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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Lots of doom and gloom... and probably for good reason. Nasdaq today surpassed the peak decline (percent wise) of the Covid drop! Things are always darkest before the dawn.
I was actually surprised Tesla was down today given the Indonesia factory news? Shouldn't there be some positive news based on that?
Until it is confirmed, it really doesn't mean much.
 
I don't understand how you could be in the red if you've been into TSLA since 2018. We're "only" up 9.3x since 2018. Roughly.

Some of us like to trade options OKAY!?!?!?

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Me in Nov 2021 (TSLA SP $1200+) talking to the clients i was contracted to do projects for...."Yeah, i don't know if ill be able to get to that...You probably really do not need the redundancy as it is overkill"
Me today: "You know what, i think we need to add that thing we talked about in November to ensure you have 99.999999% up time"

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Hang in there y'all.....we all know how this is going to play out eventually!
 
In the USA it's really easy to fire people.
That is quite an exaggeration for today’s American labor situation, especially in the West Coast states where most of Tesla’s sales go in N America.

At this point the majority of Tesla’s vehicle sales occur outside the USA anyway.

People buy expensive cars when they have job security.
Tesla already has a backlog nearly a year long (3+ years for Cybertruck and probably 2-3 years for Semi) and available data indicates it’s still growing. Are you aware of this? Even if a bunch of people cancel orders they can still sell everything they can make even without reducing prices.

I assure you there is no shortage of financial resources for software engineers in SF and Seattle these days.

What's more likely is a recession. Lay-offs. etc. Tesla would do better than Ford and GM that would go bust (again) - but they wouldn't grow as quick as in a "normal" scenario.
What is your rationale for reaching this conclusion? I think Tesla would probably grow faster in a recession because their constraint right now is supply of logistics capacity, chips, batteries and other inputs which would ease if competitors and other non-auto companies start reducing or canceling orders again.

Also, in the UK electricity prices have gone from 13p/kWh to 35p/kWh in 18 months. Charging on the highway for electricity is not that much cheaper than gas prices. Charging on Ionity might even be more expensive in the UK. It's great if you can charge at home - especially on solar! But it's not going to help the poorest people, or the people worried about job security buy an electric car that's jumped $10-15k in a year.
The poorest people are not currently buying Teslas in the first place, especially in Europe where purchasing power is lower than N America and Tesla vehicle prices are extra high, so how would that affect demand? You can’t buy less than zero.

If we’re using anecdotes about energy price changes, my electricity price has risen $0.00/kWh this year last I checked, and I’m in a city where I literally can’t go for a 10 min stroll around my neighborhood without encountering multiple Teslas, and that’s in the heart of the city where many buildings still have no convenient charging. There’s even more Teslas across the lake on the rich, techy Eastside.

Also, solar and wind prices are now approaching $1/Watt for utility scale in several places worldwide. The levelized wholesale cost is now $2-5/MWh in the USA for example according to the latest annual Lazard report (source), which is starting to get close to the mere operating costs of coal and gas plants. You actually expect electricity to get more expensive worldwide in the next few years?
 
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That was the general conclusion from the discussion, that people shouldn't jump to conclusions as it's merely an allegation from a shady source. I said so myself in fact.

But investors wanted to discuss it, as it had potential relevance to stock action. Not sure why it's considered off-topic.
I see where you’re coming from but those kinds of discussions are better suited for r/TeslaInvestorsClub or Twitter.
 
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Perhaps a question for a more options-centric thread, but I think it's appropriate here.

Why is there always such a massive battle over certain options strikes right around expiration? I can understand having a put position at $650, but why not sell it earlier in the day rather than fight what looks like an expensive battle to simply hold $649?

Are hedge funds buying up tons of $650p over the last few days til they hold a ton of them? Are they able to do this so it pays off big if they can just get TSLA to close at $648? I guess I just don't see how a dollar or two is worth fighting over since at execution the contracts are only worth maybe $200 in real net cash.

