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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Meh. 72% of Elon’s Twitter followers are bots. Megaphone not that big.

Elon warned you and every shareholder years ago; if you don’t like volatility, don’t own TSLA shares. Don’t cry now because you didn’t listen to him.
If I was a whiner about volatility I wouldn’t be here. Added more today.
 
swing and a miss. I've been a shareholder since 2015. Holding through downturns and crashes is easy. Holding through Elon openly supporting white supremacy and bigotry is hard. My anger has zero to do with the share price, i've been through that part a thousand times.

I'm frustrated by Elon's tweets too, but I think you're making a logical leap here. Elon said he'll vote Republican. You're making a logical leap that Republican = white supremacy and bigotry. Not everyone here thinks that way (and many Republicans would be rightfully offended to be labeled as such). That's why you're getting pushback.
 
Holy smokes. Why do some people think Elon has alienated half the country?

I have voted Democrat for the last 18 years. Tesla hasn’t lost me. And by the reactions on my post here, it will be okay save for a percentage of the “omg I’m totally offended” crowd. Good riddance if you ask me. Good lord.
I've voted Dem since I moved to this Country, Tesla, Elon and the Dem party have not lost me. I just don't identify with the easily offended crowd ( and trust me that's both parties). I believe in the mission and can understand why Elon feels like he's being blasted from the left, recently. I don't agree with anyone 100% of the time, not even my wife and kids ,why would I hold Elon to that standard.
 
My worry as an investor is the that Elon is reducing a large chunk of the TAM pie with his politics, so this is very relevant discussion to future demand. The "right of center" supporters that he is gaining now largely view climate change as a hoax, are against renewables and solar, want to "drill baby drill", "clean coal", roll back MPG requirements, etc. I just don't see them replacing the demand of the predominately left leaning buyers that have historically supported Tesla's growth. Yes, these are generalizations, of course there are exceptions.

I still love Elon, my Model 3, my TSLA chairs and can't wait for my Cybertruck. But I think his actions will materially affect the business in a negative way.
Thing is, those "predominantly left-leaning buyers" are also likely "center/left", like Elon. Rational, sensible, successful people. Like Elon, the Democratic party has left them in their lurch to the extreme, wacky, divisive left. The Bernie Sanders and Lizzie Warrens that do nothing useful but spend all their time attacking those that have made something of themselves and become successful. They insist in "taxing the rich" while the rich pay the vast majority of the taxes in this country. They attack Elon for not paying taxes-when has has paid more income tax than any American in history. I think the real reason the Democratic party is so rabid about Elon right now is that he is saying...what a good number of existing Tesla owners have to be thinking. Lets face it, Elon is the face of the "climate change" movement, probably having done more to reduce CO2 emissions than anyone on the planet. The constant attacks on Musk by a portion of the Dem party shows how little they really care about climate change, well, except as a political talking point. Certainly not true of all Democrats, but the Democratic party is not what it was in the past. Perhaps a smart, vocal, center/left person actually speaking up will help Democratic leadership find their way and come back to the center. Today's Democratic party is far from the party of JFK or even Bill Clinton. Anyway, enough politics, how's 10.12 looking?
 
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Fair weather? No, I draw the line at siding with right-wing bigotry, regardless of my own financial interest. Elon’s behavior over the last 2 years has become increasingly bigoted and reactionary and Trumpian. Im not a bigot and I’m not a hypocrite, and I am strong enough to take actions based on those principals rather than blindly and cowardly cheerleading evil to just to make a buck.

You are all fools if you think this bigot’s actions won’t strongly affect both the stock price and sales long-term. He’s making Tesla a seriously toxic brand with his open embracement of the bigotry of the GOP.
Look at your post. It is hilarious that you say You are not a bigot, when you fit the definition perfectly based on your rant…. 😅😅
 
It's fascinating how this thread is full of trolls on deeply red days.

Elon hasn't said anything shocking today, he just opened up about his political stance. I couldn't care less who he votes for, the business called Tesla is sound and unchanged.

