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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Threads of the day:
Analyst TSLA Price Targets
All discussion of Rivian Automotive
Project Highland (Investor impact etc.) Not much news...
Supercharger Revenue
The demise of the OEMs Bolt no longer
Analyst TSLA Price Targets
All discussion of Rivian Automotive
Project Highland (Investor impact etc.) Not much news...
Supercharger Revenue
The demise of the OEMs Bolt no longer
You are giving media some fine click bait material. You will soon be contacted by Laura from CNBS.
Not sure why folks would down thumb your post. Look you don’t need to justify your investment choice. Just because I wouldn’t buy Rivian doesn’t mean someone else that does is wrong. Seems like you have folks trying to convince you that it’s a bad choice. If you’re long term I think things will be fine.@winfield100
It's Guitar Player .... professional musician by trade so my whole life has been a gamble
AND, I didn't sell my entire position ... in fact a very small amount. 20% of my IRA, we have most of our TSLA in a larger trading (non IRA) account. So really probably sold about 5% of our Tesla position.
Yes TSLA has the lion's share of the market but even TSLA has said that it fully expects market share to drop considerably as the larger market expands. Most analysts expect TSLA's market share to drop to under 30% in the coming years and it's totally fine as the larger market is going to expand so even 30% will be a lot of cars.
With regards to your charging network, Elon just gave RIVIAN a nice gift by opening them up and RIVIAN responded in kind by adopting TSLA's charging standard. Problem solved.
Thanks for including the Space X stuff, yes Elon and company did a fine job. I'll be nice and not include the myriad of issues with the bird company ... he's not perfect.
Once again, I mean no disrespect to TSLA or it's investors ... like I said I've got well over 5 million in shares (not options) ... I want TSLA to do well and I'm in the Cathie Wood camp that sees FSD taking TSLA to new heights but it's not going to happen in the next few months so I'll make a little side investment.
The real question is what kind of music do you play? And more importantly what kind of guitar? I’m a wanna be player, Strats and Parker. Blues, jazz and 70-90’s soul.
It's ok to have diversified investments other than $TSLA, but if you do, don't post them on here or you will get
Well, those fortunate enough to have SpaceX investments can probably brag as much as they like without drawing fire.
And doesn't that make them the perfect target for shorts??
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
All I've been constantly reading about is Tesla's "price war"....I originally thought it was just due to MM bias/spin. Now, this says Elon actually signed something? Correct me if I am wrong, but Tesla's "price war" is simply price elasticity and market conditions. Tesla has to adjust their prices to ensure that all their increasing production gets sold. You seek the maximum margin that moves all your product...isn't that way you're supposed to run a business? In the current economy, at Tesla's current production rates, 30%+ margins aren't possible. This is not a "war", it's common sense.
I have done everything from touring to musical theater gigs .... pop, rock, jazz you name it. Gotta be versatile to make a living in Los Angeles. With regards to what kind of guitar? My guitar addiction is out of control at this point, it's a combination of guitar lust I've had my whole life and the unbelievable position I find myself in of having the means to buy them, it's a dangerous combo.
Sorry for the thread derailment, I'll keep most of the (company which will not be named) out of future posts. That said, I really am a HUGE Tesla supporter with Solar Panels, 2 Cars and stock. I really think all humans will owe Tesla and Elon a huge debt of gratitude for what they have accomplished in regards to getting the world off of ICE.
Cheers to the longs and let's hope 300 gets here soon!
For everyone who sees the RVN chance as worthwhile the best logic I can find is that with Amazon and other delivery vehicles functioning well the could have a chance to penetrate UPS, FedEx or others and USPS is a good prospect too once they eliminate DeJoy's self-dealing. Those are speculations, but plausible.
For consumer products they do have serious engineering problems from the perspective of manufacturing and longevity. Will they succeed in fixing those issues?
Perhaps, but the gigantic flaw was starting with Too Much Money so they never learned financial disciple. The sell their vehicles, it appear, for less than their manufacturing cost. Tesla even in the beginning never made that fatal error.
Honestly I understand why people choose to put money in RVN. They value image more than financial strength.
As for Tesla is similar spots early on: Actually not, they were speculative, zero doubt, but they always managed to have all variable costs covered in purchase price, and never sold for less than the cost to build and deliver the product.
That financial discipline allowed Tesla to survive, with major contribution from Toyota and then Daimler. Both commissioned Tesla to power their own technology demonstrators RAV4 and B class EV's.
RVN really never has had to struggle, so can burn cash without short term consequence.
While we are almost all TSLA long, most of us are also perpetually cautious and question our investment premises. Perhaps that is why we have perpetual concern that TSLA does not fall into hubris or over-confidence.
For me every single investment decision makes me fairly anal-compulsive about risks. I have yet to invest in any other BEV competitor because none have yet had the combination of manufacturing efficiency obsession, obsessive attention to Free Cash Flow and distribution system efficiency. When someone else has that I'll be there. The consequence of those criteria is that my portfolio is highly concentrated in a handful of unusual companies. I don't worry about that because they all are standing well over years.
Perhaps oddly two of my pharmaceutical choices looked hopeless to many. Like TSLA they were dismissed. Both were so disciplined that they ended out succeeding in impossible quests.
To do the impossible demands very, very tight discipline, pursuing goals with rigid attention to financial and operating discipline. The lessons of SpaceX and Tesla are both stellar examples.
Others will too much money and too little discipline invariably fail. It's strange that comfortable finance diminishes discipline, but it seems to be an absolute rule.
