Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Curt Renz]

What nonsense! Increases in traffic have nothing to do with the type of energy that powers the cars people will be buying.

The (London) Sunday Times: this weekend: Traffic jams will puncture our electric car dreams

Excerpt:

The number of cars on UK roads will rise by more than a quarter in the next three decades as the shift to electric vehicles causes a congestion crisis in towns and cities, according to research.

A report published today says that 10 million more cars will hit the road between now and 2050, despite a government drive to cut greenhouse gas emissions to net zero. This will lead to an 11 per cent rise in overall traffic.

 

[CorneliusXX]

I think the stickier (legal) wicket will be how early/existing SpaceX investors react to sharing the wealth with TSLA investors. Here's my take:

He didn't say that long term Tesla investors were going to get a discount to the IPO price. My guess is that the IPO will be well oversubscribed and he is just going to make sure that when it comes time to divvy up the allocation of shares he will allot a portion of shares to Tesla investors at the IPO price. Normally us lowly retail investors wouldn't get a look in at IPO as the shares would be allocated to insto investors or other favourites of the arranging banks.

If anything, the additional demand from Tesla investors might slightly increase the effective IPO price and benefit SpaceX investors.

 

[Beltsbear]

Whereas when I hear "land yacht", I think of:

View attachment 678510

Agree. It is a pet peeve of mine when people refer to the Model S as a "land yacht". I owned two "land yachts" and drove others (1970's Delta 88, Cadillac coupe Deville, Buick Skylark) and those are the kind of cars that have "land Yacht" handling. You signal down to the engine room for more power (even with 350 v8's), when a highway sign says slow to 40mph for a turn, it is meant specifically for you (and really, these cars are dangerous on turns when too fast). Even the 2016 model S handles exceptionally well for a heavy car, and never feels out of balance or out of control, let alone how the new lighter ones will do. . The S is no "land Yacht". Not even close.

 

[Artful Dodger]

He didn't say that long term Tesla investors were going to get a discount to the IPO price. My guess is that the IPO will be well oversubscribed and he is just going to make sure that when it comes time to divvy up the allocation of shares he will allot a portion of shares to Tesla investors at the IPO price. Normally us lowly retail investors wouldn't get a look in at IPO as the shares would be allocated to insto investors or other favourites of the arranging banks.

If anything, the additional demand from Tesla investors might slightly increase the effective IPO price and benefit SpaceX investors.

But access to the IPO price is preferrential access. Diverting shares (even at the same price) to investors with a proven record of holding shares for the long term is exactly what Elon wants, and what would benefit Starlink investors the most.

Shortzes will pile in, just because of the association with Elon. I sincerely hope that Starlink does not IPO until there is a digital share certificate / authentication system in place to prevent counterfeiting of shares.

Although it won't matter even if every single IPO share goes to a long-term holder (who will not sell), if Options Market Makers continue their reign of unrestricted naked short selling. Greed w/o fear for the priviledge few. Bad combination for investors (and for Business).

#SEC do your job.

 

[MABMAB]

TSLA needed IPO money to grow.
I want Starlink to NEED money to grow. I do not want to buy when it has already grown.
IPO now!

 

[Prunesquallor]

TSLA needed IPO money to grow.
I want Starlink to NEED money to grow. I do not want to buy when it has already grown.
IPO now!

Starlink has a bunch of enemies just the way Tesla does, and I have no doubt they can find a bunch of shorting goons to try to damage the company. Lesson learned. I think Elon wants Starlink to be invulnerable before going public.

 

[Todd Burch]

Dismissing any concerns they have is incredibly short sighted.

One could argue that dismissing the yoke without trying it is short-sighted too.

If everyone did everything the same way, there would never be innovation.

 

[PeterJA]

So have we really reached that point in this forums history where anybody who points out that a decision taken by tesla might not be perfect they get told that they are dumb, codgy fossils, or boomers, or that they should stick to horses?
Maybe everybody I know is a dumb codgy boomer fossil, but guess what? teslas cars are still VERY expensive in europe (from where I offer my perspective) and the vast majority of people I know considering a tesla are indeed, middle aged or older.

You can rave about elons dope-smoking and cool twitter following gives him free marketing with teenagers and twentysomethings, but actually... those people cannot afford a brand new EV, and wont be able to for probably a decade.