Do you know who else doesn't care? Wall Street. They just like money and have the memory of a goldfish. By year end nobody is talking about what Elon tweeted today, but all will be in awe of the yearly growth Tesla has shown AGAIN.

If you want out, sell. But don't expect my sympathy when you're crying for another dip to get in the stock after we've reached new highs.
Zero to do with Wall Street, everything to do with the customer base for the actually company making product.
 
Well you said Musk supporting white supremacists and that was the first thing that came to mind. (btw, there is a small neo nazi group that fight along with the Ukrainian army in the Donbas who may or may not be using starlink...life is full of nuances).

well, that's correct. this is wildly off topic -- if this post disappears i won't complain.

I support Ukraine and think Putin is a monster, but there are nazis in both camps, sadly. The Azov Battalion in Ukraine uses tons of Nazi imagery, and Zalenskyy just this week posted a photo of himself prominently sporting the Totenkopf logo (google it), which was worn by Nazi SS extermination camp guards. I doubt he realized this, which is undoubtedly why he deleted the post. Ukraine does have a Nazi problem, but that in no way justifies Russia's outrageous actions invading them and committing war crimes against their people, the vast majority of whom are not in any way nazis.

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Anyone thinking that demand is going to decline from here is falling into the trap of overweighting factors that are actually not very influential and discounting the factors that dominate.

This club, and presumably our social circles outside TMC, is a group of unusually well-informed, wealthy and principled people.

Most people are not this principled, or at least haven’t developed themselves enough as individuals to reach that point, and even if they would like to be so, they can’t afford it with their available time and financial resources.

Science is always our best bet rather than speculation and anecdotes which are rife with potential sources of data collection bias as well as cognitive bias in examining the data. Rigorous consumer psychology and microeconomics research shows that when making major purchasing decisions for a car, the following factors dominate:
  • Affordability
    • Sticker price/Monthly payments for poorly educated consumers
    • Total cost of ownership for knowledgeable consumers
  • Appearance/aesthetics
  • Utility
    • Range, storage space, seat count, headroom, comfort, cup holders, etc.
  • Perceived social status ramifications of the purchase
  • Perceived safety
  • Reliability
  • Performance and fun
Sorry if that seems overly cynical but this is the reality shown by the data. Self-interest tends to dominate actual purchase decisions and people will find a way to rationalize the purchase to avoid cognitive dissonance. Plenty of social justice warriors are still buying Subaru Foresters and Toyota Highlanders and 2500 sqft suburban houses with monoculture lawns because they “need it” when a bicycle and 1000 sqft would do just fine and probably make them feel less stressed about money and commuting. I do *sugar* like this too, by the way. We’re all guilty of it. Everybody gangsta until substantial personal sacrifice is required.

Also, the younger generation gets it, they’re rightly afraid of climate change affecting their future, and they’re pissed off at the status quo. Every year they’re getting older and more affluent. Every year more of them download Robinhood and WeBull and buy TSLA and AAPL. They want, more than anything else, Teslas. Not cars, not EVs—Teslas. You want to impress your 23-year-old friends or boost the status of your younger brother in high school? Buy a Tesla. Be seen driving it in real life and on social media. It’s that simple.

The best leading indicator of global youth culture for the last 30 years has been American hip hop. Social trends usually get started this way. For instance, hip hop in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s was in no small part responsible for growing the international movement to boycott South Africa until Apartheid was abolished (link).

Rappers used to boast about garages filled wall-to-wall with Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, Ferrari and Lamborghini. Now the stars are increasingly bragging about Teslas at the expense of all other brands. Representative example: Travis Scott, one of the hottest rappers in the game right now, made a music video with the Cybertruck and Boring not-flamethrowers the day after the reveal. In case you didn’t click the link, it garnered 59M views and the top comment with 4.6k likes was “He actually flexed on us with a Cybertruck”.