I'll be pleased if somebody knows exceptions.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Excellent point. We do know now that Giga Berlin has a pack assembly facility inside the Battery building which builds 2170 packs. I have a link if you need one.
Cheers!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
This news of the China agreement seems to me as if Tesla and BYD were setting an example as the adults in the room. It was all the little guys who were using unsavory tactics trying to knock each other out of the game. Tesla signing lends credence to the agreement with respect to the intent.
Nothing I've read indicated in any way that Tesla's market activity in China was targeted by this agreement, despite the media spin. Quite the contrary, they are more likely setting the example to follow for the ones that the CCP have targeted.
Nothing I've read indicated in any way that Tesla's market activity in China was targeted by this agreement, despite the media spin. Quite the contrary, they are more likely setting the example to follow for the ones that the CCP have targeted.
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@winfield100
It's Guitar Player .... professional musician by trade so my whole life has been a gamble
AND, I didn't sell my entire position ... in fact a very small amount. 20% of my IRA, we have most of our TSLA in a larger trading (non IRA) account. So really probably sold about 5% of our Tesla position.
Yes TSLA has the lion's share of the market but even TSLA has said that it fully expects market share to drop considerably as the larger market expands. Most analysts expect TSLA's market share to drop to under 30% in the coming years and it's totally fine as the larger market is going to expand so even 30% will be a lot of cars.
With regards to your charging network, Elon just gave RIVIAN a nice gift by opening them up and RIVIAN responded in kind by adopting TSLA's charging standard. Problem solved.
Thanks for including the Space X stuff, yes Elon and company did a fine job. I'll be nice and not include the myriad of issues with the bird company ... he's not perfect.
Once again, I mean no disrespect to TSLA or it's investors ... like I said I've got well over 5 million in shares (not options) ... I want TSLA to do well and I'm in the Cathie Wood camp that sees FSD taking TSLA to new heights but it's not going to happen in the next few months so I'll make a little side investment.
If you are Lindsey Buckingham, then I forgive you.
MountainRatMat
Member
I see multiple every day and lately more of the SUV's than the Trucks. My neighbor has an R1T one and my friends a mile away has an R1T.
I also live in Southern California near the Rivian design center but still seeing them in increasing numbers.
To be fair to Tesla, I see multiple Teslas at any moment I am driving, a couple orders of magnitude more Tesla's on a daily basis than Rivians.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
The difference in RIVN vs. TSLA I think (and yes I think this is relevant in this thread as it helps reinforce why I think Tesla is a good investment) is that:
With Tesla, they didn't have huge financial backing from the beginning. By struggling with cash at the beginning, they were forced to operate in a very lean manner. As the company matured, that "do more with less" attitude was infused into their company DNA and remains to this day.
With Rivian, *because* they had so much financial backing from the beginning, they had less focus on financial discipline. There is quite a risk that this lack of financial discipline is now threaded into their DNA and will be hard to shake.
Just as Wayne Gretzky skated to where the puck was going to be, you shouldn't look at overall current finances but the *direction* of those finances to determine worth as an investment.
Having said that, I'm stupid so take it for what it's worth.
With Tesla, they didn't have huge financial backing from the beginning. By struggling with cash at the beginning, they were forced to operate in a very lean manner. As the company matured, that "do more with less" attitude was infused into their company DNA and remains to this day.
With Rivian, *because* they had so much financial backing from the beginning, they had less focus on financial discipline. There is quite a risk that this lack of financial discipline is now threaded into their DNA and will be hard to shake.
Just as Wayne Gretzky skated to where the puck was going to be, you shouldn't look at overall current finances but the *direction* of those finances to determine worth as an investment.
Having said that, I'm stupid so take it for what it's worth.
No. That looks like the old 72kW Urban Superchargers. The V4 posts, which are currently only in Europe, look like this:
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yeah, the "Tesla-starts-Price-War-in-China" narrative was largely the creation of (REUTERS) media. They pushed:
- 'Tesla will cut prices in January, so DON'T BUY in December' -- attacking year-end sales
- 'Competition beating Tesla in China' -- BYD was channel stuffing like CRAZY (still is)
- 'Tesla is cutting production in December' -- TWICE by roto-Reuters, when it didn't happen the 1st time
Later, when the IRA was implemented (poorly) in the USA, Tesla was forced to make a large, sudden price cut in the 5-seater Model Y (the biggest seller). Tesla acted boldly, and of course had to adjust prices world-wide which it did (this actually started in China about a week before the USA cuts).
Now, Tesla's margins have bounced back due to their relentless focus on cost-cutting, and the normalization of commodity prices after the inflationary spike of 2022H2.
Bears hate this. This is good.
Cheers!
Starlink is not rendering undersea cables useless. It could never handle the throughput of modern cables. It’s a backup in case China invades and destroys undersea cables.This is f'ing wild. Starlink will render undersea Internet cables useless, if this happens. How would you bet against TSLA when he's doing stuff like this?
Taiwan needs SpaceX’s Starlink or something like it in case China invades. Here’s why it’s looking beyond Elon Musk
Taiwan would suffer a near-total internet blackout if China cut its undersea cables, and SpaceX has the solution.fortune.com
That said, it is plausible that starlink with sat to sat links might have lower latency than undersea cables. Not meaningfully lower for regular use but meaningful enough for applications like high frequency trading.
Looks the same as the V4 chargers recently installed in The Netherlands.
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