Those codgy boomer fossils are the ones buying the model S and X, and potentially roadster. Dismissing any concerns they have is incredibly short sighted.

1) Nobody complaining about the yoke "pointed out" anything except their own opinion, which was based on an extremely unscientific sample. Show us statistically valid data about yoke popularity, then you can complain about Tesla's "idiocy."

2) Nobody except you suggested all middle-agers and seniors are codgy fossils. I'm a senior and I'm fine with the yoke (for my Cybertruck). But that anecdote proves nothing about yoke popularity, just as yours does.

3) Some members here seem to relish chastising others as uncritical Tesla fans when the others disagree about a topic. Again, your concern about the yoke is your opinion. Dismissing that concern is mine. Everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[MXWing]

So have we really reached that point in this forums history where anybody who points out that a decision taken by tesla might not be perfect they get told that they are dumb, codgy fossils, or boomers, or that they should stick to horses?
Maybe everybody I know is a dumb codgy boomer fossil, but guess what? teslas cars are still VERY expensive in europe (from where I offer my perspective) and the vast majority of people I know considering a tesla are indeed, middle aged or older.

You can rave about elons dope-smoking and cool twitter following gives him free marketing with teenagers and twentysomethings, but actually... those people cannot afford a brand new EV, and wont be able to for probably a decade.

Those codgy boomer fossils are the ones buying the model S and X, and potentially roadster. Dismissing any concerns they have is incredibly short sighted.

Like with most things, there is always a winner and a loser. Yoke is a win for the future. Yoke is a loss for fossils.

Tesla has earned the benefit of the doubt. I've been around long enough to hear whine like

1.) ohhhh there's no speedometer right in front of me!
2.) ohhhh there's only ONE screen.
3.) ohhhh there's not enough buttons
4.) ohhhh it uses a stupid key credit card.
5.) ohhhh the glass is going to make the car unusable in hot weather
6.) ohhhh no one wants to see 1,343,344 of the same cars on the road.

Excited for my Plaid X with yoke. Even more excited for my Cybertruck with yoke.

Maybe expensive cars should have yokes, and cheaper cars have fossilized 360 wheels?

I made u-turns just fine with some oval controller in Mario Kart. I also made u-turns just fine using an analog stick in Mario Kart 64.

BRING ON THE YOKE BABY.

 

[MABMAB]

Starlink has a bunch of enemies just the way Tesla does, and I have no doubt they can find a bunch of shorting goons to try to damage the company. Lesson learned. I think Elon wants Starlink to be invulnerable before going public.

Then where does the benefit come for the shareholder?
These companies that go public to access the capital markets to grow offer the best growth.
I do not want a company that has already grown to then access the markets, such as GoPro where they all cashed out. GPRO

GPRO - GoPro Inc. Stock Price and Quote

GPRO - GoPro Inc. - Stock screener for investors and traders, financial visualizations.

finviz.com

 

[CorneliusXX]

But access to the IPO price is preferrential access.

We might be making the same point here. I noted that IPO access is preferential.

The difference is that I think there's no sticky wicket (re-referencing the quote below I was addressing) because SpaceX shareholders would sell at the IPO price regardless of whether it was Tesla investors or institutional investors being alloted the shares at IPO for the IPO price. SpaceX is not sharing the wealth, they will get paid the same either way.

Assuming the starlink share price increases post IPO it's the institutional investors who lose out because they didn't get as many shares alotted as they would have if Tesla shareholders couldn't pick any up.

I think the stickier (legal) wicket will be how early/existing SpaceX investors react to sharing the wealth with TSLA investors. Here's my take:

 

[Thekiwi]

Latest datapoint : Model 3 SR+ delivery in Toronto is 9 to 13 weeks out, which could mean Q3 is already close to sold out View attachment 678469

I don’t think so. 9-13 weeks is basically all of September. Tesla can churn out more than 50k model 3 units from Fremont in the last half of the quarter for delivery in that timeframe, all of which may not have received orders for yet. Plus Model 3 LR is still showing delivery as early as July (which is basically the earliest deliveries after export batches have been done), and Model 3 Performance is available for delivery next week.

Given the above I would actually say the opposite Is more likely - the majority of Q3 Model 3 production allocated for North America market is likely awaiting orders.