Meanwhile, when I ventured away from deep blue Seattle a few months ago to Nevada, Texas, and Ohio, I spoke with several conservatives of all ages about Tesla. It’s hard for the subject not to come up in small talk when I’m a 27-year-old Teslanaire going on a retirement trip. One owns a Model X and said he wishes Elon would be President. (Sadly I had to inform him that’s unconstitutional because Elon’s an immigrant, but I think I convinced him and his buddy that the US oil & gas industry is going to collapse all by itself irrespective of who’s in office and solar is our path to energy independence). Another had his mind blown by me telling him about the Cybertruck and Giga Austin and the fact that Texas leads the nation in solar and wind. Another person I met is a die-hard patriot and gun rights activist who thinks (bless his heart) that the USA would be better off kicking California out of the Union, and he is a huge Elon supporter too. And so on.

It should also be noted that on average, conservatives in the USA drive more miles with less efficient vehicles than liberals, cumulatively consuming roughly double the amount of gas and diesel. If they as a demographic are finally are coming around to realizing that solar and EVs are not a globalist conspiracy to take down freedom and turn America into an apocalyptic socialist hellhole ruled by The Swamp, I’m actually pretty pleased with that outcome. It’s a lot better than hearing sarcastic comments about “shoveling all this global warming off my driveway” every time it snows.

I think Tesla is going to be just fine and the worry is a waste of time. Sure, Elon is kicking the beehive again, but at least he’s being reasonable about it and not being a jerk like he was in 2018 when he was super stressed and exhausted from Production Hell. We survived that and we will definitely survive this too.
 
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Would just like to observe that most of the free world is more liberal than the democrats in the USA - most global customers find republicans and what they stand for abhorrent.
Excellent post - Your hate-filled generalizations against the other side of the aisle emphasizes exactly how the US has arrived at an unprecedented level of devisiveness despite almost every American agreeing on 95% of the issues, and it metaphorically represents the fundamental reason why Elon should buy Twitter and give an equal voice to all. My personal hope is that voters on both sides of the aisle reject the idea of down-ballot voting (voting all D or all R on any ballot simply because of party affiliation) as a result of the political extremism we have experienced under the last couple administrations, and we can return to a country that can put issues in front of parties when looking at any ballot at every level of government.
 
I'm frustrated by Elon's tweets too, but I think you're making a logical leap here. Elon said he'll vote Republican. You're making a logical leap that Republican = white supremacy and bigotry. Not everyone here thinks that way (and many Republicans would be rightfully offended to be labeled as such). That's why you're getting pushback.
The Republican Party overall is obviously more aligned with the “division and hate” crowd these days than the Democratic Party. It hasn’t always been that way but it sure is now. People are rightly upset that Elon is tweeting a Trumpian delusional big lie.

By contrast, this was Republican Liz Cheney just 2 days ago:

 
I wish Elon would steer clear of politics, but…

First they denied the existence of Tesla
Then they tried to give tax money to its competitors
They called him an evil and greedy public enemy
They wanted to tax all billionares, especially him, for being rich
Now they are trying to tell the world his renewable energy company is not socially responsible


I see a man speaking up for the truth. Who else is gonna do it if not Elon? Do you want to wait till the whole world has got the notion of Tesla as an evil enterprise repeatedly stuffed so far down their throat that they take it as the truth?
And all of that before he came out against Biden and stated that if the Dem party doesn't change, he'll vote GOP. Can't blame him for abandoning a party so divisive and hate filled. I just hope he manages not to get Epsteined for taking a stand.
 
buying twitter for the explicit purpose of unbanning bigots is the most recent example, although his flirtations with white supremacists like Jordan Peterson are examples that have been ongoing for a couple years now.
Well, swing and a miss, nice try though. Free speech is not white supremacy. Granted, the free, open exchange of ideas and discussions is something that the far left seem unable to tolerate. Here's a thought. Rather than calling people bad names-try debating them with facts.
 
I know that as an European I am a bit of an outsider, but:
Hope people can show a little more self-constraint here regarding politics and do not use Elon's use of that realm as an excuse to delve deeply into it.
No matter what you assume what will be the consequences to TSLA.
Please read the last 10 pages and consider: how did my investment thesis mature from this political bickering?