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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Well ... your implication about my stock ownership is telling. Yes, for the record I have a lot of TSLA stock ... well into 7 figures. I've made a fortune and unfortunately lost half of it in the last year ... but still well into the 7 figures. The fact that I'm a shareholder entitles me to have a say and the fact that I got in early and put a lot of money into a company that could have easily failed gives me the right to say and do what I want. SO basically .. thanks for your advice ... but I COULD NOT care less what you have to say.
And .. I'm still long and still sick of Elon's behavior. This narrative that shareholders don't have a right to question the CEO's behavior is cult like.
Edited: Grammer
I'm not sure what's so upsetting about his leadership. Is he the normal CEO that you never hear from? Nope. But is what he's doing with Twitter really that bad? Except for the since deleted post about Palosi's husband, the rest is fine with me.
I think the bigger issue is how all the competitors of Twitter (and by competitors, I mean mainstream media and other social media platforms) are exaggerating everything to minimize Twitter ("hot takes" and layoff outrage without context). If you think about it, if Twitter does become the best place to get objectively true facts, then what's the point of MSM news?
So what appears to be the issue is all the noise being raised right now. It too will pass. Worst case, they'll have to spend a little on advertising and a branding campaign to overcome it.
BTW, I'm not a crazy, conspiricty guy who thinks MSM is the devil. But we've seen what advertising's effects and the drive for clicks can do...
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
IMO I think Elon has done pretty well keeping Tesla alive through this political climate of polarization.
The most important thing to understand is that Covid was politicalized by both sides, one side saying it's no big deal while the other wanted to kill a mosquito with a cannon. Tesla being a scrap company barely making a profit was caught in the cross hairs. The Democrats had absolutely zero problem allowing businesses to die due to Covid as no president gets elected(or re-elected) if the economy tanks.
What would you do if your Tesla during these vulnerable times will die if no one speaks up? Or for your mission, are you willing to break off and join the other side which was way more accommodating? This is what Elon did for his shareholders. The reason why Tsla isn't zero is because Elon went nuclear on his own party when his own party did NOT support the mission just to play politics. This is why WE invested in Tesla because we knew the government of either side are not interested in fixing climate change, and are just using it as a talking point for political gains. Elon doesn't care about this and he will lay with whoever you think is the devil to get his mission accomplished.
The most important thing to understand is that Covid was politicalized by both sides, one side saying it's no big deal while the other wanted to kill a mosquito with a cannon. Tesla being a scrap company barely making a profit was caught in the cross hairs. The Democrats had absolutely zero problem allowing businesses to die due to Covid as no president gets elected(or re-elected) if the economy tanks.
What would you do if your Tesla during these vulnerable times will die if no one speaks up? Or for your mission, are you willing to break off and join the other side which was way more accommodating? This is what Elon did for his shareholders. The reason why Tsla isn't zero is because Elon went nuclear on his own party when his own party did NOT support the mission just to play politics. This is why WE invested in Tesla because we knew the government of either side are not interested in fixing climate change, and are just using it as a talking point for political gains. Elon doesn't care about this and he will lay with whoever you think is the devil to get his mission accomplished.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
In theory, yet in practise it's a real event. Look at this 50-day volume chart from the last S&P 500 rebalancing day: (Sep 16, 2022)
TSLA volume was steady at around 50M/day in the weeks leading up to the rebalancing event. During the week of, volume mostly increased daily, peaking on Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 87M shares.
We can estimate at approximately ~90M extra shares traded total during the rebalancing week, with ~35M extra on Fri, Sep 16.
Also note that after-hrs volume on that Friday was 5.93M shares. Compare that to the previous 'triple-witching' Friday for Options expiries which was Jun 17, 2022: 3.57M shares after-hrs. So this surplus trading of ~2M shares may be attributable to Options trading, and thus should be removed from the weekly total excess in trading ending Fri, Sep 16, 2022.
So call the effect on TSLA volume of the S&P 500 rebalancing in Q3/22 as ~88M shares, with some extra volume being from traders and frontrunners.
Now prediction time: (theories are useless if they aren't predictive). I expect trading volume on Fri, Dec 16, 2022 to be ~95M shares* if TSLA's weight on the Dec index date (2nd Tue of Dec) remains close to today's S&P 500 weight of 1.6394%
#Predict
*Force Majeure events exempted.
Cheers!
I couldn't stand Elon's behavior when the stock was at 400 and said so. Now that it is 200 we have a lot of people questioning that behavior. It reminds me of a political party. that embraces bullshit and lies because they are winning.Well ... your implication about my stock ownership is telling. Yes, for the record I have a lot of TSLA stock ... well into 7 figures. I've made a fortune and unfortunately lost half of it in the last year ... but still well into the 7 figures. The fact that I'm a shareholder entitles me to have a say and the fact that I got in early and put a lot of money into a company that could have easily failed gives me the right to say and do what I want. SO basically .. thanks for your advice ... but I COULD NOT care less what you have to say.
And .. I'm still long and still sick of Elon's behavior. This narrative that shareholders don't have a right to question the CEO's behavior is cult like.
Edited: Grammer
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
This was an example illustrating the difference between thinking "First Principles" and "No Principles", correct?
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Tesla is a corporation. It does not have an operating agreement.
It's certificate of incorporation was most recently updated by the proxy statement soliciting the vote for the split (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459022024064/tsla-def14a_20220804.htm). You can read it in full there.
