Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[AndrewZ]

Inflation can’t be the reason the CT price is higher when I think literally every single Tesla model and trim is cheaper today than it was before COVID — there might be one or two exceptions, but that’s a remarkable stat.

The CT price is so much higher because Tesla knows there is a whack of people who will pay the premium and they have a fiduciary duty to gather as much revenue as possible for shareholders. Eventually that enthusiast group will be exhausted, prices will come down, and there will even be a time when CTs don’t draw crowds of onlookers because this is a mass production vehicle and they will gradually become more common.

 

[mongo]

Tesla lost money for well over a decade and took 18 years to make a profit. No doubt the market (what I'm getting at) is totally different now from 10 years ago. Rivian probably does need a financial backer like Lucid (Saudi's).

I'm not trying to fear monger the CT at all actually. I just think there is a limit to the number of buyers out that for that fairly unconventional truck. We'll of course, see after a couple years as to what happens with it.

Tesla:
Incorporated: 2003
Started production: February 2008
Vehicle gross margin profitable: all quarters save one since 2011 (possibly earlier)
First quarterly profit: Q1 2013
First annual profit: 2020

Cybertruck is also a great SUV.

 

[Musskiah]

The return on the megapacktories are enormous. Only $200M to build something in Shanghai that churns out $10B+ in revenue annually once ramped!

 

[Musskiah]

Tesla:

Incorporated: 20

Started production: February 20

Vehicle gross margin profitable: all quarters save one since 2011 (possibly earlie

First quarterly profit: Q1 20

First annual profit: 20

Slow clap

 

[GhostSkater]

It also is significantly slower, has 160 miles less of range, and is smaller.

The CT simply cost Tesla far more to build than they anticipated. That includes R&D and presses/etc.

Edit: Steer-by-wire and 48v were surprises, but Elon said it would be able to crab walk like a month after release.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794066910323093516

 

[dl003]

Little cousin. I was shocked to find out the CEOs are family. What are the chances.

Something magical in the rice.

 

[uscbucsfan]

AWD has more range than estimated at reveal. Beast has less.

The AWD was 50k, so I meant his price comparison. Really the AWD and Beast are completely different than the original options with completely different pricing, but again, the CT just cost more to create.

 

[Speedr117]

The AWD was 50k, so I meant his price comparison. Really the AWD and Beast are completely different than the original options with completely different pricing, but again, the CT just cost more to create.

And a dollar could buy a lot more in 2019 than today!

 

[uscbucsfan]

And a dollar could buy a lot more in 2019 than today!

I'm not discounting inflation. My only point was that it's less about Tesla gouging or being dishonest and more about 1. The CT being difficult/expensive to make at first 2. pricing to demand.

People have the option to not spend 100k on a FS.

 

[Joe F]

Reserved the Tri motor: Range for towing, bigger bed (changed house being built to a 25 foot deep garage for it) loved the tailgate ramp, now gone, and the 500 mile range without having to cripple the bed with a battery pack due to the now shorter length robbing battery space.

While disappointed, I'm still going to order one, only not the Beast, and torn between Foundation vs waiting till next year simply due to current $TSLA price.

 

[Zero CO2]

Reserved the Tri motor: Range for towing, bigger bed (changed house being built to a 25 foot deep garage for it) loved the tailgate ramp, now gone, and the 500 mile range without having to cripple the bed with a battery pack due to the now shorter length robbing battery space.

While disappointed, I'm still going to order one, only not the Beast, and torn between Foundation vs waiting till next year simply due to current $TSLA price.

every day you wait is a day w/o the best vehicle you can buy ... not to mention the insane amount of word of mouth promotion of Tesla products (to help TSLA)... 90 % of people love this... "where were you when you saw your first CT in the wild" will be a question that people will be able to answer years from now ...the attention is next level ... to the point of being annoying

 

[Joe F]

every day you wait is a day w/o the best vehicle you can buy ... not to mention the insane amount of word of mouth promotion of Tesla products (to help TSLA)... 90 % of people love this... "where were you when you saw your first CT in the wild" will be a question that people will be able to answer years from ...the attention is next level ... to the point of being annoying

Yeah, I know. Went through it with my Dec 2016 S. Got to be annoying at times trying to get out of a supermarket with a trunk full of groceries and cold/frozen food in coolers.