Probably too complicated to explain briefly, but can someone illustrate the motivations of the short side guys who are clearly fighting for their lives at $650 this afternoon?
 
I follow this guy to get an idea of what is going on in the dealerships. Looks like buyers have finally had enough on one segment of the market.
Only a matter of time before the manufacturer’s who are relying on large margins from higher priced ICE vehicles get into trouble.
What I'm hearing is sell my Teslas and buy leaps.
 
Someone smarter than me please tell me this is capitulation / the bottom.
I will bite, though I do agree with @StealthP3D that these bottoms are only knowable in hindsight.

With that said, here are a few points worth considering.

1. TSLA Vs SP500:

The day Tesla was added to S&P 500 in Dec 2020, we closed at 695, with the trading prices earlier in the day at around the levels today. For reference, SPX on that day traded around 3700. Relative to that level, SPX is up about 3% and Tesla is down ~6%.

A significant underperformance, especially considering a) a lot of non-index funds had to still add Tesla, and more importantly b) Tesla blew the cover off the ball in terms of execution. What did the average S&P company do for you in terms of execution relatively speaking? To be fair, there was a good amount of supply to offset the index demand from Elon, but that pales in comparison to what had to be net bought by a multitude of funds.

Macro:

Clearly Powell wants to be the second coming of Volcker, and to be fair he cannot be blamed for wanting to tame inflation. Long term thats important for the US economy, a stable dollar, and its role as the reserve currency.

The fly in the ointment is - if you're paying any attention to the inflation numbers and the methodology the Feds use to calculate it, you would very well know that housing cost increases from increasing home prices and rents are added to the CPI calculations on a lagged basis. I believe it takes 6-12 months for all the rent increases and price appreciation that happened thus far to be baked into the inflation numbers. And we have a lid on energy prices from the drop in China consumption. I am not in @TheTalkingMule camp of oil is overpriced here. Russian oil being throttled by the west to the extent it has been, is a big deal.

So Fed has a lot of wood to chop, and there are 2 more rate increases coming with a good bit of quantitative tightening. On the earnings front, I believe SPX earnings estimates are yet to bake in impact from increasing factor costs that cannot be passed on to consumers. We just started to see this with WMT and TGT, and folks are speculating this will show up big time in AMZN numbers for 2Q, etc.

On top of this, equity risk premium is increasing. Which is to say, PEs are dropping, even after adjusting for the impact of higher interest rates. I do believe that we have seen the top for long term interest rates (3.2% on the 10 Yr), at least for the rest of the year.

Net net, SPX may have another 5+% or so to go, with a little more from may be a capitulation at the end. The big question is what does that mean for TSLA?

Options

Options, and flows from options have always been a huge driver for TSLA stock price, but now we are seeing that impact in reverse. As folks are aware I keep a tab on the number of Tesla shares indirectly owned via options here. For the first time since I have started keeping this record, which spans a little over 2 years, the shares are showing a negative number (middle column in the second table for today)! That is the options position calculated from all the open interest is a net short! This is remarkable because a significant amount of TSLA is owned by proxy via leaps. The shorter term puts for their part have managed to overwhelm the Leaps exposure for the first time. And by a significant amount.

What we have on our hands is a put squeeze from short dated puts. These are either protective puts or speculative puts, and regardless these will be monetized. These have become valuable because we have dropped about 500 points in about 7 weeks (Believe it or not). This put squeeze is not sustainable though, and as Tesla continues to execute we should see this revert back. This will surely be a tailwind in the coming days.

TLDR:

The macro picture continues to be negative for the next 3+ months. Options players have piled on with puts for a steep drop in Tesla price. Some headwinds from Shanghai troubles. I suppose we disconnect from Macros soon as the options headwinds are not sustainable. or at least not move with a 8x multiplier on down days like today as I type this.

I have no opinion on levels, but 620 is ~half of all time high. That has to count for something if we get there. Anyways back to watching macros which is all that matters for now I think.

Edit: edited a bit for clarity
 
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