Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[wipster]

Right? I feel like I'm not the only one who thinks the SR is going away.

I see no good reason for the SR to go away. If it makes Teslas more affordable to the masses, all the better! And as I posted earlier, the Supercharger network makes the 267 mile range
of both 3 and Y SR's quite doable IMHO. Along with making BEV's to begin with, deploying Superchargers is one of the more brilliant moves Tesla has made. When you buy a Tesla you also buy in to fueling stations available worldwide... and in the near future on Mars and the Moon as well!

 

[Ogre]

I see no good reason for the SR to go away. If it makes Teslas more affordable to the masses, all the better! And as I posted earlier, the Supercharger network makes the 267 mile range
of both 3 and Y SR's quite doable IMHO. Along with making BEV's to begin with, deploying Superchargers is one of the more brilliant moves Tesla has made. When you buy a Tesla you also buy in to fueling stations available worldwide... and in the near future on Mars and the Moon as well!

The IRA incentive might put us in a place where to the consumer the cars are priced the same or the LR is less expensive.

Demand for the SR may very well drop off quite a bit if consumers can get an LR for the same price.

But if Tesla has supply, giving the commercial buyers a lower priced product makes it’s own sense.

In the end I think Tesla keeps or nukes the M3SR based on battery supply, not whether it qualifies for the incentive.

 

[wipster]

The IRA incentive might put us in a place where to the consumer the cars are priced the same or the LR is less expensive.

Demand for the SR may very well drop off quite a bit if consumers can get an LR for the same price.

But if Tesla has supply, giving the commercial buyers a lower priced product makes it’s own sense.

In the end I think Tesla keeps or nukes the M3SR based on battery supply, not whether it qualifies for the incentive.

We'll know in a month or two. I trust Tesla to make the right decision.

 

[Buckminster]

i am not a prophet

But this is your second coming...

 

[EVNow]

Ford is reasonably competent but quite very late to the transition.

You don’t remember Focus EV ?

 

[Singuy]

I see no good reason for the SR to go away. If it makes Teslas more affordable to the masses, all the better! And as I posted earlier, the Supercharger network makes the 267 mile range
of both 3 and Y SR's quite doable IMHO. Along with making BEV's to begin with, deploying Superchargers is one of the more brilliant moves Tesla has made. When you buy a Tesla you also buy in to fueling stations available worldwide... and in the near future on Mars and the Moon as well!

The main concern is that Tesla may end up reducing the SR+ further after the tax credit expires Q1 just to make room for the LR. Then the SR becomes a real drag on margins.

 

[insaneoctane]

.... but had Tesla not needed the price cuts, the same damage would have been done, because the same amount of their sales would have been displaced. That’s because Tesla was already maxing out production growth.

I agree with most of your statement, but think that the fact that Tesla cut prices is the difference. When EV prices were all so inflated, it allowed all low volume manufacturers to hide their unpreparedness and bleed slowly with minimal losses as they scramble to pull their heads out... But now that Tesla has boldly cut all prices, because their margins uniquely allow for it, it's a death blow.

 

[SmokyPeat]

The main concern is that Tesla may end up reducing the SR+ further after the tax credit expires Q1 just to make room for the LR. Then the SR becomes a real drag on margins.

Tesla really needs to fast-track some domestic LFP battery production. Then they can keep the LFP SR Model 3, and maybe introduce a Model Y SR w/ LFP without worrying about a drag on margins.

 

[chrsk]

You don’t remember Focus EV ?

Did you try it?

What an absolute joke of a car. They took the original Focus, filled the trunk with batteries and that's it!

 

[NicoV]

The Dutch TTF natural gas price just dropped below 60 euro/MWh. That’s the lowest price in 12 months. Deflation.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Lots of BS protests on twitter too. I saw some accounts crying about losing value on their Tesla but see no indication they are a Tesla owner.

Hopefully not already posted, but headline<>article

BYD least affected but still affected.