On the up side, I could put a mini fridge in the back and not have to worry about hot days defrosting food. Hmmm, a spouse selling point...

 

[Zero CO2]

Yeah, I know. Went through it with my Dec 2016 S. Got to be annoying at times trying to get out of a supermarket with a trunk full of groceries and cold/frozen food in coolers.

On the up side, I could put a mini fridge in the back and not have to worry about hot days defrosting food. Hmmm, a spouse selling point...

Model S does not even come close to the amount of attention the CT gets ... Model S looked like other high end cars porsche .. etc...

 

[Musskiah]

I'm so FSD addicted I refuse to take delivery until FSD is running on CT. Who drives anymore anyway? This is 2024. Pick: a human or AI chauffeur. Plebs steer steering wheels.

 

[FastEddieB]

The CT price is so much higher because Tesla knows there is a whack of people who will pay the premium and they have a fiduciary duty to gather as much revenue as possible for shareholders.

Of course they need to maximize profits. But sometimes the way they chase short term profits can alienate potential customers and negatively affect long term prospects.

But it’s a balancing act, and time will tell how successful their strategy proves to be overall.

 

[Opus BC fan]

Model S does not even come close to the amount of attention the CT gets ... Model S looked like other high end cars porsche .. etc...

OT
It did in 2012-2013 when I took my P85 delivery.
The questions from the crowds: (1) who makes it? (2) How much gas does it use?
It was 6 months before I saw another S in the wild...

 

[AndrewZ]

Of course they need to maximize profits. But sometimes the way they chase short term profits can alienate potential customers and negatively affect long term prospects.

But it’s a balancing act, and time will tell how successful their strategy proves to be overall.

Elon has mentioned before how Tesla being a public company can sometimes shoehorn it into making decisions that are excessively focused on the short term.

I’d hope people buying now are aware of the retained value hit that is assuredly coming, just like people buying at the height of the COVID car market craziness should have been aware that the price hikes weren’t sustainable — though most normal people don’t track this stuff like we do, so who knows if they saw prices shoot up.


I mean even amid inflation to underlying cost or manufacturing complexity (that should have been in the original numbers), it’s the market that ultimately determines price and it’s on the company to manage costs to make it profitable. CTs cost what they do right now because people are paying it, and the price will come down when people stop paying it.

 

[DarkandStormy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794066910323093516

Interesting he doesn't bother with how badly they screwed up the tri motor.

Also slightly better specs (worse payload though) for ~2x the price is not a good look.

 

[dl003]

Interesting he doesn't bother with how badly they screwed up the tri motor.

Also slightly better specs (worse payload though) for ~2x the price is not a good look.

I mean
Demand < Supply and TSLA cuts price: "omg gross margin is crap"
Demand > Supply and TSLA raises price: "omg skinning customers. Not a good look"

Can people make up their mind?

 

[lafrisbee]

Tesla:
Incorporated: 2003
Started production: February 2008
Vehicle gross margin profitable: all quarters save one since 2011 (possibly earlier)
First quarterly profit: Q1 2013
First annual profit: 2020

Cybertruck is also a great SUV.

"Cybertruck is also a great SUV."
If you left out "also" I could have understood your last sentence. Cybertruck is a truck in name only. Elon had all the freedom and resources to make whatever vehicle he wanted. And he did. And then to try and capture the huge Pick-up segment of the market he named it cyberTRUCK, hoping the truck buyers would look at it.
But from the first day of design he was just trying to make an odd-looking Kickass SUV.
I'd buy any of the other big 3's electric pickups over the cyberturd if they had FSD (or the future chance at FSD). And with the midgate on the Silverado they might get my money even if I do have to drive it.
We can hope the cybercab is getting Elon's attention, and FSD will be level IV...V.