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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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GOEV (Canoo) got a nice order from Walmart for a couple thousand EV's and the stock is up over 104% right now! 😮

Has Canoo actually built any EV's for production yet? If they have I must have missed it...

Tesla needs that Van to come out next after the CT is in production.
People are quick to jump on the "next Tesla". The only thing I remember about Canoo is this:

Ouch!
When will people just realize that the 'next Tesla' is Telsa!
 
Exactly. Here in PA we have hills and driveways which 2WD cars simply cannot drive up on bad winter days. I literally need AWD to get up my driveway in the snow. I've had many friends try to get up my driveway in their 2WD cars over the decades and they simply will not make it up to my house.

If Tesla only sold 2WD vehicles I wouldn't be able to own one due to my house location.
AWD might help you GO, but it won't help you STOP. So it's not safer.

-Edited for simplicity. Also I think this discussion started being specifically about safety*, hence my comment.

-Edited more later by adding this:

Truth be told, I wanna GO in the snow and ice as much as the next guy. There's a similar, eye-opening consideration when pulling a trailer, for instance; It's easy to get a heavy trailer moving, but it's stopping it that counts. Eye-opening for me when I almost learned about trailer-stopping the hard way.

*(or else I still need more coffee this morning)
 
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Just thought this was interesting and wanted to share. I received my shareholder voter material in the mail and it had a picture of the CyberTruck, not sure if it was because it was cheaper to print (less colors than a red/blue S/3/X/Y) or a hint or something to come. Either way it looked cool.

1657634714099.png
 
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AWD is not safer if AWD helps you GO when you otherwise could not, because I don't think AWD will help you STOP much if at all better, and for safety, it's being able to STOP and slow down that matters more.

This conversation started talking about advertising SAFETY. (I like to be able to go in ice and snow as much as anyone).
Well, yeah, if you don’t drive due to snowy weather, then that’s pretty safe! The reason I originally pushed back about the “RWD is great“ post is that there are common use cases for AWD and the post implied there weren’t.
 
I've been driving our RWD Model 3 and Stealth M3P AWD for 4 years now in all kinds of inclement weather, often hard enough (or in slippery enough conditions) to break traction were it not for electronic traction aids, under both acceleration and combinations of accelerations, cornering, braking. I can tell you on no uncertain terms, any difference in safety between AWD and RWD is miniscule to non-existent and has more to do with whatever tires we have on there at the moment and what air pressure they are at.

Any small safety advantage AWD may have had over 2WD has been almost entirely eliminated by Tesla's excellent electronic traction aids. The fact that the AWD can climb steep, icy hills that the RWD has no chance of making it up (all else being equal) actually makes the RWD the safer car by encouraging the use of proper winter tires and discouraging travel on icy roads that steep. The one minor safety advantage that is real is a small but real advantage in accelerating hard into fast traffic when traction limited, an occurrence primarily limited to freezing conditions or special situations like a cold, wet road contaminated with oil or antifreeze.

I'm pretty sure Tesla is not fooled by the mistaken notion that AWD is sooo much safer. I think you will find accident statistics will not bear that out either. Remember, not everything we have heard repeated 1000 times is actually true. I put this in the same category as "Consumers won't buy electric cars because they are too limiting."

This tells me Tesla's strong focus on AWD is almost entirely due to the fact that they have been production constrained for years now (AWD has higher margins) and a potential minor contributing factor being the fact that the AWD needs less maintenance, because the RWD requires regular tire rotations while the AWD does not. My best guess is that as Tesla's production continues to increase to the point they are no longer production constrained, not only will prices come down quite dramatically, but we will see a stronger mix of 2WD versions. The AWD Model 3's primary advantage over the RWD model is more even tire wear. The performance differences are inconsequential as the LR RWD Model 3 is faster than all big-engined muscle cars from the tire screeching 1960's.

In 2017 many people speculated that the AWD Model 3 would be the more efficient model due to it's ability to regen brake on all four wheels but that has not proven to be valid in practice, neither does this contribute to safety as the disc brakes can be blended with regen as necessary. The RWD model costs less, is lighter, goes farther on a charge in all traffic conditions and has a slightly nimbler steering feel. Given all this, I'm pretty sure there is an important role for 2WD Teslas to play in the transition to EV's.

That said, you can pry my P3D from my cold, dead hands! ;)

I rarely disagree with you, but here, I strongly do.

I have driven dozens of Teslas, usually for business trips, and some in some really bad weather like snow/ice. In no uncertain terms are the AWD cars more stable on "low traction" scenarios such as snow/ice.

I have never, not once, lost control of the AWD variants, but I have on two occasions had the RWD variants of a 3 spin out and fail to compensate.
 
Euro is at par with US Dollar.
With all the US money printing past 2 years, I was surprised to see the Dollar = Euro. Were they also busy printing money?


And the Canadian exchange is like .77 to the US dollar. Did the dollar get strong or is it purely a relative thing? This doesn't look like inflation relatively speaking, if imports are cheaper.

Currencies are always a relative thing. For all the doom and gloom we see here in the US, the rest of the world is worse. Among many other reasons, the US is more or less energy self sufficient and also exports oil.
 
Does that mean you're counting on ~50% upside in 4 months? I hope it works out for you (and me).

Likely will be closing tomorrow if CPI numbers tank market at loss, or in a few weeks after SP is back up.
Depends on sentiment and how fast SP changes. (along with IV etc)

if I get 10+ % on the trade as a quick turn around , that might be deciding factor.

