Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Sure, it was an exciting day today, but really, the SP is still a joke. How can this company with the very real potential to disrupt the largest industries on earth be valued at less than $100 billion?

It's way past time to wake up, Wall Street! Stop being distracted by sideshows of a car cash here, an inflammatory tweet there. Is Cathy Wood really the only analyst in the world who gets this? Really?? It's embarrassing. The incompetence is unfathomably vast. Anyone who professionally manages money who didn't buy TSLA at 180 should be taken out and shot.

Many of us have been blaming manipulators for the low SP, but I think the biggest culprit is a pervasive and flagrant demonstration of group think.

Desperately wanted: more independent thinkers among the investment class.
 
So, simple question -

FB: $561.22B
TSLA: $64.83B

...right now, which one is going to grow more in the next 5 years?

Who knows what FB will try and do in the next 5 years, but I don’t see them growing 10x in that time with the current regulatory climate changing.

Could Tesla grow 10x in the next 5 years? Maybe, but it depends on how deep the next recession is and whether energy prices rise or fall during that time. I would not bet against it.
 
Tim setting himself up to exit his position post Q4 delivery/production numbers and Q4 earnings lol. Saying he wants to see one more earnings report to confirm that Tesla has indeed turned the page. Ok Tim, I'm sure what listeners you do have will be happy to pay 420+/share after Q4 earnings instead of buying now.

Or I guess I should say wait until the stock is 420+ to cover their short position
 
Tim setting himself up to exit his position post Q4 delivery/production numbers and Q4 earnings lol. Saying he wants to see one more earnings report to confirm that Tesla has indeed turned the page. Ok Tim, I'm sure what listeners you do have will be happy to pay 420+/share after Q4 earnings instead of buying now.

unsurprisingly Tim's prior statement that he would get out at $370 was not brought up by anybody
 
Tim setting himself up to exit his position post Q4 delivery/production numbers and Q4 earnings lol. Saying he wants to see one more earnings report to confirm that Tesla has indeed turned the page. Ok Tim, I'm sure what listeners you do have will be happy to pay 420+/share after Q4 earnings instead of buying now.

Has Dim ever disclosed the size of his short (in general or specific terms)? It wouldn't surprise me if it's just a token short position of 100 shares or less just so he can say he's short without having to lie. It might even be one share. :(
 
There was a AH trade of 2.3 million shares at 16:04, not very far from one billion dollar in a single minute.

Never seen anything like this, any guesses?
Lol, your data source is messed up and/or laggy. The largest volume after hours was 344,816 shares from 16:01 to 16:03 according to NASDAQ: (click the 'grid' sprite top-right of the Chart to view the spread sheet)

This too was probably laggy reporting by NASDAQ, or processing time required for the heavy volume at the Close: 739,590 shares traded @ 16:00

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
Just spotted this - Tesla amongst others implicated.

First of all, child exploitation like this is deplorable and needs to be stopped. Of course it’s not exactly the purchasers fault, but the supplier and the poor morals of those printing from the cold labour.

with regards to Tesla, I thought they explicitly stated they didn’t use cobalt from DRC??

Tech firms sued over DR Congo cobalt mining deaths

Tesla does not use Cobalt from Congo. What they can't fully exclude though is that a supplier is cheating them with wrong certificates and anyway does deliver it. There are simply limits of compliance in countries like Congo where fraud may be involved. There is unfortunately a correlation between countries who are rich by raw materials, their political as well as legal systems. Many have the last two exists only on paper in particular if its in the 3rd world but not only there.

Looking at the list of companies accused this looks like a mixed bag of well know cooperations and in my understanding not even necessarily the ones that are using most of the cobalt of this world.

The question is why this comes out today and right now? I would not exclude this to be an attempt from shorts together with the media to create negative news. Such a trial has almost no chance to go anywhere but will make a lot of headlines and noise.

Some larger shorts got severely burned today and are desperate searching for damage control.
 
