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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Eventually once the likes of TRP and Fidelity and all these folks are out, this will leave only the most committed people, who are basically ok with going down with the ship in the worst case and/or have a truly long-term view of their holdings, like 2025 or longer. I don't know exactly where that point is in either time or stock price but at some point just investor selection will dampen the volatility. The one caveat is that Bailey Gifford or Capitol Group may start selling, even committed money managers can be forced to exit by management if they think the fund family reputation will be crushed by something. If that were to happen I think low $100s could happen before earnings. If earnings is not strong forget everything I said, then I have no idea what could happen.
Or every time the price drops, fund managers see more relative value. The price is becoming more and more attractive every day.

The problem is that you an embedded implication that the company is near worthless in the short term - which i disagree with.
 
Until they decide not to. If GF3 has excess capacity - not likely, but who knows - and Fremont gets overcrowded - producing S, X, 3 and Y at the same time - Tesla could decide to start shipping SR's not just to the Asian region but also to Europe. We buy Apples made in China, so why not Teslas. The margins would be better, the shipping costs probably the same.

If we end up with Europe having tariffs against the US because of Trump, and not having tariffs against China, then Tesla will certainly ship Chinese Teslas to Europe. However, I would hope that come 2021, which is probably the earliest point at which the Chinese Gigafactory will be able to exceed East Asian demand, the idiot tariff war will end.
 
Oh come on. A simple exponential projection is actually sufficient to have been correct on BEV adoption in general (meaning worldwide) for the last decade. And for solar adoption, too. For wind adoption the exponential *might possibly* be flattening out now, but it's too soon to be sure.

(There's something to be said for simple models with very few variables to tweak -- it's harder to accidentally put your subconscious biases into them. Jhm has talked about this over on the Shorting Oil thread.)

All the other evidence is supporting.

Predicting TSLA is of course harder. I didn't say I made *detailed* predictions. :) I said I had a ton of knowledge and was therefore able to make some reasonably accurate predictions. They're not detailed. "Will do better in a recession than an index filled with fossil fuel stocks" is a prediction, but not a detailed prediction (that's one I have made).

I'm also predicting fairly near-term human extinction (the evidence is pretty strong), but I think people would rather not talk about that. I'd like to avoid it, but the prediction has a strong likelihood.



Yep. Me too -- including the bit about spending most of my time assessing risks. And like you, I could always stop having good results. I can still make some pretty accurate predictions.



Perhaps "forecast" is too strong a word for the sort of accurate predictions I was making regarding Tesla, given their vagueness.
@neroden
BP Statistical Review of World Energy comes out on 6/11 so updated then and _should_ have 2018 data
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cheers
 
Y'know, it feels like Tesla investors (especially longs) are quite altruistic! Let's play a hypothetical. What would you do with the money if Ark Invest's bull case is accurate in 5 years?

For me, I'd invest 10% of my net worth into an education fund in my parent's home state in India.
Aside from just increasing charitable contributions in general, my plan in retirement is to go back and get a law degree and offer free legal counsel to those who need it. my level of holdings would accelerate this by about 10 years if we hit ARK's super bull case.
 
-- Tesla communications remains a big mess. Lots and lots of stuff to go into here.
-- Their infotainment software team sucks badly. Several things to go into here.
-- They are having constant trouble straightening out delivery logistics -- it's taking a long time.
-- They found it a lot harder to ramp up production than expected.
-- They seem to have very poor demand modeling -- I predicted the Q1 drop in orders based on tax credit phaseouts, but apparently they didn't ?!?!
-- If Tesla releases "sleep in your car" robotaxis, does not get big liability insurance from a third party, and someone dies, Tesla is toast. I *hope* they have the sense to buy the liability insurance before they start advertising "sleep in your car".

That and it seems like this car costs 10k more to make than it should.
 
That and it seems like this car costs 10k more to make than it should.
Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I would be worried if the teardowns were saying that it SHOULD cost as much as it currently does.

Tesla is well known for being able to reduce manufacturing costs; it's something they have a track record of doing successfully in the past. If teardown specialists think it should cost less, Tesla can eventually figure out how to get those savings. All the leaks have said that the production lines are still having constant changes (obviously improvements). Might take them until 2020 to get there, but they can deal with that.
 
Watching Apple WWDC, you feel the stark difference between Apple and Tesla marketing. With Apple, you feel like there's a bunch of superstars at the company, whereas with Tesla, you feel like Elon is the only person doing anything at Tesla.

Autonomy day was a decent step departure from that, but it was a bit too geeky and doesn't connect with the layperson.
 
Y'know, it feels like Tesla investors (especially longs) are quite altruistic! Let's play a hypothetical. What would you do with the money if Ark Invest's bull case is accurate in 5 years?

For me, I'd invest 10% of my net worth into an education fund in my parent's home state in India.

Let me dissolve you of the notion that TSLA longs are all altruistic.

Every last dime I'd make off the TSLA shares will be going into a Tesla purchase once I go back to the states. If Ark is right, then I can get a much better Tesla, and/or lower loan for it. I don't have enough stocks just yet to get a Roadster even if each stock goes to $4k, but I've been buying as many as I can financially spare each paycheck as the stock has been down. If I get enough to get a Roadster, guess who's going to be broke and in a Roadster? xD
 
Let me dissolve you of the notion that TSLA longs are all altruistic.