+ inflation likely peaked, as long as there isn't more super bad news, I am expecting a relief rally ;)
 
Tesla has sold just under 3 million cars to date. If you assume they are all still on the road and average $100 per annum in supercharger purchases you are at $300 million revenue. That’s less than 0.5% of revenue.
I think the real value of the supercharging network is as a sales driver.
I agree and would slightly enhance this statement. As an investor, I'm thrilled that the Supercharger network is turning a profit. I also expect, like the gasoline delivery business, it will be limited profit margin - but hopefully better than gas stations get, at least while Tesla has the hands-down best network, and that will be for at least a few more years.
The other real value (related to the concept of it as a driver of sales) is that it is still a great competitive moat. Although PlugShare shows a lot of "fast" DC chargers out there, most of those are slower than even Tesla V1 chargers, and many are in poor repair and, crucially, with many you don't know until you get there. Granted many drivers won't look this deeply into it, but once they do, Tesla shines with their massive uptime and instant in-car network status checking.
Anecdote about this: I was very nervous on my last nearly 200-mile leg in western New Mexico (uphill + multiple rainstorms!), because the needed Superchargers were not reporting their up status to the car. I had to go on faith that they were there, and I was sweating a bit. Worth a lot to avoid that experience in general. That's the only time I've seen SC's not report their status, and in this case, all were operational, thankfully.
 
Likely will be closing tomorrow if CPI numbers tank market at loss, or in a few weeks after SP is back up.
Depends on sentiment and how fast SP changes. (along with IV etc)

if I get 10+ % on the trade as a quick turn around , that might be deciding factor.

+ inflation likely peaked, as long as there isn't more super bad news, I am expecting a relief rally ;)

CPI vs Core CPI will be interesting.
Gas prices started to come down in July so we may not see relief in this June number coming out tomorrow.
We may see an ugly CPI number but the Core CPI number which excludes Food & Energy could be encouraging.
Although, I am sure the doomsday prognosticators and Hawks will focus on the higher CPI number and ignore Core CPI.
 
Exactly. Here in PA we have hills and driveways which 2WD cars simply cannot drive up on bad winter days. I literally need AWD to get up my driveway in the snow. I've had many friends try to get up my driveway in their 2WD cars over the decades and they simply will not make it up to my house.

If Tesla only sold 2WD vehicles I wouldn't be able to own one due to my house location.
I agree, but this is not a SAFETY benefit, which was OP's original point. By definition, the 2nd motor is only used when accelerating (applying power to the wheels). Assuming disk brakes are as competent as regen braking, once you pull your foot from the accelerator, AWD and RWD have the same characteristics, e.g. braking to avoid a collision, gently cornering.

I can't live without AWD either driving into backwoods locations in winter (I've owned 3 AWDs, 3 FWDs, and 2 RWD [1975 Beetle and 2007 Miata :cool:]). But I don't think AWD reduces the chance of accident.

Even FWD is only safer than RWD if you are powering through an icy corner (FWD pulls you to where the wheels are pointing, RWD pushes you straight ahead, i.e. off the road). It's physics.
 
AWD might help you GO, but it won't help you STOP. So it's not safer.

-Edited for simplicity. Also I think this discussion started being specifically about safety*, hence my comment.

-Edited more later by adding this:

Truth be told, I wanna GO in the snow and ice as much as the next guy. There's a similar, eye-opening consideration when pulling a trailer, for instance; It's easy to get a heavy trailer moving, but it's stopping it that counts. Eye-opening for me when I almost learned about trailer-stopping the hard way.

*(or else I still need more coffee this morning)
Driving my Tesla in Colorado for the past 7 years, AWD will slow your vehicle down much safer due to regen on all four tires when you release the accelerator. Only once do I recall entering a slide when releasing the accelerator and then quickly corrected without touching the right pedal.
 
Forget what I said about TSLA just being spoofed today. Full on bear raid and naked shorting countinues from yesterday. Damn that’s some terrible trading.
Big volume of 700 Puts traded today, likely strongly related to the short activity we're seeing. Hopefully these are only a quick morning trade and we can get back to some more positive action.
 
Shanghai and another round of covid lockdowns look to be a real threat. China's market is down significantly in the last week. Cases are still growing. Macau opted to shutdown casinos... which likely means zero covid still rules the day. Things are not looking real bright at the moment there.

Overall market looking about setup for a break either way on CPI data. If CPI comes in too hot, the ability to test levels that could break to a low are within reach. Opposite also true. Nasdaq is basically right in the middle of 150 and 200 week MAs. SP500 about a third above 150 and two thirds below 100. Russell 2k hovering right at 250 week. Market is in the right range to test either way based upon numbers and projections.

IMO we need overall CPI to be below 8.5% and core in the low 5s or below (meaning 5.2%) to spark a real rally. At expectations likely leaves us in this purgatory until more GDP data comes available. Too hot and there will be a test prior to lows, but we could easily see another leg down if the levels break (10,825 for Nasdaq, 3750 SPX, 166.75 Russell).
 
Big volume of 700 Puts traded today, likely strongly related to the short activity we're seeing. Hopefully these are only a quick morning trade and we can get back to some more positive action.
This feels like one of those @Yoona days where we close at the premarket high. SO what's that.....+.5%?

Shenanigans rule the day today and all week likely.

Edit: Nice to see oil plummet again.