Lol, your data source is messed up and/or laggy. The largest volume after hours was 344,816 shares from 16:01 to 16:03 according to NASDAQ: (click the 'grid' sprite top-left of the Chart to view the spread sheet)

This too was probably laggy reporting by NASDAQ, or processing time required for the heavy volume at the Close: 739,590 shares traded @ 16:00

Cheers!

Would you agree that the indications today are of some whale taking a nibble? If so, the question is whether this was an appetizer or the main course.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Lessmog
unsurprisingly Tim's prior statement that he would get out at $370 was not brought up by anybody

Regular "Fast Money" host Melissa Lee would likely have mentioned it. Perhaps that's the reason for a substitute host on a day that TSLA closed above $380. BTW, Lee's husband is the highly rated Baird analyst Ben Kallo who has long been bullish on Tesla.

TipRanks - Kallo: https://www.tipranks.com/analysts/ben-kallo

EDIT: While Kallo still has a Buy rating on Tesla, he hasn't yet raised his Price Target from $355. Of course there hasn't been much time to get caught up with the price movement. Perhaps his wife is chiding him about that right now. ;)
 
Last edited:
Just spotted this - Tesla amongst others implicated.

First of all, child exploitation like this is deplorable and needs to be stopped. Of course it’s not exactly the purchasers fault, but the supplier and the poor morals of those printing from the cold labour.

with regards to Tesla, I thought they explicitly stated they didn’t use cobalt from DRC??

Tech firms sued over DR Congo cobalt mining deaths

AFAIK, they don't.

More detail about the lawsuit, from the bottom up:
  • They're representing families of children who claim they were injured or killed working at the Kamoto mine.
  • Kamoto is owned and run by Katanga
  • Katanga is a subsidiary 75% owned by Glencore, a UK company that is generally seen as the source of "legit, respectable" cobalt in the Congo. Glencore also owns the huge Mutanda mine that had to shut down this year due to the cobalt glut
  • Glencore sells to Umicore, in Brussels, which makes cathode materials.
  • Umicore has many partners. The lawsuit claims "Apple, Google, Tesla, Microsoft, and Dell". It appears however that they just simply chose "big name" companies that use batteries that they felt they could link to Umicore. They also focus on cobalt, even though these mines are primarily copper mines, and cobalt is just a byproduct.
I've tried to find any evidence that Tesla has ever bought directly from Umicore. I cannot find any. Tesla's only direct connection to Umicore that I can find is that Umicore is a Tesla battery recycling partner. E.g. cobalt flows in just the opposite direction, from Tesla to Umicore. If anyone can find anything suggesting otherwise, let me know.

A huge customer of Umicore is LG Chem. E.g. who supplies EV battery packs for almost everyone but Tesla. Tesla will, some number of months for now, be connected to Tesla via GF3 when the battery pack line there starts up. Tesla has also probably purchased LG Chem cells at various points in time for energy products.

Concerning the claims of their clients. Here's Kamoto:

1077630.jpg


2l-Image-Kamoto-Mine.jpg


Kamoto-mine-flotation-cells.jpg


kamoto-mine-ef0b8304-9c98-4682-afa6-d243ec79ee1-resize-750.jpeg


10908065323_bdcfe89cac_b-1.jpg


Kamoto is not artisanal mining. Which, as a reminder, looks like this:

DdmsqHZV0AEfW5d.jpg


cobalt-mine.jpg


Kamoto is a professional mine using modern equipment. It seems extremely unlikely to me that they would in any way use child labour.

HOWEVER, there's been huge problems with illegal artisanal mining operations at Kamoto - people who sneak into their property and mine it without their consent. Last summer the military was sent in to try to shut them own after dozens of artisanal miners died illegally mining Kamoto's propery when they undermined a terrace, causing it to collapse:

At least 41 artisanal miners killed in Glencore’s Congo mine collapse

It seems highly likely to me that these children were being employed in such illegal mining operations on Kamoto's property. It seems highly unlikely that Kamoto / Katanga / Glencore was involved themselves.
 