I want to know the brands MOST affected!

BYD is among the brands least affected by the surge of interest in Tesla cars. However, a BYD salesperson noted that many buyers with reservations came to the store to cancel their orders and transfer to Tesla. The most affected models are the BYD Seal and BYD Han, which compete directly with the Tesla Model 3.

Edit: quoted wrong post - meant to quote driveteslacanada quote that was replied to Tesla China’s price cuts causing mass buyers deflection from BYD

 

[Cobbler]

Hopefully not already posted, but headline<>article

BYD least affected but still affected.

I want to know the brands MOST affected!


Edit: quoted wrong post - meant to quote driveteslacanada quote that was replied to Tesla China’s price cuts causing mass buyers deflection from BYD

BYD offering in Europe is NOT competitive to Tesla at all.
They do offer a very expensive SUV, Tang, but pricing starts at 72000€. People look at other brands in that price category.
The Hang is way too expensive when compared to the M3 LR

Even the cheapest BYD here, the Atto3, is 2000€ more expensive then the superior M3 RWD
BYD will have to lower prices in Europe if they want to stay competitive.

 

[MC3OZ]

The IRA incentive might put us in a place where to the consumer the cars are priced the same or the LR is less expensive.

Demand for the SR may very well drop off quite a bit if consumers can get an LR for the same price.

But if Tesla has supply, giving the commercial buyers a lower priced product makes it’s own sense.

In the end I think Tesla keeps or nukes the M3SR based on battery supply, not whether it qualifies for the incentive.

I don't see any reason Tesla can't make a 4680 battery pack for the SR, there are 3 chemistries which could work, I don't see a reason to rule any chemistry out.

A pack made of 4680 cells made by Tesla works for the IRA.

The interesting question is whether the Model 3 Highland has a 4680 structural pack.

 

[UkNorthampton]

BYD offering in Europe is NOT competitive to Tesla at all.
They do offer a very expensive SUV, Tang, but pricing starts at 72000€. People look at other brands in that price category.
The Hang is way too expensive when compared to the M3 LR

Even the cheapest BYD here, the Atto3, is 2000€ more expensive then the superior M3 RWD
BYD will have to lower prices in Europe if they want to stay competitive.

Interesting to see prices - do you know a EU market (or even for single Euro-currency country) good site that lists Tesla & competitors & allows sorting/filtering on criteria? Edit: did it in the end

I'd looked at some of BYD's European prices before (I think Mathias Fons did some Danish pricing comparisons). I'd assumed prices were starting higher, with higher trims & then would reduce over time once they had a feel for sustainable prices, delivered first waves of reservations and then started selling the lower trims. My recollection was that BYD wasn't competitive even at that time in Denmark. After Tesla's price drops, definitely not.

My point however was the the body of the article stated that BYD was one of the LEAST affected in China - so I wondered if less well known competitors were most affected, or whether ones I'd heard of eg Xpeng, Nio were the ones MOST in trouble.

Unfortunately EV database doesn't list BYD yet - I find it useful to select 2 or 3 brands & compare by sorting on efficiency, price/range or price.

For Hyundai/Kia/Tesla - cheapest & most expensive for price/distance with Teslas mixed in. This excludes additional options, and doesn't capture preferences, Supercharger usefulness & much more. I think Tesla is well placed in this list as the only H/K above Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD are older Kona/Niro & brand new (maybe not delivered yet) Ioniq 6 two wheel drive. Ioniq 5 & Kia EV6 seem worse price/range options.

EV Database

A comprehensive overview of all electric vehicles in the UK. Search and compare by range, make, model and price.

ev-database.org

or cheatsheet if preferred - EV Database

Edit: By taking UK out of URL, I got BYD and Tesla together. BYD are uncompetitive, with only 60kWh Atto 3 being cheaper by 2-3000 Euros (as you said).