While you are right that some Delaware corporations can create special statements of purpose and include them in their Certificate, Tesla has not, so the default rules apply.
That means that the CEO's (and the Board's) primary fiduciary duty is to the shareholders (it's more complicated than that but that's the subject of a whole lot of corporate law).
The obvious fiduciary duty that is implicated is the duty of loyalty (i.e., the CEO is supposed to be dedicate his time to the corporation). The board long ago addressed that (and probably continues to do so with each new outside project) given his multiple business interests.
However, if the media reports of Tesla engineers working at Twitter are accurate, then there is also a corporate waste problem (again, this is more nuanced, but it's easier to characterize this way). Quite literally, Tesla's assets (those engineers) are being wasted on an endeavor that only serves the business purposes of one director and shareholder of Tesla.
At the very least, Twitter needs to be paying Tesla for the use of those engineers (in the same way Tesla likely needs to pay SpaceX when they get help there). Not big dollars presumably, but still an issue.
But, given the problem of hiring quality software engineers at Tesla and its all-out focus on a huge backlog of software tasks, I'm not even sure money can compensate Tesla.
At the very least, the independent members of the board need to be discussing this and confronting Elon on this point. At worst, a plaintiffs' firm is going to consider a derivative class action on this very issue.
(I think SpaceX is very different btw, because Tesla and SpaceX clearly get help from each other -- there is no evidence that anything done at Twitter will help Tesla's engineering efforts).
Tesla supercharging to other EVs in Australia over the next few months
thedriven.io
Non-Tesla EVs to get access to government funded Tesla Supercharger sites
Tesla will open up at least parts of its SuperCharging network to non-Tesla EVs as part of a funding deal with the NSW government.
thedriven.io
Do you actually think one side is not more interested in fixing climate change than the other? Like, really? I must be very, very misinformed…
We cant treat Elon like MAGA treats Trump
One side is like "climate catastrophe if we don't fix it" but does everything in their power to limit businesses from becoming too big, from becoming a business, or from getting too wealthy fixing what needs to be fixed.
The other side is like "climate change isn't real" but does everything in their power to empower businesses.
So yeah, everyone is just talk talk talk talk talk talk talk. I used to think the left was interested in climate change but after the way they act in the past 3-4 years sure doesn't feel like it. Everyday you see how they can't even mention Tesla and talk up gas car companies for making a prototype. They feel more like them environmentalist trying to block Tesla at Berlin.
Tesla will fix climate change, and doing so will make shareholders rich and the companies gigantic. If the left can't get on board with the second part then how serious are they or are we just going to play politics all day while the world burns?
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Any irony here in the fact that if any member posted what Elon tweeted the other day it would get banned?
One up day in the stock and all is forgiven.
The mob may rule for a short time, but it can’t overturn massive free cash flow generation
forever.
Ultimately “the business of America is business.”
FCF is the holy grail of business.
The mob may rule for a short time, but it can’t overturn massive free cash flow generation
forever.
Ultimately “the business of America is business.”
FCF is the holy grail of business.
Wow, thanks for sharing! Great example of the learning capabilities of AI.
Krugerrand
Meow
You do realize that life isn’t static, right? That people can change and should change as they move through life and everything and everyone around them also change. A decision today may need to become a different decision tomorrow for innumerable reasons.Love the consistency
Certainly no downside possible for Tesla, right?
Lindell Admits MyPillow Can't Get Back $65M in Revenue Lost Over Trump Ties
"We're going to lose that," the Trump loyalist said, but noted that his company is looking at alternatives to shore up revenue going forward.www.newsweek.com
Being able to shift directions and not hold to old paradigms is EXACTLY why Tesla has survived and flourished and made you richer. The examples within Elon’s companies are vast. It is one of Elon’s greatest strengths.
Sometimes the direction, in hindsight, was a mistake or not ideal, most times not because even a detour can provide value. The ultimate beauty of fluidity is that a wrong direction can quickly and easily switch to a better direction.
You pointing out what he said back in April and comparing it to today doesn’t strengthen your argument against him at all. It simply shows your rigidity in thought compared to his. He’s willing to be open to other possibilities and change his mind, you’re not.
thesmokingman
Active Member
^^And context. Elon Musk, "I" and not Elon Musk, "Twitter suggests..."
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Literally? Consider the role Twitter has played in Tesla's "marketing" in the past. Over the years the positive effects from Tesla-related content posted on Twitter has been seen as a boon, particularly for a company that has no traditional advertising in play.
Will this positive effect for Tesla stand a better chance to increase or to decrease with the recent change?
Do you know for certain that Twitter is not paying for the use of those people?
Do you think that the operation of Tesla is in a precarious position, despite the long string of record-setting quarters and growth?
How, exactly, are you measuring the needed compensation?
What evidence do you have that the absence of some staff prevents the remaining staff from remaining focused on the software tasks? (Did FSD crumble into a smoking heap when Andrej left?)
Do you think that the board did not discuss the potential benefits vs. costs before authorizing the deployment of Tesla staff to help with Twitter?
The evidence is the long-running benefit that Twitter has provided for Tesla's brand. You write as though engineering alone has the ability to help spread the word most effectively.
There may be additional aspects of enhancing a symbiotic relationship between Twitter and Tesla which have gone unnoticed by some.
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