 

[Krugerrand]

So have we really reached that point in this forums history where anybody who points out that a decision taken by tesla might not be perfect they get told that they are dumb, codgy fossils, or boomers, or that they should stick to horses?
Maybe everybody I know is a dumb codgy boomer fossil, but guess what? teslas cars are still VERY expensive in europe (from where I offer my perspective) and the vast majority of people I know considering a tesla are indeed, middle aged or older.

You can rave about elons dope-smoking and cool twitter following gives him free marketing with teenagers and twentysomethings, but actually... those people cannot afford a brand new EV, and wont be able to for probably a decade.

Those codgy boomer fossils are the ones buying the model S and X, and potentially roadster. Dismissing any concerns they have is incredibly short sighted.

I’m old. Love a yacht floor, don’t take anything to a dry cleaner, love no dash display, and as long as there’s a single cupholder for me my passengers can hold their drinks or get out of my car.

Besides being old, I like to think I’ll give new things a good ole college try with an open mind before swinging my opinion around like it means anything but I do understand that can be real tough for a segment of the population who feels they need to heard all the bloody time especially when they’re talking out that opinion.

 

[nativewolf]

I’m old. Love a yacht floor, don’t take anything to a dry cleaner, love no dash display, and as long as there’s a single cupholder for me my passengers can hold their drinks or get out of my car.

Besides being old, I like to think I’ll give new things a good ole college try with an open mind before swinging my opinion around like it means anything but I do understand that can be real tough for a segment of the population who feels they need to heard all the bloody time especially when they’re talking out that opinion.

You realize that sounds logical but then someone sees you have a cat, a freaking cat ...well so then we know you're just talking nonsense.

 

[Paul_SF]

2022- “U Yoke?”

 

[TheTalkingMule]

The yoke should be optional or at least plaid only. I would never buy it, and probably 60% of the market.

So what's the final word on the Shanghai "recall"? Bloomberg is telling me Tesla has been dealt "big blow" since nearly all cars "require a fix". I was hearing folks here imply it's an OTA update and that's it. If so, these headlines are absurd. Nothing new I guess($$$).

 

[MC3OZ]

So have we really reached that point in this forums history where anybody who points out that a decision taken by tesla might not be perfect they get told that they are dumb, codgy fossils, or boomers, or that they should stick to horses?
Maybe everybody I know is a dumb codgy boomer fossil, but guess what? teslas cars are still VERY expensive in europe (from where I offer my perspective) and the vast majority of people I know considering a tesla are indeed, middle aged or older.

You can rave about elons dope-smoking and cool twitter following gives him free marketing with teenagers and twentysomethings, but actually... those people cannot afford a brand new EV, and wont be able to for probably a decade.

Those codgy boomer fossils are the ones buying the model S and X, and potentially roadster. Dismissing any concerns they have is incredibly short sighted.

Ultimately Tesla will make cheaper cars, and expensive cars with conventional steering wheels.

Currently they are production constrained, if they were able to lift production, there are an number of options they can use to increase demand:-

• Offer additional options, including steering wheels in cars with a yoke.
• Bring back discontinued trims, Model 3 RWD LR/SR, Model Y SR
• Lower prices, enabled by higher production volumes, and additional cost savings.
• New lower priced models.. (e.g. Model 2)
• Additional vehicle types, vans etc...

I expect we are going to see all of the above over the next 2-3 years, but vans might take a few years longer.

Replacing a yoke with a wheel is something they could do a very short notice...

They haven't reduced the price of the Plaid, there is no indication that demand is an issue, and many people are only now finding out how good these cars are.
They seem a long way from running out of buyers who are happy to try a yoke.

 

[Jack6591]

The yoke should be optional or at least plaid only. I would never buy it, and probably 60% of the market.

So what's the final word on the Shanghai "recall"? Bloomberg is telling me Tesla has been dealt "big blow" since nearly all cars "require a fix". I was hearing folks here imply it's an OTA update and that's it. If so, these headlines are absurd. Nothing new I guess($$$).

Just curious, what’s the basis of your 60% projection?

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

I thought there was an option to select a regular steering wheel? Or was that for the non-plaid only? Or only in Europe?

 

[InTheShadows]

What is everyone’s thoughts on TroyTeslike’s latest P&D numbers?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1409290696197033984