EV Database

A complete overview of all electric vehicles in Europe. Search and compare by range, make, model and price.

ev-database.org

 

[nativewolf]

I took issue with the claim that the Ford charging experience was as good as a Model 3, just a little slow. A slow charging experience is what makes people reluctant to adopt EV's and the Lightning at 150 kW max is not "as good as a Model 3" at 250 kW max. Especially when considering a vehicle that is half as efficient needs twice the charging to speed to equal the number of miles it adds per hour.

I took special pains to point out I was *not* crapping on the decision to buy a Lightning because the Cybertruck was not even available yet. So, I would appreciate it if you would avoid mischaracterizing what I said. The discussion was about charging speeds, not crapping on purchase decisions or how the trucks compared on all features.

The higher end Lightning’s charge at 250 or 350 or what have you. I have the lowest price one I could buy because I did not want to buy a petrol truck and Tesla failed to be able to sell me one and of the Ford lightning this is what I could afford.

Another neat thing ....outlets everywhere. awesomen for someone that works. Diesel tank uses an ac pump which is more powerful than the pump wired into the old truck wiring harness. Outlets lock out or not if truck is off- small stuff like that makes me realize they had real workers giving input.

I do worry that the CT might lack that insight. Just creating Highway princesses. Already I am worried about bed height and tailgate height.

 

[MABMAB]

The higher end Lightning’s charge at 250 or 350 or what have you. I have the lowest price one I could buy because I did not want to buy a petrol truck and Tesla failed to be able to sell me one and of the Ford lightning this is what I could afford.

Another neat thing ....outlets everywhere. awesomen for someone that works. Diesel tank uses an ac pump which is more powerful than the pump wired into the old truck wiring harness. Outlets lock out or not if truck is off- small stuff like that makes me realize they had real workers giving input.

I do worry that the CT might lack that insight. Just creating Highway princesses. Already I am worried about bed height and tailgate height.

outlets everywhere? Do you need more than one? Or are some of these “real workers” too lazy to go around the vehicle to plug in?

not sure what a highway princess is? Is that kind of like all the work trucks on the road are not used for work these days?

what about the adjustable bed height worries you in CT?

is there some part of Tsla vehicles now that allows access when locked?

 

[UkNorthampton]

The higher end Lightning’s charge at 250 or 350 or what have you. I have the lowest price one I could buy because I did not want to buy a petrol truck and Tesla failed to be able to sell me one and of the Ford lightning this is what I could afford.

Another neat thing ....outlets everywhere. awesomen for someone that works. Diesel tank uses an ac pump which is more powerful than the pump wired into the old truck wiring harness. Outlets lock out or not if truck is off- small stuff like that makes me realize they had real workers giving input.

I do worry that the CT might lack that insight. Just creating Highway princesses. Already I am worried about bed height and tailgate height.

More EVs, the better. One ICE displaced. Hope you and many others in many industries find more ways to switch until ICE is truly niche.

I hope that with competition over capabilities, EVs become overwhelmingly the best choice in most situations.

 

[Cattledog]

FWIW, pretty stable in Europe today, 122s.

Tesla Inc (TL0) Stock Price & News - Google Finance

Get the latest Tesla Inc (TL0) real-time quote, historical performance, charts, and other financial information to help you make more informed trading and investment decisions.

www.google.com

 

[Christine69420]

Lots of car carriers filling up at Giga Berlin this Saturday:

and even more waiting their turn:

Pics from Tobias Lindh's latest video:

 

[replicant]

FWIW, pretty stable in Europe today, 122s.

Tesla Inc (TL0) Stock Price & News - Google Finance

Get the latest Tesla Inc (TL0) real-time quote, historical performance, charts, and other financial information to help you make more informed trading and investment decisions.

www.google.com

TL0 (in Europe) is a trailing TSLA indicator, due to the timezone and market opening hours differences. It's best to follow TSLA, with pre-market data if need be.