Every last dime I'd make off the TSLA shares will be going into a Tesla purchase once I go back to the states. If Ark is right, then I can get a much better Tesla, and/or lower loan for it. I don't have enough stocks just yet to get a Roadster even if each stock goes to $4k, but I've been buying as many as I can financially spare each paycheck as the stock has been down. If I get enough to get a Roadster, guess who's going to be broke and in a Roadster? xD

:( Please re-read OP, didn't say all were. Thanks for your input.
 
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The SP has dropped about 100 dollars since I bought those Jan21 leaps, do I get a prize yet?

I always think back to that Jeff Bezos interview, in the somewhat early day of Amazon, he talked about how he kept seeing Amazon's SP go down while watching the balance sheet go up and it made no sense to him. This was a few years before the amazon stock explode upward. Hopefully TSLA does the same, except sooner than later.

You may have hit on the key difference between the two companies you are comparing.
 
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Also with all the anti-Rivian talk earlier, I hope they succeed. Need more than 1 horse pulling the EV train.

I also hope they succeed. We need EV trucks in America, because Trucks make up a HUGE portion of the vehicles sold (for all that 80% use the trucks, like, once or twice a year for truck purposes).

However, I'm not certain how I feel with Ford and them partnering. On one hand, they now have a very large company backing them, and that goes a huge way for logistics, and funding, and manufacturing, and everything else.

On the other hand, Ford has a heavy, HEAVY interest in keeping their F-number series going strong. Why would they put the best effort going forward to steal their own truck sales? I just don't see them doing that, so Rivian may be limited.
 
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I repeat: NEVER SELL PUTS. THE CONSEQUENCES CAN BE LIFE-CHANGING. This is an advice.
I don't see any real issue with selling Puts as long as you'd be happy with the options being exercised, you can comfortably buy all of the shares at the strike price, and you'd be good with holding onto the shares for the long run. You truly have to be good with buying the shares. You also have to be good with simply keeping the option premium and never owning the shares. Personally, I've used Puts as a way to sometimes buy stock at a discount.

I will say, though, that I sold the TSLA $240 5/31/19 Put in April and I'm glad that I bought it back when TSLA was on a strong but brief upward trajectory, as I was later able to buy shares at lower prices.
 
Listening to that Elon Musk interview yesterday he seemed so relaxed and focused as he ever has. There could be a poster of him walking forward with things blowing up behind him and people fighting each other as he pushes onward. That’s the sense I’m getting from him. I believe he has little doubt about how this plays out.

Small things I’ve noticed outside the FUD is searching Tesla on twitter lately there seems to be a huge increase in people and their friends taking delivery of Tesla’s. The Cuphead announcement oddly got people excited. Hearing about the truck for the first time and the press that small bit got shows that there is plenty of interest around the concept.

But back to Musk, he showed a focus on numbers yesterday in that interview that should inspire confidence. Any future ideas have seemingly been put on hold as he stated the number one goal is deliveries and hitting financial numbers. I have little doubt that if this is truly a focus of his then he will find a way to meet or exceed expectations for 2019. It’s been a long year so far for investors but I’m still behind the leadership being shown from Musk.
 
Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I would be worried if the teardowns were saying that it SHOULD cost as much as it currently does.

Tesla is well known for being able to reduce manufacturing costs; it's something they have a track record of doing successfully in the past. If teardown specialists think it should cost less, Tesla can eventually figure out how to get those savings. All the leaks have said that the production lines are still having constant changes (obviously improvements). Might take them until 2020 to get there, but they can deal with that.

And for the record I do expect them to reduce costs eventually, 8-10k still seems like a large hill to climb, it just stings extra right now with struggling production numbers. If they can achieve the level of demand I believe is out there in the next few quarters then its not a near term problem.
 
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Watching Apple WWDC, you feel the stark difference between Apple and Tesla marketing. With Apple, you feel like there's a bunch of superstars at the company, whereas with Tesla, you feel like Elon is the only person doing anything at Tesla.

Autonomy day was a decent step departure from that, but it was a bit too geeky and doesn't connect with the layperson.
Hmmm. Jobs was the superstar at previous dub dubs. Musk fits the bill at Tesla.

Though the Apple execs touting their stuff are stars to be sure, they’re not at that superstar level in my view.

Also Apple isn’t close anymore to serving up the innovation like Tesla is, though, yes, they are much slicker than pretty much any other company.
 
I also hope they succeed. We need EV trucks in America, because Trucks make up a HUGE portion of the vehicles sold (for all that 80% use the trucks, like, once or twice a year for truck purposes).

However, I'm not certain how I feel with Ford and them partnering. On one hand, they now have a very large company backing them, and that goes a huge way for logistics, and funding, and manufacturing, and everything else.

On the other hand, Ford has a heavy, HEAVY interest in keeping their F-number series going strong. Why would they put the best effort going forward to steal their own truck sales? I just don't see them doing that, so Rivian may be limited.

I agree on the trucks end and something to appeal to the mass market not a scifi build.

Ford wants a ROI, they aren't going to hinder their own investment. Who knows if theres a market they may even partner with Rivian in the future for drivetrains.