Last edited:
Tesla does not use Cobalt from Congo. What they can't fully exclude though is that a supplier is cheating them with wrong certificates and anyway does deliver it. There are simply limits of compliance in countries like Congo where fraud may be involved. There is unfortunately a correlation between countries who are rich by raw materials, their political as well as legal systems. Many have the last two exists only on paper in particular if its in the 3rd world but not only there.

Looking at the list of companies accused this looks like a mixed bag of well know cooperations and in my understanding not even necessarily the ones that are using most of the cobalt of this world.

The question is why this comes out today and right now? I would not exclude this to be an attempt from shorts together with the media to create negative news. Such a trial has almost no chance to go anywhere but will make a lot of headlines and noise.

Some larger shorts got severely burned today and are desperate searching for damage control.
I believe Tesla made a statement of using 0 cobalt in the next gen batteries, which we might hear about during battery investor day.

However, in China they might be using LG Chem for a while and not sure how those raw materials contracts were worked out.
If China is involved into procuring raw materials, then they are the ones buying cobalt no questions asked in DRC, so there may be unwanted exposure there.

Hoping Tesla can reduce cobalt to 0 asap.
 
Is Cathy Wood really the only analyst in the world who gets this?
Yeah, Cathy is not an 'analyst'. She is CEO of an Investment Management Company, employer of several top-notch analysts, and proud owner of a Tesla Model 3 P. :cool:

And I noticed that Ark Invest hasn't been selling lately as TSLA has run up. So she's a quick learner, too. :D

Cheers!
 
I believe Tesla made a statement of using 0 cobalt in the next gen batteries, which we might hear about during battery investor day.

However, in China they might be using LG Chem for a while and not sure how those raw materials contracts were worked out.
If China is involved into procuring raw materials, then they are the ones buying cobalt no questions asked in DRC, so there may be unwanted exposure there.

Hoping Tesla can reduce cobalt to 0 asap.
Then the media will paint Musk as a Scrooge depriving hardworking miners of high paying jobs.
 
I believe Tesla made a statement of using 0 cobalt in the next gen batteries, which we might hear about during battery investor day.

However, in China they might be using LG Chem for a while and not sure how those raw materials contracts were worked out.
If China is involved into procuring raw materials, then they are the ones buying cobalt no questions asked in DRC, so there may be unwanted exposure there.

Hoping Tesla can reduce cobalt to 0 asap.

It's quite true that China is by far the largest buyer of artisanal cobalt. They use "legitimate" mines in Congo run by companies like Dongfang to launder black market / artisanal supplies, which then makes it back to mainland China, where it's used in batteries (both for consumer electronics and EVs).

I don't know whether Tesla plans to just trust LG's own process for keeping its cells clean, or whether Tesla plans to put additional scrutiny on LG.

On the upside: the number of people involved in artisanal cobalt mining is estimated to have crashed this year, alongside the price in cobalt.
 
This.

Holding through the rough patches and being down a painful amount, I would tell myself that shouldering the pain is part of my contribution and small compared to effort the folks at Tesla have put in.

As a result, I also knew I won’t feel one damn bit guilty for the outsize gains we longs will enjoy in coming years no matter what anyone might say. :)

One up from that is to plan it so that you are content with how your immediate financial needs are covered and you're able to hit that buy button even if your investment account is way in the red. At least for me (and I'm guessing for most) It's much easier to hold off on cashing in when you're already winning compared to buying when everything seems grim. But if you don't do the latter you're not likely to enjoy the former.
 
Has Dim ever disclosed the size of his short (in general or specific terms)? It wouldn't surprise me if it's just a token short position of 100 shares or less just so he can say he's short without having to lie. It might even be one share. :(
Not the way he was shaking on camera back in November. That's a dead man walkin' right there. I wouldn't be surprised if he's holding for the Mob. Good luck, Timmy. :rolleyes: