need to pay attention as well. I though linking to Top 25 Automakers by Market Cap would be good enough, I didn't know I'd have to read it for you too.

you seem unnecessarily hostile hostile.
I didn’t say for sure it was lower.

*sigh*
My point was to illustrate the narrative of Tesla being larger than the next 10 automotive companies combined was not worth being playing with because Tesla was in fact close in value to Toyota. Which yes, your spreadsheet in my opinion proves is an accurate statement. When Tesla was 560-ish it was comparable to Toyota in enterprise value - at least by my standards. I don’t see why you felt the need to respond this way but thanks for making this place so fun. /s

 

[Tyler34]

Not really, the timeline didn't slip considering he never said it would be available in "10 days" (10 days in the business world generally means two weeks), he said "~10 days". I assume you know "~" means "approximately". I don't see how narrowing down the expected timeframe equates to the timeline slipping. The timeline may or may not slip, my point is, it didn't slip between those two tweets.

~10days maybe, ~10months definitely. but i think twitter cut off the last 27 characters of his tweet

 

[Nocturnal]

Just in case anyone else is pulling their hair out with the "Elon promised 1 million robotaxis in 2020" bullshite.

3.10 or so. It's crystal clear that it's 1 million robotaxi capable cars in 2020. Now, he did miss his claim that they would have regulatory approval somewhere in 2020. We did have a Pandemic though so that likely did not help.

 

[Cherry Wine]

Army of Refreshed Tesla Model S Are Ready for 2021 Q1 Quarter-End Push

Tesla is preparing for the Q1 quarter-end push and is actively producing the refreshed Model S. Demand for vehicles is very high and more than 150 Model S have been seen at the Fremont factory.

www.tesmanian.com

Tesmanian received photographs taken by a drone flown above the Fremont factory, which shows that Tesla is in active production of the refreshed Model S. In addition to the vehicles spotted a few days ago being loaded onto trucks and transported to delivery centers, a new batch of newly produced vehicles was recently spotted. Over 150 Model S have been seen at the factory.

According to Musk, due to such high demand for the refreshed Model S/X, production on these assembly lines will soon return to double-shift operation, although this may happen as early as Q2


(the 1st drone fly over must be referring to what @gabeincal posted few days back)

Something to note: we still haven't seen any refreshed Model X come off the line. Not surprised, as that vehicle seems like a total PITA to make.

Is the $1,900,000,000,000 stimulus bill known to contain the renewal of EV tax credits that was bandied about weeks ago?

If so... bonus for TSLA

While this question was already answered, I wanted to add that EV credits are being discussed in the context of another budget reconciliation bill (the mechanism Democrats used to pass the stimulus bill) targeted for passage later this year. The main focus of that bill is infrastructure, I believe. I've read some chatter that it will probably be more difficult to pass the second bill, since it will be less focused and harder to keep the Democrats' broad coalition together, with progressives and moderates at odds with one another.

Just to get "what Musk said" in 1 place-


Here he says 10 days (on March 6th- which would be March 16th)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1368329387733512193

here he says it'll be out roughly after QA testing is done which is supposed to be end of next week (posted on March 9th)....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1369237279378714629

So depending how vaguely he's using next week it might've slipped a few days from the March 6 post to the March 9th one. Slipping further wouldn't be shocking of course.

First off, the "10 days" was preceded by a tilde, so that was always a rough estimate. End of next week on March 9th means Sunday the 21st to me. So while I don't really see it as having slipped thus far, a further slip wouldn't shock me either.

 

[lafrisbee]

I mean... nothing, unless they change their entire business.

They're a car rental company.

If they decide they're gonna STOP being one and instead directly operate taxis, I suppose they could- but it wouldn't really change anything if they owned 100 teslas versus any 100 random individuals owning 100 Tesla.


So the "car rental company that happens to rent to gig economy folks buys teslas" story is a nothingburger as far as robotaxis.

Their current business model is moving to EVs having nothing to do with FSD- but because their customers realize EVs are cheaper to manually operate compared to gas cars (plus the lower maintenance and better eventual resale for the rental company on top).



Unless your premise is they're going to pay for an FSD subscription on each car themselves, then rent them out to OTHER people (presumably passing on the FSD cost) to.... what? have the renters then operate them as robotaxis?

That makes no sense. That's like running your OWN robotaxi company with extra steps.

Last time.
The previous context was that the rental company rents them out to PEOPLE that have to actually drive them while doing lyft rides. The next step is not complete autonomy but having people still be behind the wheel while having almost completely developed FSD engaged while doing Lyft rides.
I think you skipped that part of the evolution on purpose to either try and win the argument or just for the sake of arguing. That part is going to be a vital and non-skippable step. It may last 1-3 years. But this "rental company" will be involved in developing the robotaxi fleet...actually IS being involved because acquiring the vehicles is integral at its core, and it is a wise move to start utilizing them as Non-FSD vehicle so those that rent them develop a better skill set on driving them BEFORE various levels of FSD released.

 

[MXWing]

Those CEOs established quasi-monopolies before people hated their guts.

Many already hate Musk and Tesla has less than 2% US automotive market share.

I don't think constant anti-Musk/anti-Tesla propaganda is good publicity for Tesla or Musk.

Particularly when it is not answered by competent PR Team/ Advertising Team.

Like I said before doesn't block Tesla from being massively successful/ profitable. It would be easier if public perception reflected the facts on the ground. Americans should be bursting with pride at what Tesla is accomplishing.

Many people are stupid too. Look at the ~50% of the population who voted for either X or Y.

We overestimate people who hate Musk, and we greatly over estimate what is known about Musk to the general public.

Positive PR is always a positive thing, but I think the reasons why people don't own Tesla's come down to:

* They can't afford it. Even Musk himself has acknowledged this.
* Tesla does not have sufficient vehicle variety to cover all the major segments. There needs to be a $25,000 vehicle and a minivan replacement. (The Model X does not satisfy in room or price)
* They are EV averse.
* They are irrational at selection of EV purchasing decisions. It makes NO sense to buy a Bolt with the Model 3 and Model Y is on the market.
* They are irrational about EV's in general. They worry about the time it takes to supercharge 3x a year, but forget about the full charges overnight.
* The average American is an idiot. Half of them are even more idiotic than that.
* They have wealthy envy. Someone who has more than you is reason enough to be hated.
* They can't afford the brand so irrationally hate it. Their opinion matters little. (Mainly directed to the Zoomers talking trash on Twitter)


2% automotive market share will grow alone just based on lowered cost of entry and adding vehicle classes.

That's why I don't lose any sleep when people say that Elon Musk is too brash or controversial. Any publicity is good publicity, even people who don't like the CEO buy the products.

Plenty of people have hate(d) and will continue to hate Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg. Please remind me, what percentage of people with Internet have Facebook accounts?

FTFY.

I would have liked Elon's chances if he ran as a spoiler candidate in the 2020 elections. Not suggesting he does, but I think the results would have been very surprising to the positive.

I wouldn't say *any* publicity is good but most of it is and I think Musk has that. Musk captures the imagination of successful and ambitious adults and children. These are the people that matter and will grow the brand.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

From the opening whistle, it looked like Team Tesla was going to continue from where they left off yesterday, but fatigue must have set in as they couldn't hold the lead and finished with a narrow loss. Not entirely surprising after the blowout yesterday as it is tough to maintain that kind of performance two games in a row. Hopefully they are rested up and ready to continue their winning ways tomorrow.

Today
Score: 668.06
Margin of W/L: -5.52
Attendance: 60,364,815

Season
Record: 22-24
Total points in wins: 582.57
Total points in losses: -620.18
YTD gain/loss: -37.61 -5.33%
Avg points per win: 26.48
Avg points per loss: -25.84
Best W: 110.58 2021-03-09
Worst L: -68.83 2021-01-11
Last 10: 2-8
Streak: L1

 

[MountainRatMat]

I swear CNBC is just trolling us now.
NSFTF (not safe for tesla fans)
View attachment 643378
Seriously, stay safe in CA. Hope these 2 red S's aren't anyone's here.

This is a couple miles from my house. One is a 3 and it looks like the charge cable sheared off at the charge port from the force. 2 big fires ripped through here over the summer. Sorry to be OT but this one hit close to home. I was evacuated for 2 weeks over the summer.

 

[FireMedic]

This is a couple miles from my house. One is a 3 and it looks like the charge cable sheared off at the charge port from the force. 2 big fires ripped through here over the summer. Sorry to be OT but this one hit close to home. I was evacuated for 2 weeks over the summer.

Well over 25% of The cars on the road here in the bay area and in Lake Tahoe are teslas; so it’s better than 0% chance that any vehicle that makes the news is going to be a Tesla. Especially as they don’t pay to pandertise to the local broadcasters.
Good or bad. If it were a Ford, nobody would pay any attention to the brand. Tesla has got a special spotlight. Long term this is a good thing; not bad. And helps us to accumulate shares for a discount even today.

 

[JRP3]

I would have liked Elon's chances if he ran as a spoiler candidate in the 2020 elections.

Not a natural born US citizen.

 

[WVCS]

It's a ridiculous "survey" because there are only two choices to the question "What is your attitude towards Elon Musk":

1) He's part of why I like Tesla
2) He's part of why I don't like Tesla

It's conflating two different things;

1) Whether you like Elon Musk
2) Whether you like Tesla

There is no way to extract meaningful data from such a loaded question. The only rational conclusion was this survey was designed specifically to the highest number of negative responses because the only positive response offered requires liking both Musk and Tesla. If you have a negative attitude about either you have to answer with the only negative choice. And it doesn't offer a rational choice for people who don't like Musk but love the cars (a large percentage of the total respondents). This is so transparent it's silly.

But Tesla has endured this kind of favoritism all through the last decade and they are still succeeding in wild fashion. Jaw-dropping fashion to the hoards of naysayers.

A possible motivation for a survey like this could be to sow dissension inside Tesla and provide nourishment to sources within Tesla employee base or Tesla board who wish to challenge Elon.

Two factors that contribute to this not being too remote a possibility:

• The deliberate arrangement of the survey to drive extremes. I think most respondents won’t fully understand that the choice they made does not reflect their real intent and that the survey provides no choice to express their real intent.
• Escalant, the company that constructed this survey, has a large auto industry client base and shows logos of GM, Ford, Stellantis, Toyota, Nissan, Volvo among their customers. They claim they help their auto industry clients “prepare for the road ahead.”